Scott McClellan....WAY TO GO!!

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Oh really?? OK, but , don't tell my friends.....

I'm racist? Please don't tell my boyfriend,because he is Black. And there are two Black teens that live here with me most of the time.

You really are out of your mind Oxy. And your ranting proves it.

Have fun at church tomorrow dear. <:
 
"I'm racist? Please don't tell my boyfriend,because he is Black. And there are two Black teens that live here with me most of the time."

Exactly my point the whole time, rick.

Because you're white, but you've got a thing going on, living a life in a chosen black context, yet you can't step outside your own context for five minutes and realize that you've stereotyped blacks into "black churches" and subtly demonized the "white church" in the process, but YOU can't claim discrimination or privilege, and you can't imagine blacks worshipping in the "white church" that exists only within your head!

You ARE racist toward whites, and you don't even have a clue.

A racist can have a partner of a different race, so who you get with is hardly any sort of a litmus test!

Meanwhile, you are accepted by all. I've never seen anyone on this board make any racially hateful comment, and I've never seen it in one single email I've ever received from folks here.

Don't you think it's YOU who needs to check yourself, instead of telling an actual congregant of that "white" church that blacks don't go there?

Now, enjoy your evening.
 
Are we discussing religion and politics? In the same breath? A Black Pope? How about a Palestinian Pope? How about an Abroginese Rabbi? Would the Jesuit Japanese revolt in Jerusalem? Be careful of the Gestalt in Gstad. Presbetarians may rule Phoenix, but we say Shalom in Scottsdale, and back home in Short Hills.
Rednecks are in the Bronx, but Russians are prevailing, once they speak English and vote, whose political coat will they be trailing?
 
I won't buy his book~

He also LIED to the American people and now he is using this book as a way to cash in.
I do believe the accusations made in the book against Cheney,Rove and Libby, but McClellan lacks credibility and we shouldn't reward him for that by buying his book.
That whole administration,with the exception of Colin Powell, is corrupt to the core. McClellan included...

My 2 cents....
 
I believe,

that if McClellan had half the conscience he claims he had, he would have not waited until so much of the damage was done, and so many military and civilian deaths had occurred.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
So far I haven't heard anything from McClellan's book that we didn't already know.

It's been established that within three months of his taking office in Jan. 2001, Bush (well, Cheney actually) had already decided to invade Iraq. Note this was at least six months BEFORE the 9/11 attack. See article below.

All the rest was (and still is) just PR.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33642
 
Nope...

Won't buy it here either. I need my 24.95 or whatever the hell the price of the book is for something more pertinent. I merely want to scan through and see what else he has to say.

And MaytagBEAR, you are absolutely RIGHT!! These things should have been brought out in the open way before he wrote a book.
 
Does this whole thing smack of sensationalism or what??? Like any of this shit is news at this point?? The guy has no morals or character whatsoever. And certainly no credibility at this point.
 
Wow I have to agree as well. After seeing MSNBC and other networks and what they are saying about the book it comes as no surprise at all. I think he wrote the book not so much to get back at the Bush Administration ...more like to clear his conscience. You have to remember he was only told what he needed to know to do his job as being the White House mouthpiece. More will come out and it will be very damning to Bush and Cheney. The damage has been done and a war that was for what? Oil? To spread "democracy" to an area of the world that doesnt want it? And you have to remember that Bush talks to God and God talks to him....scary aint it. And God told Bush that its his destiny to liberate Middle East nations...when I heard that I knew he was a nut job.
 
Everyone knows the Bush Administration is corrupt to the core. Scott McClellan is nothing but an opportunist trying to sell books.

What the news media should be focusing on is why Obama now has ANOTHER anti white, racist pastor who up until several days ago, worked on his campaign.I seriously doubt the Obama News Network, (MSNBC) will do that.

Last Sunday, Father Michael Pfleger (a longtime friend and associate of Senator Obama) mocked and degraded Hillary Clinton at Obama's church in Chicago.

"I really believe that she just always thought, 'This is mine! I'm Bill's wife, I'm white, and this is mine! I just gotta get up and step into the plate.' And then out of nowhere came, 'Hey, I'm Barack Obama,' and she said, 'Oh, damn! Where did you come from? I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show! She wasn't the only one crying, there was a whole lot of white people crying!"

This rhetoric is beyond compreshension. It deeply saddens me that the Democratic Primary has come to this. Obama consistently talks about judgment,especially when it comes to Clinton and McCain's war vote. Where is Obama's judgment when it comes to the people he associates himself with? ex: Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Rev. Louis Farrakhan, William Ayers, and now Father Michael Pfleger. I am so disgusted with the Democratic Party that I am actually considering switching my party to independent. Obama supporters better realize that the Clinton supporters are VERY angry about how Hillary has been treated. You cannot win the General Election without us. Recent polls indicate that as many as 25 percent of Clinton supporters will defect to McCain in November. I can certainly say I am one of them.
 
Scott McClellan and the "Liberal Media"

Well, I am no fan of Scott McClellan, or anyone else from the Bush Administation. However at least McClellan is keeping it real with this book. For what reason, I do not know. I would guess it is beause that most people really do know that Bush and Co. have made a huge mess of things, and are to blame for the death of millions of people. What a horrible way to learn, and what a high price to pay!

Shane, I really wish that you did not feel the way you do about Obama. He should not be judged by what someone else says.
I understand that your favourite is not winning, but that is not a good enough reason to vote for John McSame.
As I told you in an email that you sent me, I am for Obama. And I voted for Obama in the Indiana Primary. Hillary won in Indiana, but I am not pissed off at Hillary because she won. It would not make that much of a difference which one ends up winning, as there is not that much difference in their policies. There are however big differences between Hillary and Obama, or John McSame.
Whoever wins the primary on the democratic side is who I will vote for this fall.
 
Hi Rick~

I do respect the fact that you support Obama,that is certainly your right to do so. As far as Obama being judged for what other people say, it all comes down to Obama's judgment. Somebody running for the most powerful office in the world needs to exercise a great deal of judgment. The fact that he sat in that church for 20 years and was brought to Christianity by Rev. Wright, leads me to believe he is not being forthright with the American public about not knowing Wright's bigoted views.

It seems everyone tied to Obama or his church thinks the same as Wright.
On the other hand, I don't view John McCain as John McSame or Bush's third term. I do have issues with McCain's support for the war, but that is my only issue with him. McCain is not afraid to take on the Republican Party when need be and often votes with Democrats.
I respect you alot Rick and I am glad we are able to have a spirited and respectful debate on this very important issue.

May the best, most qualified candidate win.

Shane
 
I have always thought that McCain was a war hawk. My concern is that the tends to think of himself as the next Ronald Reagan. And we remember that one, tons of build up of defense while taking away services from the people.
But I have to hand it to McCain in one area, he is telling the people exactly what he intends to do. So he appears to be truthful, but then again there are all those behind closed doors fund raising dinners with Bush at the helm of them.

I still think that Bush was just the idiot they put up there with Cheney pulling the strings behind the scenes.
 
"McCain is not afraid to take on the Republican Party when need be and often votes with Democrats. "

Andrew, you might want to research McCain's voting record. The media likes to weave a story about how he is a "maverick", but in reality, nothing could be farther from the truth. He tows the party line consistently, only straying when he knows the vote will come out in favor of the GOP.

That's fine if that's what you want in a candidate, but don't be fooled that he is anything even resembling a moderate or independent thinker - and he is no friend to the GLBT community, as his sniveling performance on Ellen clearly shows. Don't forget that his "spiritual advisor" said that Katrina was God's punishment on New Orleans for having a gay pride parade. (If that's true, his God must have a lousy aim - the gay part of New Orleans was left relatively intact)

As far as Obama and his religion goes: Being a non-religious person, it's hard for me to understand this controversy. It seems pretty contrived to me. We keep hearing the same sound byte over and over and over. Surely the man said more than that in his years of preaching - not that I really have any problem with what he had to say - you can love your country and still criticize it.

It would seem to me that most intelligent, reasonable people understand that you and your minister won't see eye to eye on everything. I think it's a pretty weak argument to expect a person to be a reflection of their clergy.
 
The Black church has it's share of problems. I do not agree with much of what they say. However, there is still truth about what is said concerning both lack of equality and racisim. If you do not live within the Black Community, you would not realize how "alive and well" both are.
 
Some people still believe politicians are divided into "good" and "bad", instead of "amoral" and "amoral", and therefore have not learned their lesson yet.

All this stuff about Pfleger from Fox News and MSNBC (aka The Bush Channel and Ministry of Propaganda) has only one purpose: to divert public attention away from John McCain's outrageous waffling on acceptance of endorsements from people like Rod Parsley and John Hagee. Matt Taibbi's recently released book called "The Great Derangement" goes into a lot of detail about these so-called Christian churches.

If you haven't already, check out this interview with Matt Taibbi from a few weeks ago. Barack and Hillary certainly have their petty resentmets toward each other, but for all practical purposes they represent the same set of positions on most issues.
 
Devil's Advocate...

...Scott McClellan is taking a lot of heat from a lot of quarters. I'd like to offer an alternative view.

It's very easy for most of us to criticise the current Administration from the relative safety of the Internet, under screen names, and armed with nothing but our opinions.

It's a lot harder to make a stand from the inside, I think. There are a lot of power and control issues; you can end up with career damage at best and a flurry of subpoenas at worst. Anyone taking on this or any other White House might well want some time to think about the ramifications of the decision to do so, to say nothing of checking- extensively- with a very competent attorney. There are already quite a few people in Congress wanting to haul McClellan in for questioning. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I would find that prospect more than a bit unnerving. Yet McClellan had to have known that would be a side effect of his book's release. Could it just be possible that he believes strongly enough in what he's done to take the legal risks he's facing?

I guess what I'm saying here is that I don't think any of us can know the pressures McClellan was under when he was in White House circles, the pressures he's been under since, or the ones he'll have to withstand soon. I intend to take a "wait and see" approach to his revelations. History will vindicate him, or it will not.
 
"All this stuff about Pfleger from Fox News and MSNBC (aka The Bush Channel and Ministry of Propaganda) has only one purpose: to divert public attention away from John McCain's outrageous waffling on acceptance of endorsements from people like Rod Parsley and John Hagee."

Jeff, the difference between Obama and McCain on this issue is that John McCain simply sought endorsements from Hagee and Parsley to curry favor with the evangelicals. He was not in any way personally involved with those churches.

Barack Obama marched himself into a black-supremacist church of vicious, hate for over twenty years with his wife, brought his children along for the ride, and then tried to convince America that, over twenty years' time, he hadn't had any inkling regarding his minister's radical, extremist "black liberation theology", which is about reparations for slavery and subjugation of the white race, bottom line.

I've been in churches of all sizes, shapes, colors, flavors, and am a member of a normative parish of the same sort Pfleger claims to be of. I'll skip my opinion of whether or not the Archdiocese is operating under wise counsel to continue to allow this piece of filth to represent the image of Catholicism for the city of Chicago, but I assure you I've never witnessed any priest, minister, or even rabbi carry on like that, racially savaging a true Presidential candidate from a pulpit, or whipping up a crowd into a frenzy like Pfleger did, egging on Moss's obviously unhinged congregants into near-violent convulsions.

Pfleger is not a man of God. Neither is Wright, or Hagee.

This is all a front for an entirely different agenda that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, and they will never meet, they were not meant to meet, and we will NEVER come together as long as these pimps continue to have influence over the ghettoes (and, now, the latte shops).

Unity is not all it is cracked up to be and, if that's what I'm expected to stand in solidarity with, I'll choose the "uneducated, clingy" option.

Safer that way, and in more ways than one.

Lastly, this is why I like my politics over HERE (points to one end of the table), and my religion over HERE (points to other).

That way, both may thrive and prosper.
 
Wright has been demonized for political purposes, and your assertion that he somehow advocates "subjugation of the white race" -- whatever THAT means -- is truly outrageous. You've been watching MSNBC and falling for Karl Rove's standard MO way too much. Obama's political enemies first tried pigeonholing him as a radical, and when that failed they went after his childhood pastor instead.

Unlike Pfleger, Parsley and Hagee, Jeremiah Wright is a highly and widely respected theologian. He has SEVEN honorary doctorate degrees (including one from Colgate University) as well as a Rockefeller Fellowship. And if Wright's remarks are taken in context, which The Bush Channel and Ministry of Propaganda are careful never to do, one is hard pressed to find anything objectionable about them. He's railed against U.S. foreign policy since the end of WWII, the same way anyone with a conscience should IMO, he's railed against the double standard that still exists today for blacks in America's judicial system (disproportionate numbers of innocent black people winding up on death row), etc. And so far his biggest critic has been Barack Obama, for comments Wright made about Hillary Clinton.
 
Oxy, Wright is retired. What would be the point of leaving his church?

Besides, anyone who knows anything about the UCC knows that it is not a "black-supremacist church of vicious hate". Overall, it's a predominantly white denomination, and known mainly for its mainstream theology. They share communion with the Presbyterians and some Lutherans. You might be confusing UCC with the "Church of Christ" monike, which is only a loose affiliation of churches, and can be a lot more fundamentalist in nature.

And let's face it - we don't know how many times Obama even went to church there (not that it's anyone's business at all) As anyone with even a passing acquaintance with religion knows, there's a lot of people who only show up on the big holidays. Look at Bush, for all his much talked about religious views, he hardly ever goes to church.

As for Father Pfleger and St Sabina's, no one can question the good works he has done at that parish, and in that neighborhood. He's an old-school Catholic priest in the truest sense of the word, much like the priest we had when I was growing up: A man with a strong social conscience and a personality that could occasionally ruffle some feathers, but he represents the finest traditions of that faith - namely the quest for social justice and peaceful co-existence.

But back to McClellan. I don't bear him any ill will. I agree it took him too long to come clean, but I've heard it said that confession is good for the soul.

My, all this relgion talk. I minored in comparative religion/theology in College, and it's all coming back to me now. If I'm not careful, I'll start prattling along about dispensations and schisms. But I think we are all better off when we leave any "Odium theologicum" to discussions of the various merits and failings of our favorite appliances.

OK, I'll stop with the Latin now. That's about all I remember of it anyway. :-)
 
Do you agree with everything your church teaches Scott? If not, why don't you leave your church?

The Black people were not welcome in the White church. They were made to sit in the back, and looked down on. So the Black church was born as the people were not welcome at the White church.

As I said before, I do not agree with much of what the Black church says. That being said, I do not agree with most of what the White church teaches. So I choose not to attend either.

I was born and raised catholic (White church), so I know all about your faith. What they teach, and preach, the members do not follow. That goes for birth control, sex only when a married couple want to have a child, etc.Being gay a huge sin. Come to think about it, the catholic church seems to think they are experts on members (and non members) sex lives. Yet the members keep coming back every Sunday, even though they do not follow the rules set by their church. So why don't the members of the White church leave?
I think it is because of the promise of ever lasting life. People try to separate the junk teachings from what is usable from most any church, Black or White. People that attend church feel as though they must attend services to be able to go to Gods Kingdom when they pass away. I do not think that this is true. I feel that if one has a relationship with God they will enter Gods Kingdom when they pass away.

I do not attend any church, but I try to give people a break that do attend. (unless it is a really screwed up chruch like westboro)
Members are not should not be blamed for what "junk" the church preaches.

Now can you imagine what the Right would be saying about Obama if he were like me, and did not attend services at all??? It really is a no win situation for the Left, as the Right has held the "rights" to christian church for the last few decades.
 
Being Catholic, I believe that the reason people keep coming to mass is because in their religion classes and in their upbringing, we are taught that Catholics MUST go to church every Sunday while Protestant people don't necessarily HAVE to go to church. It was never made clear to me why we have that difference and I find it is hard to get an answer why that is, but my father always made sure we got to church on Sunday even when we were tired and did not feel well because it was "the right thing to do" and how dare I ask for an explanation. Of course, now I will not go if I do not feel well but do go sometimes. And you are right, the Catholic church is not comfortable with the gay community.
 
"Oxy, Wright is retired. What would be the point of leaving his church?"

Moss, guests like Pfleger, and those fine gentlemen whooping and hollering at the specter of Hillary being smeared, IN CHURCH, would be enough for any decent and common-sense public servant to pick up and leave, but he doesn't, because he SELECTED this church, because these black-supremacist preachers mirror his views.

"Besides, anyone who knows anything about the UCC knows that it is not a "black-supremacist church of vicious hate"."

The UCC is not a church. It is a DENOMINATION, a very progressive one, who, for whatever reason, permitted Trinity, which is the specific black-supremacist church, to operate under their umbrella.

The UCC is a very "white" denomination. They probably need Trinity to keep a presence in that neighborhood, and Trinity needs the UCC in order to lend respectability to their radical, extremist agenda (the UCC is very "progressive" in outlook).

"And let's face it - we don't know how many times Obama even went to church there (not that it's anyone's business at all)"

Utter bullshit. He claimed to be a regular, longtime congregant, especially when it was to his advantage to say so.

For over TWENTY YEARS. He cites each of these nutjobs specifically as "spiritual advisors", and when you're running for the presidency of the United States, you are totally unvetted, and your church espouses the sort of anti-white rhetoric it does on a constant, consistent basis, it is EVERY bit my business to know.

This liar claims to oppose marriage equality for religious reasons....when the UCC's official marriage policy is extremely gay-positive and inclusive.

I don't NEED to ask what Trinity members really think about gays.

"As for Father Pfleger and St Sabina's, no one can question the good works he has done at that parish, and in that neighborhood. He's an old-school Catholic priest in the truest sense of the word, much like the priest we had when I was growing up: A man with a strong social conscience and a personality that could occasionally ruffle some feathers, but he represents the finest traditions of that faith - namely the quest for social justice and peaceful co-existence."

Dan? He's a nutcase. He needs to STFU about the white people he hates so much, and the archdiocese needs to boot his ass post-haste, because, much like Barry, he's not about the people, he's not about values, and he sure as hell isn't about Jesus Christ.

He's about getting his mug on the screen, gathering political power in the filthiest political city in America, and building street cred amongst the black community while disrespecting his own.

Paying prostitutes their hourly rate to come in off the street and lecturing them is not my idea of community activism.

I'm not "confused" one iota. I've grown up and lived most of my life involved with the church, in predominately black communities, and I have NEVER heard of a priest like this.

There is no such thing as a "Black" Catholic church, either...it's a contradiction in terms. You're there to worship Jesus Christ, not debate politics, and everybody just needs to leave their special-interest hangups at the door, gays included.
 
Who said there was a Black catholic church?? I said that I was born and raised as a catholic, which is a White church. Most Black churches are baptist, btw.

It is funny to me how many hard feelings(not including all out wars) there are about churches. Everyone tries to play it that their church is the true and correct one, and that the other guys church is all wrong. I am so glad I left the church. It was one of the best things that I ever did for myself. I am cool with that! <:
 
hmm, whats worse, criticizing/blaming "white people" or supporting a war guaranteed to result in lost human lives??

(duckz and runz!)
 

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