Solid Tub Washers

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Chetlaham

Chetlaham

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Why were solid tub washers discontinued? More specifically why did GE discontinue solid tub machines? Looking at how these operate, I don't see any major disadvantages. The solid tub design is anything saves on water since the outer tub doesn't have to hold all the water back.
 
Solid tub top loading washers

Were discontinued because they left too much sand and grit in clothing, and no matter how they try they never could get rid of lint as well either.

Solid tub machines often got pretty smelly because you had it top that was more sealed to the outer tub and you got a lot of buildup in the outer tubs in many cases.

It is ironic that they were more water efficient or at least could be. But the way they were used with waste full overflow, rinsing, etc. to try to get rid of lint and scum. They ended up using just as much water anyway but that could’ve been more efficient.

When GE redesigned their solid tub machine went to the Filter Flow V 12 machine. They made a drastic increase in reliability machines lasted about 50% longer immediately .

John.
 
Let's Look at the Actual Numbers...

I love you John but I have to step in here and put in my 2 cents as I disagree with some of those assumptions. I use solid tub washers for 99% of my weekly wash and never do I have any issues with lint or grit. I could see if I worked in farm fields full of ground soil a front-loader or perforated tub washer would perform mostly better but that isn't the case the for those of us in urban populations. I have never had any disagreeable odor coming out of my machines nor do I remember my grandmother's Frigidaire Pulsamatic as a child ever having any scent besides the clean smell of 1960s/1970s detergent. I also have found a ton of old solid-tub washers over the past 28 years and I do not remember any of them having any bad smell. Solid tub machines are superior in their ability to rinse out clothes which can clearly be seen in using a belt drive Whirlpool/Kenmore washer vs any solid tub machine. This is the reason I never use my belt-drive Kenmore washer to ever wash towels as that design was very prone to suds-locking where most solid tub machines rarely suds lock, even when I use vintage detergent with lots of suds in the wash.

As for water consumption, while some brands of solid tub washers used an unnecessary amounts of water (Hotpoint's early design was just ridiculous) the majority used less water than perforated tub washers. Let's look at the total cycle water consumption numbers that Consumer Reports reported for both 1954 and 1960 models. It is also interesting to note that the front loaders of the 1950s used almost as much water as the solid-tub machines.

1954%20Water%20Consumption.jpg

1960%20Water%20Consumption.jpg
 
I remember many years ago seeing a picture here of a solid tub Frigidaire out of the machine and it was massively plugged with lint....I think in the upper portion of the tub if my memory sticks aren't failing me.

 

When I had my WCI-63, it was "ok" at floating some of the dog hair out but not nearly as well as the Maytag and I didn't like the idea of sending it all down the drain even though I was on a public sewer system at the time. I was most likely plugging up those upper holes in the tub, too, I'm sure. I didn't use the washer very much nor tested it out with dirt/sand, so no comment there.

 

Now that I'm on 3.3 acres and spend a lot of time gardening/mowing/weeding/ every inch of it, there's no way a solid tub, front loader, and even a neutral draining perforated tub could handle the mess I throw in there. Even with a pre wash, main wash, 1.5 minute spray rinse and 3 minute deep rinse (we're talking over 65+ gallons of water), I occasionally have a little grit at the bottom corners of the tub with my dirtiest loads.
 
I remember well the solid-tub machines found in most Floridian homes back in the 1950's and 1960's and with rare exception I hardly recall any sediment issues.
Perhaps most parents in those days had enough sense to tell their kids to shake-out anything that came in from the beach as opposed to Betty Furness pouring a cup of sand in a machine. Almost all of the coin-op laundries in Florida in those days had solid-tub machines. I don't ever recall going to use one and finding it full of sand. By the 1980's most of those old machines were still chugging along even if the cabinets were all rusty from the salt-air.
There was a Frigidaire laundry in Tampa that limped into the early 1990's with the same (by then, very rusty) 1965 coin-op Unimatics they had when they opened.
I never ever remember a smelly solid-tub machine. Ever. Maybe because people still used hot water and bleach.

If anyone ever wanted to see evidence of lint removal capability, they should have seen some of the tubs I pulled out of the 1965-1970 Frigidaires! Every drain slot completely plugged with lint. I envisioned lots of kids and dirty towels/ wash cloths. I still believe nothing ever caught lint and pet hair better than a Filter-Flow, solid-tub or perforated.

I have a 1963 Multimatic that does a pretty lengthy over-flow rinse, and a 1962 Norge that is just a ridiculous water-hog. I cherish both machines for those loads I use Clorox in. Great rinsing capability. I usually set the Temp. switch on Warm/Warm, and turn off the Cold water to make sure I can get a Hot/Hot complete cycle. Kitchen towels are left spotless and grease-free. I never saw a solid-tub machine with a nasty black grease-ring around the agitator.
I always thought the Unimatics were pretty good with water usage, and the GE solid-tub Filter-Flo's seemed like water-hogs, back in the day.

Well, water was pretty cheap back then and still is where I live.
 
ST Hotpoint ...

..,did often have sand and sediment at bottom of tub,but it took in a lot of sand it had to dispose of :) Washer was a 1969 or'70 model and lasted until 1981,when aluminum sediment tube corroded and broke loose,lodging in the pump.I watched the Hotpoint get buried in the landfill,a white rollermatic nearby in the debris :)
 
I have an early 80's SQ (big tub) solid tub machine. It really is a good machine and it is nice that it holds a larger load. However, due to the usual Government interference involving water usage, the rinse fill is always about 3/4 of a tub full when agitation begins. The first part of what should be an overflow rinse, is just time spent filling the tub the rest of the way. Then the water pauses for a few minutes. Then there is about one minute of a proper overflow rinse before the final spin.

So, with these machines you get the added room for a larger load, trading rinsing performance for the sake of Government over-reach.
Leave it to a Government to kill anything good.
 
Leave it to a Government to kill anything good

Hum, I'm not so sure it was "Government" influence but rather that SQ recycled timer interval sequences / interval durations / water valve GPM output between the standard capacity and large capacity solid tub washers.

SQ used the same 3-1 sequence for the 70's large capacity rinse portion of the cycle that was being used with the 60's machines, and having the same interval duration and GPM. 3 intervals of fill and 1 interval of fill during the first interval of agitation, during rinse.

If I had to guess, it wasn't the Feds chasing the brass in Rippon but rather the bean counters in Rippon not wanting to fork more money for a higher GPM water valve for the large capacity machines. They were already toggling between the 3.5 on the standard capacity and the 3.8 on the large during this time, both recycled from the 60's. The 3.5 was reserved for the standard capacity/timed fill, with the 3.8 being used on the pressure fill and large capacity machines.

I can't imagine these were cheap machines to build by the late 70's and they were looking to cut costs anywhere they could. Adding a third valve to the mix wouldn't make sense, plus the clothes were still getting clean.

Ben

swestoyz-2023042808332504021_1.jpg

swestoyz-2023042808332504021_2.jpg
 
Maybe, or------

a combination of both. We do know that there had already been years of pressure from the (so called) Consumers Union to force manufacturers to reduce water consumption.
And, the Government certainly was involved at the time, as well.
Using up the original water valves would have been like Frigidaire using the last of the Jet-Action agitators on the 1-16's or Maytag using up the solid-fin Gyratator's on the early BOL New Generation of 1966/1967.
It's all about the $$$$$$.
 
Lower rinsewater fill 1980 Speed Queen

Energy guides were required by 1980 on washing machines so I’m sure Speed Queen was concerned about sales and we’re making minor changes to reduce water usage and give the machine a more attractive energy guide.

Like it or not the majority of Americans want lower utility bills and want to save water and energy. Substantial majority of Americans are voting for energy, saving measures, which will hopefully lessen the climate crisis.

John
 
Solid tub machines of recent vintage

Are there any recent model solid tub machines in the US?

 

In Australia, Simpson did make a sort of "semi-solid tub" machine that was a bit of a half-way design. This would have been in the last 10 or 15 years?

It had a stainless steel inner basket that had a very small number of holes, I'm not clear on the details, but I think the idea was it worked more or less like a solid tub machine, but a predictable amount of water "leaked" out through a few holes into the outer tub, fell to the bottom and a recirculation pump returned it to the inner basket. The holes were small enough and few enough that there was mainly air between inner and outer tubs, not water. It was done to make their top loaders more water efficient - Australia is generally very water conscious.

 

I have no idea if these machines were any good, if the current models are still like that or not, or exactly when this design came in. Others might like to chime in with more detail or corrections. They aren't really "my thing."
 
Reply #13

Sorry to take this off the tracks, but If people want lower energy costs and bills, then we need to build more nuclear power plants which produce clean and abundant electricity. Once nuclear fusion is figured out, then we’ll have an unlimited supply of energy.

People who are against nuclear energy simply fall for propaganda and false information that’s put out there by the oil companies along with the bureaucrats who know nothing about energy production and such.
 
Solid tubs go to the beach

When we lived in a beach community, almost all of the families purchased second-hand washing machines and, because this was during the early Sixties, that meant that all of them happened to be solid tub machines. Being interested in washers I was aware of who had what and how they differed. We had, of course, a Filter-Flo, our next-door neighbor, Mrs. Petruzelo,  had many machines because her son had many rental properties and machines for his mother, appeared as needed. The one they had the longest was a beautiful turquoise Rollermatic and it fascinated me with that "Jet-Action"  pulsator in that bluish solid tub with the ridges. My Mom's best friend Connie, who lived further down the street had an old Hotpoint with the solid tub and the long-necked agitator. Pretty much all the machines were from the lower end of the model lines. I don't remember anybody complaining about sand left in the clothes. Nobody had a dryer, everybody line-dried their laundry in the sweet and salty shore breeze. Even the oversized beach towels left no trace in the tub.

 

I remember towards the end of our time there, Consumer Reports did a very thorough review of washers and did cite machines that were rated Poor at "sand disposal" and I do remember that those were solid tub machines that somehow made it to 1969. Never gave it a thought before that.

 

My Mother's only complaint with the Solid-Tub Filter-Flo was the lame recirculation that didn't work with a partial fill (she thought the whole lint-filter thing was an inconvenience and because it was a 1960 model where they switched out the metal filter pan with the plastic one {which was difficult to remove from the Activator post}) she didn't bother with any of it.

 

Mrs. Petruzelo was very satisfied with her Frigidaire; we know this because if there had been ANY issue, everyone on the street would have known about it.

bajaespuma-2023050417553507277_1.jpg

bajaespuma-2023050417553507277_2.jpg

bajaespuma-2023050417553507277_3.jpg
 
Interesting observation. When we were growing up in Brooklyn, we went to the beach every Tuesday - Thursday during the summer- a two hour bus trip but that's another story for another day. That meant beach towels and bathing suits were washed every day after returning home. We had a 1958 Lady Kenmore which of course had a perforated tub. However Aunt Jennie, who lived three blocks away had a solid tub 1955 Norge TimeLine and I don't ever recall her complaining about sand disposal issues. But then she was so meticulous in her housekeeping that she wiped out the tub with a dry towel after every washday, left the lid up to completely dry out the tub and also wiped down all her kitchen appliances several times per week, then hit them with a coat of Jubilee wax. Where am I going here? Good question. I think part of the reason for the lack of sand disposal issues, perhaps a major reason, was that part of the towel laundering routine was shaking out all the towels and other beach clothes before laundering. I can clearly remember both my mother and aunt shaking clothes out of the kitchen window after the beach and before washing. Maybe those living in beach communities understood that also. Just my guess.
 
In comments section of above YT videos our own Agiflow says:

"The only reason the Westinghouse did better with sand removal is the perforated tub which the three top loaders didn't have. They were solid tub washers.

Of course Westinghouse didnt test against Whirlpool/Kenmore. Those two had perforated wash baskets since the beginning of the automatic washer boom after WW2."
 
Yes sand can stay

Thank goodness the lady next door had a Frigidaire washer. She would let me watch it. Also where we stayed in Santa Cruz, a few times, had a Frigidaire washer. I was maybe 10 at the time and did a load of sheets. Not only did they tangle, because I did not load in 4 quarters, the sand from the beach stayed in there. None of this would deter me from owning a Frigidaire because I enjoyed the action of the agitator and the acceleration into the spin, no other washer has that acceleration. My mom had the '44 Bendix which I watched on a daily basis, but I still liked watching top loaders.

I think another problem area for Frigidaire was the two bellows seals. It was OK if the owner repaired them, and in those days people would have their appliances serviced, but if not disaster would follow. Leaks or oil in the clothes.

I also used a Frigidaire Coin Op model in 1966 in Berkeley, the one that did a complete cycle in 18 minutes. Compare that with todays hour long loads.

By the way, a new Speed Queen TL can produce a pretty good tangle, yes, you need to load in the 4 quarters, especially with sheets.
 
Oh yeah, the SQ TL's of today-------

will make a mess out of a load of sheets no matter how you load them. (Except, of course, the TL series that don't move anything around enough to tangle them).
The ones we have at the office wash mostly towels and sheets, so I have plenty of experience with them.

Funny thing about Betty Furness, she never mentions the propensity of those old slant-fronts for tangling (and sudz lock). They were as bad or worse as any of the usual suspects amongst the TL's of that era.
 
Well, regarding dear old Betty and the Westinghouse test - would the fact that the top loaders used had timed fill and possibly a single water supply for the three other machines filling at the same time have made an impact on the results? If true, that may not have had much, if any effect at all, but I don't recall anyone in my youth with a solid tub machine adding half cup of sand to the wash.... and even with a perforated tub top loading SQ, I still shake out all my beach things before washing. Some habits die hard.
 
IIRC those Westinghouse front load washers with tilted tubs were nicknamed "rope makers". This was due to tendency of wash coming out in a tangled long mess.

As for suds locking between high foaming detergents (Tide) or use of soap what chance did any front loader back then have?

When Maytag brought out their Neptune line of H-axis washers some said it was deja-vu all over again since those tubs were also slanted.
 

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