xpanam
Well-known member
Looks to be in great shape! Dose anyone know why we haven't gone back to this technology?
http://palmsprings.craigslist.org/app/3167220347.html
http://palmsprings.craigslist.org/app/3167220347.html
Servel Gas Refrigerator
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danemodsandy
Well-known member
Because.....
....Gas absorption technology does not cool as effectively as electric compression technology. Gas refrigerators were notorious for having freezer sections that didn't keep ice cream hard.
They were also a "hard" installation, requiring gas plumbing and a trained and/or licensed installer, whereas you wheel an electric fridge into place and plug 'er in. You couldn't move a gas reefer for cleaning as readily as an electric one.
There is also a safety factor. Gas refrigerators emit carbon monoxide, and if they are not properly maintained, the amount of carbon monoxide can be hazardous or even lethal.
The few gas fridge brands sold today are recommended for exterior venting, which helps with the carbon monoxide problem, but the other problems more or less remain.
....Gas absorption technology does not cool as effectively as electric compression technology. Gas refrigerators were notorious for having freezer sections that didn't keep ice cream hard.
They were also a "hard" installation, requiring gas plumbing and a trained and/or licensed installer, whereas you wheel an electric fridge into place and plug 'er in. You couldn't move a gas reefer for cleaning as readily as an electric one.
There is also a safety factor. Gas refrigerators emit carbon monoxide, and if they are not properly maintained, the amount of carbon monoxide can be hazardous or even lethal.
The few gas fridge brands sold today are recommended for exterior venting, which helps with the carbon monoxide problem, but the other problems more or less remain.
arbilab
Well-known member
Two other things changed since the heyday of Servel. Houses got a lot more sealed so CO became a bigger issue. The price of natgas tripled and processed gas more than that.
Stories abound that absorption freezers don't work well. I can't verify that. A friend had one in an RV. I put a large jug of water in it overnight for the next day's drive home and it froze just sitting NEXT TO the freezer not in it.
Stories abound that absorption freezers don't work well. I can't verify that. A friend had one in an RV. I put a large jug of water in it overnight for the next day's drive home and it froze just sitting NEXT TO the freezer not in it.
If you look through motor home publications and see the toys they sell, you will see battery operated fans for the refrigerators because the cooling, either adsorption or electo-thermal, is not powerful enough to sustain reliable convection currents in the refrigerators so a fan is needed to direct the cold air at the bottom of the box up toward the top to keep temperatures even.
Part of the problem with the inefficiency of the adsorption refrigeration system is that it results in great amounts of heat being given off compared to that of an efficient compressor. Keeping a large box cool is very difficult and there is almost no reserve cooling capacity. John and Jeff told me of the last WP gas frost free box running the compressor constantly and cutting in electrical heat to melt the frost periodically while the refrigeration continued. The BTU input for these large boxes was more like an oven burner than a pilot light and they had huge vents across the top back of the box to vent the heat. Unless you were living in a climate that made an AGA cooker desireable, you did not want one of these in a typical kitchen.
If anybody here has any experience with gas central air conditioning, its complexity, maintenance, dependability and cost, you will know the challenges of adsorption refrigeration. The old Servel 8 or 9 cu. ft boxes with a small freezer just at or slightly below freezing, held the interior at temperatures of around 40-45 degrees F, a a far cry from today's fresh food temperatures in the mid to low 30s F which is why old food safety guidelines allowed such short times for fresh food to be stored before it had to be disposed of.
Part of the problem with the inefficiency of the adsorption refrigeration system is that it results in great amounts of heat being given off compared to that of an efficient compressor. Keeping a large box cool is very difficult and there is almost no reserve cooling capacity. John and Jeff told me of the last WP gas frost free box running the compressor constantly and cutting in electrical heat to melt the frost periodically while the refrigeration continued. The BTU input for these large boxes was more like an oven burner than a pilot light and they had huge vents across the top back of the box to vent the heat. Unless you were living in a climate that made an AGA cooker desireable, you did not want one of these in a typical kitchen.
If anybody here has any experience with gas central air conditioning, its complexity, maintenance, dependability and cost, you will know the challenges of adsorption refrigeration. The old Servel 8 or 9 cu. ft boxes with a small freezer just at or slightly below freezing, held the interior at temperatures of around 40-45 degrees F, a a far cry from today's fresh food temperatures in the mid to low 30s F which is why old food safety guidelines allowed such short times for fresh food to be stored before it had to be disposed of.
My Amish friends...
...have a natural gas refrigerator, and while they are pleased with it, the heat given off by the unit prompted them to move it to a mud room, off of the kitchen.
When I was a kid, back in the 1960s, we had two neighbors who each had the very same Servel 'fridge in their kitchens. The photos bring back memories!
Joe
...have a natural gas refrigerator, and while they are pleased with it, the heat given off by the unit prompted them to move it to a mud room, off of the kitchen.
When I was a kid, back in the 1960s, we had two neighbors who each had the very same Servel 'fridge in their kitchens. The photos bring back memories!
Joe
You look at those prices and can see that the fumes have caused brain damage.
norgeway
Well-known member
Ha Ha Ha !!!
Me thinks they must have put there head in a bag and then put it over the flue!!!LOL!!Once again, my Aunt Georgie was right..Visions of grandeur!!!
Me thinks they must have put there head in a bag and then put it over the flue!!!LOL!!Once again, my Aunt Georgie was right..Visions of grandeur!!!
arbilab
Well-known member
Note that the RV models vent heat OUTSIDE. Sure wouldn't want to pay to suck that heat from a home with airconditioning.
Gas fridges are still appropriate for RVs as they run on electric or gas, whichever is available/cheaper. Takes a fairly substantial generator running pretty much all the time to drive a compressor fridge off-grid.
Gas fridges are still appropriate for RVs as they run on electric or gas, whichever is available/cheaper. Takes a fairly substantial generator running pretty much all the time to drive a compressor fridge off-grid.
xpanam
Well-known member
Hey thanks for the info
Now I understand. But I have another ? Why isn't there a problem with a gas stove in the house and CO ?
Now I understand. But I have another ? Why isn't there a problem with a gas stove in the house and CO ?
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
Servels were actually the subject of a recall due to co2. There used to be a bounty on them. You had to either certify the gas burner assy was destroyed, rendering the unit dead, or send the assy in to them to receive your reward. The settlement set up a fund to pay the bounties out of until the money was gone.
RCD
RCD
Properly operating gas burners do not produce CO, but CO2, which can kill you, but is not as letha insmall concentrations as CO. Gas stoves should not be operated without adequate ventilation, either open windows or a ventilation system. The old Servels can kill because their little burner can get clogged with dirt & dust leading to production of CO, especially in small, infrequently used cabins and such. They will also run on kerosene. Mary Martin had a place in Brazil, I think, with a place beside it for Janet Gaynor, her lover (both had gay husbands) and the houses had no electricity so they had kerosene Servels. She wrote about how, from time to time, the refrigeration system would develop a bubble which prevented circulation of the refrigerant. The only way to fix it was to turn the refrigerator upside down and pound on it to "burp" it and expel the bubble.
arbilab
Well-known member
Gas stoves DO have a CO problem. Mine gave me a headache roasting turkey unless I ran the vent hood which exhausted to the roof.
Burning natural gas produces a bouquet of by-products, any one of which could give you a HA. A properly adjusted burner that is not producing yellow flame or a roaring sound should not be producing CO.
I have written before about the EPA scientist taking air quality readings at a busy 14th St., NW intersection in DC at rush hour. His meter was in an attache case type enclosure. When he was through, he went home without turning it off. He entered his dwelling, set the case on the floor in the kitchen, turned on the gas oven and went to his bedroom to change clothes. By the time he returned to the kitchen the meter was going crazy giving higher readings for some gases than were recorded in the intersection at rush hour. Use ventilation when operating a gas range.
I have written before about the EPA scientist taking air quality readings at a busy 14th St., NW intersection in DC at rush hour. His meter was in an attache case type enclosure. When he was through, he went home without turning it off. He entered his dwelling, set the case on the floor in the kitchen, turned on the gas oven and went to his bedroom to change clothes. By the time he returned to the kitchen the meter was going crazy giving higher readings for some gases than were recorded in the intersection at rush hour. Use ventilation when operating a gas range.
arbilab
Well-known member
I only "know" two things. One, I'm not prone to headaches. I didn't even own aspirin until I started coming down with Crohn's.
Two, the same turkey for the same time at the same temp in an electric oven does NOT give me a HA.
I can't swear the difference is attributable to CO, but you can't swear it's not.
Two, the same turkey for the same time at the same temp in an electric oven does NOT give me a HA.
I can't swear the difference is attributable to CO, but you can't swear it's not.
I have my BPI Energy Auditors cerification and they stressed during training that all gas appliances should always be vented outside because of the emissions. Its not worth taking a chance on getting Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Range hoods vented outside, space heaters vented outside, naturally, gas dryers are vented outside too. Every year some people die from running something like a generator outside the living area in this state that emission somehow enters the house. Even unvented gas space heaters are not really safe without a slightly open window and many states now have banned them. Most of todays homes are so tightly sealed and insulated that the inside air can not get rid of the pollutants that can kill us. But a Servel with a chimney, that would be a hoot!
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
I've seen different types in my time, although they were more common in Humboldt County, Northern CA. Single doors, double doors, with defrost timers and even ice makers similar to Whirlpool designed ice makers. Really neat looking. Along with gas powered wringers, the pot growers loved them at their grows as there were less power lines to lead undesired visitors to show up. They always knew when we had them show up at the shop I worked at for resale. They always had last names like "Smith" and "Jones" and paid cash. Hmmmm...
RCD
RCD
arbilab
Well-known member
Servel invented the crescent icemaker all home systems use to this day. So obviously their freezers would make ice. Brilliant piece of engineering, and I don't say that about a great many things.
WP bought Servel to get that icemaker.
2packs4sure
Well-known member
Servel invented the crescent icemaker and WP bought Servel t
Now that I didn't know.
Cool info.
Now that I didn't know.
Cool info.
