So you think you're washing at 60 degrees?

[hoovermatic]

My Which magazine arrived today and given the article in yesterdays news about washing at 30 degrees, I was interested in reading this article (most of which I have tried to include here):

The 60°C wash setting on washing machines frequently doesn't actually reach 60 degrees, Which? testing has discovered.

We tested the 60°C cotton programs of 12 washing machines to find out the highest temperature reached and how long the top temperature is maintained. Eight of the 12 machines did not reach 60 degrees at all, with the lowest top temperature being 43°C on the Hoover DYN8163D8P-80.

Most of the washing machines kept the water cooler than 50°C for the majority of the wash program.

To see the full results of our testing, check out our guide to whether it's worth washing at 60°C.

Cleaning up the myths:

Which? washing machine expert Adrian Porter said: 'For years, the conventional wisdom has been to use the 60°C program to make sure your laundry comes out squeaky clean and free of bugs and bacteria.

'But while a 60°C wash does generally do a slightly better job of cleaning than at 40°C, the temperature of the water won't actually kill all bacteria, even if your machine is one of the models that reach 60°C. The real key to wiping out bacteria seems to be using a good laundry detergent to wash them away.'

We found that while a 60°C wash cleans slightly better than a 40°C wash, it also increases running costs by 57% on average.

Are washing machine manufacturers cheating?

Even though we found machines often didn’t hit 60°C, manufacturers are not actually cheating the EU energy labels because there’s no requirement for the washing machine to reach the temperature stated on the control panel.

Without that requirement, manufacturers can, in theory, not heat the water as much to save on energy costs and improve their ratings.

As the guidelines are currently so relaxed, we think the energy label is not a transparent and fair way to compare washing machines. We’ll be meeting with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which oversees the energy label in the UK, to present our evidence about washing machine temperatures.

 

[aquarius1984]

Interesting to see what does and what didn't great properly. No surprise candy was crap on that aspect. Have probed temps on our Bosch and thankfully out does what it days on the tin when not using eco perfect. All other washes do as they say

 

[dj-gabriele]

frequently doesn't actually reach 60 degrees

So much for the news... it's 10 years that everybody knows this!
It happened since the arrival of the A+ and higher classes of effiency.

But luckily just pressing the "intensive" or "stainblast" or watherver turns the 60°C ECO cycle in a classic, real, 60°C wash! (Or simply select a non ECO 60°C cycle...) And times can be shorter too.

 

[logixx]

The June issue of our consumer magazine dealt with the same problem. These are the results (with the brand names removed). Not one Cotton Eco cycle reached 60C while most regular Cotton 60C cycles did.

The table includes both the Eco (light gray) as well as the regular cycle (dark gray)

- temp in °C
- cycle duration
- approx. cost in Euros
- energy consumption in kWh

The values are for 50% loads

 

[launderess]

How Long Have I Been Saying This?

Thermal action of wash water temps >160F are good for sanitation but it is more a combination of pH level (alkaline is better),chemicals (detergents, bleaches, etc...) and mechanical action that provides a bulk of the work.

By shifting soils and biofilms off laundry you are sending most of the germs and what not suspended in water down the drain. Yes, they may still be alive but that does not befront most persons.

The easiest commonly found on laundry bacteria to destroy would be E Coli. It takes only wash water held at 160F to 166F for about ten minutes to deal with most strains. Then there are other germs, fungi, molds, viruses that would require temps >200F for extended periods to kill.

 

[haxisfan]

Honestly... Which? are full of... flunnel...

I just unwrapped my which? magazine and I quickly browsed through the pages but I couldn't find this article... what page is it on?

I own the Hoover DYN8163D8P and I tested the temperature myself. There are two cycles that are supposed to wash at 60 degrees.

The standard 60 degrees cycle defaults at a temperature of 40 degrees, but this can be visually seen on the display... the user might change the temperature manually. If 60 is selected, the washer will heat the water close to that temperature only once... then it would have probably cooled down considerably by the end of the main wash. Having said that, this is only one side of the coin. By choosing the 'Stain Blaster' feature, the machine will heat the water to that temperature as many times as it is required. In my book this translates into flexibility and it's something that deserves praise instead of criticism.

The other program that goes up to 60 degrees is a rapid cycle which will heat to this temperature provided that the user follows the manufacturer's instructions, namely they wash the recommended size load (3.5kg) on that cycle. If the weight of the clothes exceeds this limit, or the load is particularly absorbent, the washer will load more water than what the cycle is designed for... therefore, it will not be able to heat it up to temperature in the 35 minute main wash with a heater as small as 1200 watts.

It's just the opposite as the Bosch eco perfect system... instead of selecting it... you have to deselect it. Shoddy work by Which?

 

[electron1100]

Honest Hoover Who Else

It is an interesting thread this one, I have tested my Hoover A3190 with a digital thermometer and the results are as follows.

This machine has two wash cycles one low level and a high level one, so I have measured the temperature when the initial heating stage is finished, and at the end of the low level wash cycle.

It then fills up to high level this part of the cycle has a reheat stage for 40o the time for this can be between 2 and 8 minutes depending on the temperature of the cold water.

I then measured the temperature of the water being pumped out at the end of the high level wash cycle.

These are the results:

Prog E 40o Cottons initial heating to 40.9 then 41-42o pump out temperature 38o

Prog D 60o Cottons initial heating to 55o then 61o pump out temperature 57o

Prog C 90o Cottons initial heating to 80o then 89o pump out temperature 85o

The difference in the initial heating temperature and the final temperature on the low level wash is due to the wash times being of different lengths, as the machine will carry on heating throughout most of the wash cycle

So no problems there

Gary

 

[aquacycle]

Hi Gary,

That's very interesting. I shall have to test this out on the cottons cycles on my Miele over the weekend. Watch this space

Chris

 

[passatdoc]

Question re: UK machines

Hot and cold water line fill? Or cold water fill only?

 

[electron1100]

Hot or Cold Fill

My machine is hot and cold fill but I only use cold fill, it heats water so quickly there is little point in flashing up the multipoint (boiler) for it

Gary

 

[electron1100]

Testing machines

being interested in most things electro mechanical, I like to know what appliances are doing, I wish in a way at times I could just use something without thinking about what goes into it and how it works, I have met people who don't even know what make there washing machine is ?????? amazing

Anyway good luck with your testing Chris

 

[logixx]

Mine heats to the selected temp unless I press the Eco button, which reduces any temp by 10C (except for the 20C setting, of course). The Cotton cycle defaults to Eco and Heaviest Soil - deselecting these options takes almost an hour off the cycle. Unfortunately, the machine will only heat the water once.

 

[nrones]

Nothing new

about temperatures, it's been like that since A+ (-10%) and other came up on the market, after that, they were converted to the new energy label that goes up to A+++, and yet manufacturers now offer even A+++(-50%). How did you think they do it?

However, customers are cheated a little bit less than before. In 2013, every washing machine on the market (by EU regulations) must have a 20c cycle in some way available, and clearly labeled 'standard cycles' -see image. But, the fact that it's a standard cycle labeled like that, doesn't mean anything to the normal customer. They don't know what does it really mean...

All machines's 'Standard' cycles with A++ rating, or above have 2 bad points:
- Ridiculously long - 3 and a half hours or more.
- Temperatures aren't even close... ('standard 60' is around 40, 'standard 40' is actually around 30)
And it's deffinately not upto manufacturer - all of them are in it

Thankfully, all the machines have other programmes, which do the job just as they should - normal times, on selected temperature, decent rinses... so there's nothing to worry about...yet...until they make a regulation that all cycles must be super ecological.

Still, I must say I'm really not a fan of the Energy label, as some things just aren't clear enough. Not just this about temperatures, but the Rating for the wash performance as well, I mean, every single washer on the market has the A for wash rating, and nobody knows the criteria...does anyone?

Here's the preview of how new regulations affected Hoover washing machine - the identical model, old (upper) and new version

 

[dj-gabriele]

and nobody knows the criteria...does anyone?

Not really: it's as standardized as it can possibly be.

Down to the formula of the detergent used and the composition of the load and even the WAY TO PUT THE GARMENTS IN THE DRUM.
I'll fetch the relevant UNI EN norm if you want to know more.

 

[foraloysius]

That would be nice Gabriele! I read about it in the past, can't find it anymore.

 

[nrones]

UNI EN norm

yes, I would love it so much!
If the washing rating was more strict, and closer to normal usage of normal customer, the manufacturers wouldn't have came up with idea to reduce 60 down to 40 - they understood they were still getting the results of an A rated wash anyway.

Also, Wash rating is related to capacity...Those ridiculous capacities can't work with all of the clothes. There is a specific type and thickness of cotton, placed in the drum with some special methods, so the wash is possible... it's just a nonsense.
Anyways, it deffinately should be changed. Rating and criteria where everyone got the best mark is enough to show something is wrong.

And here's a little summary about what "A" wash rating currently is:

A wash rating is (for example) 7 kg of special cotton, loaded with the special method into the 49-52l drum (depending on the manufacturer), displayed 60, washed at 40, for around 4 hours, rinsed 2 times in low water level...

...now when I see it in one sentence, it doesn't even look ridiculous, it looks sad, just sad

Dex

 

[haxisfan]

But it was a mistake...

Dex, you don't need to make up excuses for this phenomenon when washing a 60 degrees Celsius on modern washing machines. The 12 machines tested by Which? were supposed to be tested on the Cotton 60 cycle but only 11 of them were tested at this temperature, the Hoover was tested on the Cotton 40 cycle instead.

I'm not saying that they did that deliberately (although they probably did LOL), as the 'Cotton 60' cycle on this model of Hoover defaults at 40 when selected and one can clearly see that on the display... so you basically get a Cotton 40 cycle instead. In order to get the Cotton 60... once the knob has been positioned onto the 60max cycle, you still need to browse the available temperatures and change it to 60 (then you'd get something like 55 like the other down2earth machines).

I used the standard cotton 60 this morning and, having read the Which? article, if I didn't know any better, I'd now believe that Hoover developed a new method to just heat the glass door while the wash water inside the machine is still barely warm. Also, I would rush to see my dermatologist because of a new skin complaint related to hyper-sensitivity to low temperatures: I touched the glass on the washer mid-cycle and I almost scalded myself. Such complaint must also be contagious as I wasn't the only one in my house to experience this.

 

[aquarius1984]

And we ALL know like the manufacturers also know, consumers DONT read instruction manuals or consult lcd displays like WE would.
They know that most people load, push and go - manufacturers are the ones who do the research and make up these special daily programmes for consumers.

Candy have conned consumers here and thats the bottom line.

At the end of the day if a washing machine dial says 60'c Cotton - one OUGHT to expect just that.

NO pressing extra buttons to make it do that because its programmed to do the opposite. No messing around. Thats what consumers want.

If Candy had labelled the cycle plain Cottons and the user selected the temperature then fair enough.

Defend them all you want - go explain it to a parent up at 3am trying to wash vomit off a childs bed linen hygienically. Ask her whats going thru her mind at that precise moment?? Bet its not reading the instruction manual for a washer.

 

[haxisfan]

No defending any1... sticking to facts...

aquarius1984... you just carry on aimlessly...

The cycle is not labelled Cotton 60... it just says 'Coloureds' on the control panel without the mention of any temperature. I gave you the morale of potential mistake because I know by reading the instruction booklet that this is the standard cotton cycle at 60, having selected the right temperature.