Slightly Political.....

[aquarius1984]

I know this is not the best website for displaying certain issues but im very intersted to see what you guys and gals feel about this subject.

Please dont think im racist in anyway its just something I cant get my head round.

~Ive been folowing (well as much as I can) the great debate over Muslim women wearing Burqas.

Something ive not seen crop up in the news is the need to remove them to buy age goverened products.

Now as you all know I work for a major supermarket where the local police are very stringent with sending in underage alcohol, lottery and cigarette purchasers to test us.
So it goes without saying I have to "ID" young customers on a 100% basis or i face a hefty fine and possibly jail.

So am I being unreasonable when checking a form of ID to request a Muslim female to remove a Burqa to buy alcohol, and beleive me we gets loads who do buy alcohol round here which is against the religion I know!!?? and cigarettes.

I also ponder how long will it be before a Burqa becomes a "fashion item" amongst non Muslim communities.
Which could essentially be claimed as a religious item by underage buyers in order to escape being ~ID'd.

A very confused Nick

 

[aquarius1984]

just remembered

that ive made the mistake of claiming a Burqa is worn for religious purposes and its not.

but the ponder is still the same as they are worn for some belief to themselves.

 

[dalangdon]

Though I am personally not religious, I respect religious people's right to do their thing - as long as it's not affecting other people's right to do THEIR thing.

But if they want to live in a place that requires you show your face from time to time, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Here in the US I don't think it's really a problem. I know that Muslim women who work as maids have to have their face shown when they're at work. The hotels have been good at compromising (letting them wear a headscarf that covers their hair, changing the uniform to pants and long sleeves so the legs and arms don't show, etc) and compromise always helps you get what you want.

Of course there are women who stay home, and you might see them all covered up at the grocery or on the street, but unless they are buying booze or cigs (which is not very common) they're free to do that. I can't imagine it's very comfortable, but neither are pantyhose (not that I would know anything about that).

If nothing else, they kind of remind me of the nuns back when I was a kid. You could see the nun's face, but that was it - you couldn't even see their hair until after Vatican II.

 

[aquarius1984]

absolutely

I dont have a problem with our Muslim friends wearing what they want but when it comes to the Licensing Laws we have I just dont know what to do.

I dont like racism or bullying and I feel I am being that, by asking someone to remove a Burqa for the laws of the UK.

HHHMMMM...

Nick

 

[maytagbear]

Your Management

doesn't say anything in writing about this?

If not, I would go to your section manager, and store manager, and ask them.

Then, if there is no policy already in place, there needs to be one.

Although, I couldn't imagine alcohol and tobacco purchases becoming much of a problem.

Lastly, we do have a small, but increasing, Islamic presence here in Kent, due to the University. I have found that if our local Muslims are approached with respect and kindness, they tend to reply in turn with respect and kindness.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[aquarius1984]

its early days I guess

and nothing has been relayed to the front line from head office as of yet.

but with it featuring so heavily in the news I guess it wont be long, but in the meantime....I dont want to face the punishment.

My managemnt dont really have a clue.

Just wanted some thoughts on the subject really I suppose.

Nick

 

[kevinpreston8]

My thoughts on this

apply across the board.

Generally speaking, I think that people that come to this country should adapt to OUR societal norms, not expect to change our society to suit them. This applies to language, and rules. If someone is offended that we need to see everyone's face for security reasons, it's too bad if they don't like it. That's not racism or insensitivity. I think the ones offended by a country's concern for security are the insensitive ones.

The plus side, is that this is a free country. Wear whatever costume you like as long as it does not contradict our laws and security. (you can't go naked downtown because you belong to the Nude Church, just as well, if YOUR customs consider it taboo to show your face, keep it covered unless again, it goes contrary to our laws).

I have seen companies bend over backwards to accomodate prayer and other customs. I think this country has done much to help people integrate.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Underage alcohol buying

It's amazing how many people under 18 still buy alcohol and are let into clubs - and even when I was 16 or 17 the excuse "I've left my ID at home" and acting offended that they even thought you were underage, always worked.

I think it is controversial, though, that Muslims are allowed to express their religion by wearing scarves but a national news presenter here was penalised for wearing a necklace bearing a small cross.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

JON!!!!!

You had/have mail!!! please reply LOL

Nick

(hope your ok)

 

[lavamat_jon]

Just sent/received - nothing in my inbox yet :-S.

 

[aquarius1984]

Sent about 5 days or more ago to do with something you text me about

Will send again

Nick

 

[lavamat_jon]

Oh - that one. I still have half a reply in my drafts lol. Will finish it in a bit .

So, working in a supermarket, are you really strict with ID then? Our local Tesco couldn't care less, like I said earlier. Buying alcohol loses it's fun when you reach 18, lol.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

Yes we get the local bobbies in weekly with some 14 year old attempting to but a bottle of something.

Tut Tut your Tesco!!!! but then we are the best store in the UK......

I could agree about the alcohol losing its fun after 18 but then all I have to do is look to the right of me and I see something.

Yes you guessed it a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon OPEN AND WITH THAT LARGE GLASS!!!!!

I promised my housemate this morning I would drink the Whole bottle tonight. She thinks im sad at 22 and cant hack the full bottle AT THE LEAST!

Well not since the Cider incident anyway!

I usually have a glass and a half and want to go to bed. but i have no choice tonight as im cooking tea(beef stew, mash and savoy cabbage) so i best drink up LOL.

Tis Bloody cold today!

Nick

 

[toggleswitch]

Statement: I can't imagine it's very comfortable, but neither are pantyhose (not that I would know anything about that).
Response: Pantyhose are interesting, you feel dressed, yet nekked at the same time. Problem is, with every fart the ankles swell and baloon-up.

I find it fascinating that the intent of said garment (burqa) is perhaps to keep the vanity of the gender from showing through and being obsessed over hair and its style, from being competitive with other females and perhaps to "blame" them (women) for "taunting" men.

What I dont understand is, why the jewelry and make-up and the modern clothing underneath and through it all. Does this not go against the "message"?

Bottom line is that some groups are just not comfortable with freedom.

 

[aquarius1984]

X Dressing

Funny you guys should mention wearing tights.

I went shopping in Chester today and decided enough was enough and bought a Male Handbag!!!!

Apparently they are all the rage between Italian men and when I weigh up when I go out I carry an UBER sized ring of keys, my mobile, Ipod, sometimes a bottle of scent (currently Obsession) a pair of specs, it makes sense.

And to be really honest as I walking past Dixons and a group of young girls exclaimed I was Fing Fit!!!!

So maybe they are not seen as Taboo here now.

HHHMMMM.....

Nick

 

[whirlcool]

Has anyone here ever flown from the Middle East to the UK or France? A lot of these Muslim women get on in their traditional cover it all up garb and then after take off run to the cans and come out wearing the latest in western fashions! The reverse holds true on flights back to the Middle East.

I know that the way a lot of airport security checkpoints operate is that they have to see the persons face for ID checks. A lot of time they have a small curtained off area near the security checkpoint and they escort the person with the Burqua behind the screen so that they can reveal their face in privacy. This seems to work for most all of them. But where you get screwed up is that when they present a photo ID it still shows them wearing a Burqua, all you see are the eyes!

A lot of muslim women say that having to drop the Burqua makes them feel like they are naked in front of the world.
Now if you look at airline flight attendants from a lot of middle east airlines, they don't have their face covered. Just their hair. I once was told that, I think it was Gulf Air, promises that all of their flight attendants have:

1. Permission to work from a man.
2. Promise to cover their faces during take off and landings.

I guess they don't have any femministic movements there.

 

[toggleswitch]

I feel so nekked.

My sister lived in her mother-in-law's 4-family. 4-story house. One lower level apartment wes rented out to an Arab, couple and I'm guessing they were Muslim.

The woman was using the coin-opeated washing machine in the basement at some odd hour (10 pm? ) ostensibly beleive whe soule not be seen. well, I busted in (ok ok burst-in in proper English) to the laundry room to fetch some necessary item from the pantry.

Well, the look on the poor woman's face- she was SANS "head-gear" and probably felt buck-@$$ nekked. Ever see a cinnamon-complected person turn white as a ghost? It took me a minute to figure out why she was stunned. She called me by my brother-in-laws name when she and I said hello. I assume she figured I was he and it was less awkward for her to think she was seen "exposed" by "family" (the landlord's son) rather than by me, a complete stranger.

The mind is a fascinating place; Peaks, troughs, caverns, grassy plains and sandy beach areas.

 

[toggleswitch]

I get an *F* In proof-reading! GRIN

The woman was using the coin-operated washing machine in the basement at some odd hour (10 pm? ) perhaps ostensibly beleiving she would not be seen............

 

[dalangdon]

I don't think it's not being comfortable with freedom as much as it is blatant sexism: The idea that a particular woman exists only for one man doesn't sit well with me. I believe in monogamy, but not women as chattel.

It's similar to the fundamentalist Mormons (who have been excommunicated from the Latter-Day Saints) where creepy old men think they have a right to as many wives as they want, and "marry" girls at a very young age. (Some take it to an even worse extreme, and cast out any male children in their community so they won't have the competition.)

Or certain sects of fundamentalist Christianity that expect women to keep everything except for their head and their hands covered, and subjugate themselves to men.

Or some sects of Judaism where part of the man's morning prayer is the part where he thanks God for not making him a woman.

I don't consider myself to be a "feminist" but I do believe in equal rights between the sexes. Men and women are different, and each gender has it's particular strengths and weaknesses, so I hate to see people's belief system used to keep a gender group down. If there is a supreme being, I think that we are all equal in its eyes.