Seeking advice for kd12.

[aloysius]

I have a Kitchenaid by Hobart kd12 dishwasher that was purchased by my parents in or about 1960. It still works and is in as close to perfect condition as one could imagine. However the p-trap cracked and when we tried to replace it we had difficulty removing the p-trap from where it attaches to the dishwasher. When a plumber was able to remove the p-trap he informed me the part of the machine that attaches to the p-trap had deteriorated so that a new p-trap could not be attached. I would like to keep the machine because it still works otherwise. It is in beautiful condition and matches the rest of the 1960 appliances and range hood that still work with a unique and very classy bronze-burst type of coloration.

I do not know the name of the deteriorated part but is there any way to fix the problem other than trying to find an old machine and scavenge the part? Would it be better to simply replace the machine and keep it in storage until I can find a way to fix it? I do not want to let it go because it is very cool and was purchased by my parents. I value those sort of things. If I keep the house I want to keep all the appliances the way they are now. If I sell the house I want to remove the appliances and install them in my house. In the meantime the house needs a working dishwasher.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[gansky1]

I had a KDC-14 dishwasher with the same problem. The cast iron drain outlet was rusted away so I just clamped a hose onto it and then onto an electric pump to drain into a garbage disposer, but you could connect the hose onto an extension that is fitted to a new p-trap as well. It may take a little reconfiguring of the existing drain parts and a trip (or two) to the hardware store, but this doesn't have to be the end of the machine.

 

[aloysius]

Thank you for your advice. As soon as I get the time I will try what you have suggested. If I run into any more problems with the drain repair or anything else that comes up in the process I may have to call on you again for help.

 

[stevet]

Gravity (of the situation)Drain woes

As you probably know already, your machine is a gravity drain unit, so if you can get a Fernco no-hub rubber coupling on what is left of the drain valve and then plumb in a new trap you will be set. If you can drop the drain pipe down thru the floor into your basement, you can install the trap there too and then connect up to the waste to get rid of the water in the dishwasher. The other choice would be to raise the machine up higher and do the coupling and trap under the machine and then to the drain in the wall or sink.

There are a few Draion valves left but not easily gotten. And at over 300 bucks apiece, they come with a hefty price tag.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[kb0nes]

Drain valve repair

Steve or Greg,

Curious about repair of the drain valves. I'm assuming its cast iron? Perhaps it would be possible to braze a spud into effecting a permenant repair. Do either of you happen to have a photo of a drain valve?

Phil

 

[jetcone]

Here's what a really

bad one looks like:

 

[kb0nes]

Jon,

Could you describe what I'm seeing in your photo? Its a bit too much of a close-up to discern

What is the black canister at the bottom (the one with the crusty seam), is that the drain valve itself?

The hose in the right foreground that runs up to? The tub??

The rusty fitting on this particular machine is close to beyond repair. There needs to be a bit of something there to attach anything new to. What exactly causes them to rust this badly? Last I checked they don't salt the roads under a dishwasher!

 

[kenmore71]

The drain valve is the rusted nastiness front and center. The "L" shaped piece of aluminum is connected to the drain solenoid.

The black canister is the drain pump - this is from a pump model. A non-pump model would simply have the gravity drain connected where the pump begins.

 

[gansky1]

The black canister is actually the sump, only found on "P" or pump models - a "trap" of sorts to protect the pump that mounts directly to the bottom of the motor.

When I had the KDC-14 (gravity drain) in my kitchen, I wired in an electric pump that ran continuously with the motor and attached the 1 1/2" hose to the drain valve on the machine and the other to the electric pump.

 

[kenmore71]

Ooops. My bad.

 

[toploader55]

Hi Greg.

Would you by any chance have a pic or two of the Pump set up for the KDC-14 Gravity Drain ?

Thanks.

 

[aloysius]

Thank you all for your responses. I am going to get a Fernco no-hub rubber coupling today as was suggested by stevet above. When I called Lowes they suggested a 1 1/2 inch coupling for a space under the dishwasher and above the floor. I feel fairly confident this should do the trick. I just hope I do not create any other problems in the process.

I will let you all know how it turns out.

 

[kenmore71]

I don't have a picture, but here is a diagram from the service manual showing a cross-section of the KD-12 gravity drain setup.

 

[kb0nes]

So why did the drain valves end up rusting so badly? Was it leakage through the pull rod hole or what?? I'm curious if these soon to be "Unobtanium" parts could be restored.

At the least it seems ones in good condition could be bead blasted and painted to extend their lives.

 

[combo52]

Early KA DWs

The drain valve that Jon pictured usally do not get that rusty, the style he pictured was used on the KD-11 through 14 DWs.

 

Last night I parted out two gravity drain KD-10 KA DWs that I have had for years. I have wanted a good example of a KD-10 for years and Robin [ crestwood52 ]gave me a great deal on one that she had that was in excellent condition. So I parted out the other two saving parts for ours and to help anyone else out that needs parts.

 

For anyone that never got to see a Kitchenaid KD-10 Dishwasher up close you have truly missed seeing the most overbuilt major appliance built for the home. And it is easy to see that this is a commercial quality Dishwasher that could do at least 25,000 loads and still keep going. Even though Hobart always built a sturdy DW for home use the KD-10 is just amazing, they really should have just quit building DWs after this one.

 

[aloysius]

Photograph of the problem.

Here is a photograph of the rusted drain outlet. The photo also shows the remaining portion of the original p-trap where the j-trap connects.

It appears as though there is a rusted tube that fits inside the cast iron drain outlet. Over the tube is the nut. When I feel inside the tube I do not feel the end of the tube no matter how high I go. This is something with which I am totally unfamiliar but it seems as though if the tube could be removed a new tube could be inserted and solve the problem. Maybe that is not possible and that is why there is a problem.

To use a coupler or clamp anything on the rusted tube I will need to remove that nut on he rusted tube. How should I do that because it will not come off by hand? Should I force the nut off some way? When I get the nut removed then I cut an extension tube to fit and use the coupler to attach the extension tube to the rusted tube? (Or do I need to attach a hose to the rusted tube with a clamp and then attach the extension to the hose as suggested in the first reply by gansky1?) After that do I attach the trap to the extension?

On the remaining portion of the p-trap there seems to be another problem. The remaining pipe has a nut on it and therefore needs a j-trap with male threads on that side. All of the j-traps I have looked at so far have female ends with a nut on that side. I guess I could remove the rest of that existing p-trap and install an entirely new p-trap but to get to that I will have to remove the entire dishwasher. That is getting into more work than I anticipated. The basement is finished with a finished ceiling so that is not an option. Are there appropriate J-traps out there and I just need to look harder. On the other hand is it possible if I buy an entirely new p-trap would that j-trap have male threads on the opposite side of the dishwasher? Or should I go ahead and remove the dishwasher and try to replace the entire p-trap.

I am not a plumber and I hope I am explaining the problem clearly. It looks to me like it should be fairly simple to fix - but I would not know.

Thank you for any help you can give.

 

[combo52]

Drain valve on A KD -12 DW

You need to completely remove the chrome ring that is still on the drain valve, this ring is part of the old U trap and gets thrown away. Then we-you can see how bad the drain valve really is, I think as others have suggested this will be able to be saved without replacing the drain valve. John.

 

[stevet]

Picture worth a thousand words??

Jeff,

You can salvage the drain valve as shown with a setup like this.
As John mentioned, get the Chrome nut off the valve first but first soak it with PB Blaster and then work it off with your hands. Don't Wrench it off as it may take more of the valve metal with it. You want as much of the old valve as you can keep on it.

Then use a Fernco Coupling and set it up like the picture. Try to keep the trap as low as possible so you dont have water standing in the valve. I think that was the problem where the tailpiece of the valve was sitting in the trap water. So cut the new plastic tailpiece to achieve that result. Connect the long swivel of the new trap to either the connection on the pipe with another fernco coupling or a female to female coupling or, if you can remove the old pipe, then a new slip nut and bushing.

You may want to try purchasing a spare valve thru your Local Hobart Office or service agency, The part number is 77818. It is expensive..very expensive. Don't mention Kitchenaid at all. They will not get it for you! There are some available at some of the Service Agents so they may have to bring it in from one of them.
If they ask for a model number, tell them it is for a Model UM dishwasher.

Let us know how you progress with the project.
Your other choice is to find someone who stipped a pump model machine and has kept the valve, water trap, pressure switch and pump that attached to the bottom of the motor and convert your machine to a pump drain. Then you can connect it right up to you sink drain!

 

[aloysius]

I thought I would let you know how I resolved the problem. I would have let you know sooner but I have had a number of emergencies over the past ten days.

The first photo shows the drain pipe with the nut removed.