sodium percarbonate

[stan]

Mama

Not sure about liquid Clorox II as I've never used. Laundress will know..
If you find a non chlorine liquid let us know how it compares to the powdered sodium per-carbonate.

 

[stan]

Stumbled across this old thread

and was wondering If OxiClean contains the activators mentioned above ?
TAED or NOBS?

 

[stan]

What about

powdered Biz.. dose it contain the activators needed for the oxygen bleach in it?
Some light research on my part shows that only Powdered Tide, and powdered Gain have activated bleach!
Noticed a (new to me) powdered Tide with Oxy on the shelf? Looked it up, and it appears that it dose contain a activator...Don't know if this is a new product or not?

 

[launderess]

No, it does not.

Far as one knows once P&G stopped producing Biz (for awhile after being sold off toe Phoenix Brands they still did the manufacturing), so went their patented activated bleaching formula.

Forgot who makes Biz now, but they certainly weren't going to get their mitts on P&G's patents.

 

[stan]

Thank you Dear

For stoping by.
Do you happen to know if the product on the left is a old one, or new?
Since its a P&G product with Oxy.. I assume it's activated?
Liquid Tide with bleach confuses me because I can't see how a oxygen bleach could be stable in liquid form?
I suppose the new Biz will still be useful if not for the sodium percarbonate...as a enzyme soak?

 

[launderess]

"Oxi" Isn't a regulated word/term

As such detergent and other product makers are free to use it in names or whatever. This even if the product in question does not contain any sort of oxygen bleaching agent.

Product on left "Tide Ultra Oxi" is P&G's latest incarnation and part of a line of products having that word in product name.

https://tide.com/en-us/about-tide/tide-ultra-oxi-detergent-collection

Tide Oxi Powder ingredients:
•INGREDIENT
•Sodium Carbonate
•Sodium Sulfate
•Sodium Aluminosilicate
•Sodium C10-16 Alkylbenzenesulfonate
•Sodium Carbonate Peroxide
•Sodium Laureth Sulfate
•Sodium Phenylnonanoate Sulfonate
•Sodium Polyacrylate
•Sodium Silicate
•Water
•Fragrance
•Palmitic Acid
•PEG
•Fluorescent Brightener
•Phenylpropyl ethyl methicone
•Protease
•Amylase
•Lipase
•Blue 1

Sodium Carbonate

Ingredient descriptions have been provided by Tide.

Tide Oxi Liquid contains:

•Water

•Sodium Alcohol Ethoxylate Sulfate

•Linear Alkylbenzene Sulfonate Mea Salt

•Alcohol Ethoxylate

•Citric Acid Mea Salt

•Polyethyleneimine Ethoxylate Propoxylate

•Diethylene Glycol

•Propylene Glycol

•Linear Alkylbenzene Sulfonate Sodium Salt

•Alcohol

•Borax

•Polyethyleneimine Ethoxylate

•Sodium Alcohol Sulfate

•Fragrance

•Lauramine Oxide

•Lauric Acid Mea Salt

•Citric Acid Sodium Salt

•Sodium Dtpa

•Flourescent Brightener

•Myristic Acid Mea Salt

•Sodium Cumeme Sulfonate

•Poly Siloxanes

•Palmitic Acid Mea Salt

•Calcium Diformate

•Oleic Acid Mea Salt

•Ethanolamine

•Sodium Formate*

•Hydrogenated Castor Oil

•Protease

•Stearic Acid Mea Salt

•Sodium Hydroxide

•Siloxanes & Silicones

•Amylase

•Ethyl Hexyl Stearate

•PectateLyase

•Dimethicone & Simethicone*

•Liquitint Dye®

•Mannanase

•Benzisothiazolinone

Product on left is (or was) the most recent (until Tide with Oxi) incarnation of Tide powder detergent. You can see ingredients listed here: https://tide.com/en-us/about-tide/innovation/detergent-ingredients

 

[launderess]

What is interesting

A quick glance shows (unless one is wrong) Tide with "Oxi" does have oxygen bleach (sodium carbonate peroxide), but no bleaching activator.

Meanwhile the Tide powder (on right in your picture) does contain both oxygen bleach and an activator. Go figure.

Now to be fair sodium percarbonate is a powerful oxygen bleach in its own right. Often billed as the "cold water oxygen bleach" it will work in lower temps (compared to sodium perborate which needs temps at or >140F to really get going), without necessarily requiring an activator.

 

[launderess]

Have not tried the new Biz

But am working through a stash of the old stuff and it is great as an enzyme soaker. This and or when you want to whiten/brighten dingy stained wash/remove bad or set in stains.

Mothers, craft persons and others swore by using the old formula Biz for vintage linens, removing old "spew, goo, and poo" stains from baby clothes and so forth.

My only issue with Biz (old formula) was it definetaly was meant for top loading washers/soaking. Stuff creates tons of froth and can be difficult to rinse.

Tried it once in the Miele and Big Bertha instantly registered her displeasure. *LOL*

If you want a laugh, look at how many Tide products EWG rates "D" and "F". It is nearly the entire range.

https://www.ewg.org/guides/brand/6537-Tide?grade=f

 

[supersuds]

I’ve been trying a box of the Tide Ultra Oxi and as far as I can tell it works as well as the discontinued Persia Perls. I’ve only used it with “hot” water — as hot as you can get with a DD Whirlpool with tempered water, so I’m guessing about 110 at the most. I just assumed it would have the low temp bleach activator, but maybe it doesn’t need it.

The only big drawback of the current Biz powder for me is that is has so much washing soda it tends to make fabrics such as towels stiff. It would be nice to find some source for percarbonate alone.

 

[launderess]

"source for percarbonate alone"

FleaPay,

Chemistrystore.com

Along with plenty of others are sources for bulk sodium percarbonate, sodium perborate, STPP, and anything else you fancy.

Haven't purchased oxygen bleach from a store in ages. Just stock up from the above named sources.

Wait, I told a lie!

Did nab a box of Clorox "Dry" bleach of eBay last year. Stuff is discontinued and was a great activated oxygen bleach. One of the few on this side of pond that got around the clutches of P&G's patents on NBOS.

Also have a stash of Tide in wash stain booster pods and powder in those orange canisters. Use the former when using a detergent that lacks enzymes and oxygen bleach. The latter is good for same and or as a presoak.

As mentioned stash of old Biz came many years ago now, nabbed from Ebay.

One can make a great oxygen bleach by combining sodium percarbonate with a bit of phosphates. Sort of the reverse of the cheap "OxiClean" type powders that use lots of sodium carbonate as filler.

Biz leaving things harsh/hard.

Yes, noticed that with last few batches of the stuff before P&G finally washed their hands of the product. Got it from KMart and the product had a bubblegum/fruity scent that one didn't care for at all.

You'll find adding some white vinegar to final rinse water will help with that harshness. It will also help neutralize any remaining oxygen bleach.

 

[stan]

Thank you Laundress

For sourcing and providing such great info.
Odd that Tide with Oxi dose not contain the activator! Where as Reguler dose? Whats with P&G?
I've got a box of powdered Biz and have some things soaking in buckets...as I have done with OxiClean versital. I'll see if I find a difference between the two?
Ive had luck with OxiClean using the bucket method, wringing out, then running through reg wash cycle.
Have not used it much in the machine itself.
The Biz product asks that you use 1/2 cup to a gallon of water for a presoak....and up to a full cup added to machine WITH added detergent!
To me, thats a awful lot of detergent and washing soda added, since the the powdered version of Biz contains both!
Wonder if the liquid version has a bleaching effect without the soda?

 

[launderess]

If am being honest

Can see why P&G pulled the plug on Biz; it really just isn't necessary any longer.

The product started out as an enzyme pre-soaker, then became a detergent "booster", later an "all fabric bleach", etc...

Meanwhile yes, if one adds both Biz and a powdered detergent it is duplicating many ingredients, including washing soda.

Looking at ingredient list of old Biz (with oxygen bleach activator)you really don't need anything else.

https://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=16003096

Once P&G created Tide with Bleach, days for Biz were numbered.

 

[stan]

Dear, I see what you mean

"Meanwhile yes, if one adds both Biz and a powdered detergent it is duplicating many ingredients, including washing soda"

Thats why I'm reluctant to add to machine, just use a presoak. Same for OxiClean. Spin out or drain from bucket and wash with a little liquid detergent, then rinse in warm to get the stuff out.
Just wish there was a ativated oxygen bleach out there with no extra soda added. Short of that, doing as you suggested
(pure sodium percarbonate, and a little STPP, with a liquid detergent) should be a better option.
Have a freind that swears by liquid detergent with borax added, or a borax presoak.
Can't see Borax whitening as well as a oxygen bleach would?

 

[launderess]

Borax for ages was considered a "mild" bleach

Stuff does release oxygen in water, and is good for removing some stains but overall sodium perborate (borax and hydrogen peroxide) is a better bet.

OTOH the mildness of borax is why you find it in color "protecting" detergents and so forth. It releases just enough oxygen in water to counter chlorine (found in most municipal tap water), but isn't powerful enough to really bleach.

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-does-borax-clean-607877

Sodium perborate, borax and anything made from same IIRC has been banned by EU for laundry (and maybe other cleaning products). This was done out of environmental and other concerns. This is reason why Persil, Ariel, and other European detergents switched to sodium percarbonate as their oxygen bleaching agent.

On this side of pond P&G also moved TWB and other oxygen bleach products or those containing over to sodium percarbonate from perborate.

One thing about sodium perborate and borax in general; it can be difficult to rinse from laundry. That was one reason didn't like using Biz, it took far too many rinse cycles to get the stuff out of my wash.

 

[stan]

Thanks Laundress

This product...Which I've never even seen before...
Contains washing soda, but appears to at least have a activated oxygen bleach in the form of Sodium percarbonate.
Anyone seen or used it?

 

[launderess]

Washing soda and sodium percarbonate

Yes, but no bleach activator.

https://www.ewg.org/guides/cleaners/6502-CloroxOxiMaxRadiantWhiteLaundryStainRemover

https://www.whatsinproducts.com/typ...tain Remover, Powder-03/25/2015/p>/03-027-376

Does seem the "max" comes from a heavy dosage of OBA (fluorescent whitening agents).

Here is what one is speaking of; excuse tacky YouTube video:



Product wasn't out long, but was a great performer and beat "OxiClean" by miles.

Notice unlike Clorox2 this "dry bleach" made strong claims about whitening. As well it should; stuff was loaded with oxygen bleach and activator and am here to tell you is powerful.

 

[askolover]

I don't remember ever seeing that stuff Launderess.

 

[stan]

Well I was hoping!

Found this on the net, which backs up what Laundress has stated.
So maybe Clorax 2 Stain Remover and Color Booster Powder?
Still would be stuck with washing soda!

 

[supersuds]

Thanks for the leads, Launderess and Stan. You make a good tag team!

 

[launderess]

Sadly Stan

Options for oxygen bleach (with or without activators) for domestic use that do not contain sodium carbonate (soda ash), and or other fillers such as sodium bicarbonate, sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, etc... are nearly nil in this country. Even across the pond things are grim.

In theory alkaline pH levels do give better performance with oxygen bleaches. But that really applied mostly to sodium perborate, this thanks to the base substance(borax) being a rather mild.

Sodium percarbonate is made from washing soda and thus provides all the alkaline base it needs. It breaks down in water to oxygen, water and sodium carbonate.

Being as this may product makers can stretch sodium percarbonate by adding various levels of soda.

http://www.umich.edu/~chemstu/conte...pics_notes/Bracken_JCE_2005_p762_oxyclean.pdf