Soon to be very COOL KitchenAid KD-12 Dishwasher

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You Bastard! opening a window on the Forbidden Cycle before me!

Well I figured I better just go ahead and do it, besides Jon you're too busy working on making Dash again, remember
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ooooh how fabulous. Beware of #1 witch with power-tools!

~I simply wired it in series with the motor, so whenever the dishwasher pump motor is running my drain pump runs as well.

:-)

uhm, I believe you mean wired in parallel. Black to black, (hot) white to white (neutral) wire. Wired in series means the power first goes through one then the other. In that case each one would get half of 110v, and we don't want that!

SPeaking of circuits in series:

So what did you do with the detergent dispenser mechanism? Is it a bi-metal thingie? Let me explain; in some machines (I'm thinking of D&Ms from the 70's) there is a bi-metal "coil" that heats and bends/warps to release the spring-loaded detergent cup. Alas, it is NOT a 110v device and IIRC it was (briefly) wired in series (via the timer) with the heater to reduce its voltage. So, in theory, if the whole works went bye-bye it may be appropiate to electrically "short it out" to ensure the heater is energized at all times.

What say you, sir?
 
uhm, I believe you mean wired in parallel.
Yes Toggles that is what I meant, after I posted that I realized I got the terms parallel and series mixed up. The hot wire is coming from the timer to the drain pump and the neutral wire is tied directly to the neutral buss.

So what did you do with the detergent dispenser mechanism?
In 1957 with the exception of the Hotpoint (I believe) there were no detergent dispensers in dishwashers yet :). In the '57 KitchenAid its simply a little stainless steel cup.
 
mY LATE father pruchased the same machine in 1954. I still use it daily and it has NEVER had a service call. It is extremely well made and if loaded properly will do a great job with the dishes ...and not take all day to do it. The only thing Iv'e ever had to do with it is to replace the rubber impeller in the pump. Not able to find an exact replacement , I took the little pump motor down to our local blacksmith and he fashioned one out of brass. That was 12 or 13 years ago...and it still is perfect.It is a wonderful machine.
 
An impeller "fashioned?"

Hmmm. Great to hear how well your Kitchenaid has worked for all these years. A true testament to how well a machine can be designed.

About that impeller.. I have to wonder if your fixit man didn't just go over to the Hobart office and buy an impeller! Yours was not made of rubber but a bakelite composite and the commercial machines came equipped with a brass impeller as well as all metal pump housings which would probably last for 100 years! Believe it or not, we did change alot of them out when the UM dishwashers were around. They had a brass ring on them which would wear a bit and the washarms would wear out on the matching surface, but considering one of these machines might do 100 or more cycles a day, replacing these parts would not be unexpected after a few years!
In the home..decades if not centuries!

Attached is the parts breakdown of the commercial machine's Pump .You can see the similarities in the parts except for the materials used to make them. Very expensive these days but still available.
Hobart Stopped producing the UM series in 1979 for all intents and purposes. The WM series was already being built and sold and expanded upon from the basic machine. These were based on the 15 series then had a 16 series tank but no dryer, no elements and a single 3 minute cycleand required 180 degree water unless it had a Chlorinator.Later editions of the WM's had regular and extended cycles as well.
Hope your machine gives you more and more years of use.

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As far as I can remember...

Early KitchenAids had the mesh baskets to hold the detergent as my Kd2. There was a friend of my Mom's that had a Kd12 and it was mounted in the Silverware basket. The pic I'm attaching my Kd2 (circa 1957) is the exact detergent server for those models.On the Front loaders it used to sit on the left of the silverware basket. On the Top loaders like mine, it sits on the center of the upper rack.

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The dishwasher at Dunkin Donuts was just like that, but all stainless steel, and had a temperature gauge at the bottom panel. It was used mostly to wash the coffee cups and had a very short cycle, one wash (the girls just tossed a teaspoon of detergent on the door) and one rinse. But while the wash was a normal 120 degrees, the rinse was a blistering hot 180 degrees, so no need for a drying heating, the steam just flashed off the cups.

This dishwasher did have the washarm, but it was gray rather than blue, but did not have a heater at all. In back of the store was a water heater that I called the Rude Dragon because it was made by Ruud and sounded like a dragon. In the plumbing on top was a valve arrangment that controlled the temperature of the hot water. The dragon heated the water to too dangerous for the home 180 degrees, and when the dishwasher rinsed, it drew directly from the dragon. But during the wash (there must have been 2 water valves) the dishwasher drew from a mixing valve which mixed some cold water with the incredibly hot water to just have hot water. The other faucets in the store drew from this valve too. The store is all closed up and for sale, and decaying but I think this dishwasher is still there.
 
I remember the gray wash arms also!
There was a few Waffle Houses that I went to, that were older, and had this type of washer. Was it like a "camel back"?
I had enough drinks in me from the night to ask them if I could play with it. Their cook, you know the rest, said sure....
I never went any further than me playing with this vintage Hobart! I think I washed plates and such for about an hour! (yes, i had to pay the bill for my munchies) Later I even thought about being a dishwasher for them so I could play with it a few hours a week.
What a life right? Youth!
Brent
 
Of Camels and coffee..one lump or two?

Neptunebob, the setup for that undercounter at Dunkin was a dual inlet valve setup where the first wash filled, like you said with the "mixed" water from the Dragon and the final rinse would fill thru the second valve for the 180 degree sanitizing portion and then flash dry! That was a model UM4-D with the D signifying "dual" valves! Very logical, no?
As far as Brent and his waffle house nightmares, that was not a UM series he washed dishes in.. That would have been a model
SM-6 machine which was the smaller of the roll top designs Hobart manufactured. That had a smaller than standard 20x20 inch rack so it would fit in the space of the counters at waffle house and was also a popular unit in many donut shops and nursing homes and church kitchens etc.
The UM and KD 10-thru 14 series also had a smaller rack than what we are used to seeing. The 15 and up went to the more industry standard sized racks being used at that time by most manufacturers and would accommodate the standard commercial 20x20 inch racks. In fact the domestic racks for those units were actually even bigger than the 20x20 as the WM's needed a carrier rack to hold the 20x20 and the WM-5s had a slider channel welded to the tank where the rollers would have normally gone so they could eliminate the carrier rack and just use the normal 20x20 racks by themselves.

Interestingly, Hobart stopped production of the SM series and Waffle house had to go to Champion Industries to have them make a new rolltop for them. Hobart required too many of them for a profitable production run. IIRC, Champion's model number was RB-16 and they made them for a short period of time and apparantly have stopped. I guess one of us has to stop by a waffle house and see what they are using!
 
Choices, Choices....

Have you decided on a color yet?
Can't wait to see the video!
I know you have been busy, but just curious.
Hope you had a great weekend!
Brent
 
Nope not yet, but I did find an amazingly close match to 1950s Frigidaire pink in gloss spray form at Home Depot. I've never seen such a close match to a 50's pink before.
 
Pink sounds nice! I always loved the Frigidaire pink!
Are you going to put this in your kitchen? Or have it in your basement?
It would be awesome in your kitchen!
Brent
 
As I recall, according to the service manual, the wash arm on the KD-2P is supposed to spin at least 60 rpm with clean water and no detergent. I remember timing mine (obvious from the sound, esp with an empty unit) and it met the spec.
 
Washer Arm Design Question

We have a pink KitchenAid K-12 dishwasher that came with our 1959 home that we bought a few decades ago. It still works okay, but it should rotate faster. Is there supposed to be a ball bearing or washer at the top of the shaft where the cast iron wash arm sits? I hear a metal on metal sound when turn it by hand. And when I give it a push, it revolves 1 1/2 times before coming to a stop. What lubrication is recommended? Thanks for any help.
 
What is the wash arm support made of

On your machine? The later models had a bakelite housing that would wear out quicker than the metal housings. If you have the metal housing, it had a brass "bearing" on the top circumference of it that the bottom surface of the wash arm rotated on. If the machine does not get frequent use, these surfaces can develop rust on them or lime scale which cause the wash arm to slow down and in some cases, even freeze up and not turn at all.
You can take some very fine steel wool and polish the surfaces to make sure that they are smooth and that should eliminate the problem. Remember, too, that water works as a lubricant and helps the arm slip while rotating. If the surfaces are dry, you may very likely hear some squeaking from turning the arm.There is no lubrication you can use that won't be washed away by the detergent.
If there is wear on the internal brass bushing that sits over the support pin, which may be causing the problem too, then you will either have to find another arm from one of our members or take it and the top of the support to a machine shop and have them fabricate you a new bronze bearing for the arm. They were pressed in so getting it out will be the real challenge.

It is always great to hear how long these machines have lasted. Whirlpool will never be able to duplicate the longevity designed into the true Hobart Kitchenaid machines.
 
Bakelite

...is what our support housing is made of. The circular top surface of the support pin is flat and has an inlaid square of brass at its center - about 1/16 inch on each side. I plan to make it a little smoother and examine the wash arm bearing. Last time I looked, there was evidence of the wash arm rubbing on the support housing, a fine circular tracing. What about a brass washer if the upper bearing seems okay?
 
Draining the KA...

Funny this thread reappeared just now.  I'm sitting a few feet from my  vintage KA dishwasher trying to come up with a plan to drain it.  I was disappointed to read the solenoid is energized the entire cycle then turns off when the unit drains.  Was thinking of starting a thread.

 

Anyway I have a gravity drain model and I'm installing it in my basement so no way to drain it easily.  I'm putting it next to my mid 70's Whirlpool DW, and I ran a drain line for it about 14" off the floor.  I have the pump assembly from an early 90's GE DW and I was thinking of using it to drain the KA, Looking at the wiring diagram mine shows an optional drain pump wired into the solenoid.  If the solenoid was energized on drain it would work well, now, not sure.  I suppose I could rig up a circuit perhaps with a NC relay, and when the solenoid was de energized the pump would kick in.  Not sure.

 

Another thought was to run another drain line at floor level and simply drain it into the floor drain in the basement.  It will get little use so I wont be polluting too much, but if you follow the news, the Flint River water is pretty bad without my added dishwasher detergent.  My storm drains that my house tiles are tied into drain into the river about 3/4 mile away..

 
 
Success and Gravity Drains

Thank you. Our KitchenAid K-12 now runs perfectly. A full load of dishes came out sparkling. The wash arm rotates robustly and at full speed, and the splashing action is good and strong. All this as a result of cleaning some of parts (wash arm, support housing and pin, drain strainers) and using steel wool to gently smooth the surfaces of the wash arm support pin and the inner surfaces of the wash arm bearing. Have you ever seen a black K-12? It's almost elegant. We had it commercially enamelled 15 years ago. By the way, the gravity drain on our machine evacuates the water in less than 10 seconds, trouble free for 30 years.

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Replacing Pump Motor Blues

SOS. My black enamel 1959 KD-12 finally had its first serious setback after 59 years of service. The pump motor seized with a screech and some smoke. I plan to repair it (bearings, water seals, lubrication, electrical). I started to remove the motor by following the owners manual instructions. After removing the impeller and eight screws, the motor did not budge. It is supposed to drop downward with some gentle easing. I started to use some force a la rubber hammer and lead hammer. I used penetrating oil, and removed the impeller and the shaft pin. I disconnected the drain valve from the motor by removing its two screws. The only thing that may need removing is a "washer" or ring just below the pin hole, as well as the seal seat, water seal, and related parts, but they do not budge. Is that "washer" the key to releasing this massive motor? There is also a casting (rusty) below all this and it is unclear if that is a firm foundation or the top of the motor. SOS
 
Be very careful...

With the shaft seal on that motor.

Here's what to do. If you have gotten the wash impeller off, and the pin that holds the top of the seal out, then carefully remove the top of the seal which could be a ceramic or metal part. They cannot be had from anyone or anywhere. At least without trying to match it up at a really good seal supplier.

The lower half can remain in place in the metal pump housing because the motor shaft will slide right out of it when you take the motor apart.

I assume that you have removed the machine and if not, please do so as this will make it easier to remove the motor. What is holding it in place are the cork gaskets that seal that top tank ring and the lower splash shield to the tank and motor. Once the machine is out. turn the machine upside down and spray some PB Blaster, nothing else...not WD-40 or other penetrating oil. Use the PB Blaster and soak the area around the gasket. Let it seep in and then spray some more. This should soak into the gaskets and help loosen them up.

If you get really lucky, you may be able to jostle the motor loose from the tank. Otherwise, you will have to pry it away from the tank. Go gently and try as best you can to save the metal shields for reuse. You will probably have to make replacement gaskets yourself. I don't know if anyone on the forum has new parts that they can get to you.

Once you have the motor out, you can separate the motor by removing the screws on the bottom and the motor will split into 3 parts. If you have a drain pump mounted on the bottom of the motor, take out the screws holding it to the bottom of the motor and DO NOT separate it from the drain valve. You will likely break the tank like device that attaches to the drain valve.

Those 4 screws that hold the motor together will probably hard to get out so be patient and keep your fingers crossed. I would suggest using a hand held impact driver to shock the screws into turning and work them out slowly if you can. You don't want to break them. When you reassemble the motor, put some anti-sieze on the threads to make it easier to remove them in the future.

If you didn't try to start the machine a lot, hopefully the start windings are not burned badly and you can still get some life out of the motor. If worse comes to worst, you may have to have the motor rewound. Go to a really good motor shop. A good shop worth its salt can rewind any motor. Anyone who blows you off probably does not do good work.
The bearings are standard bearings, permanently lubricated(though at 59 yrs old, the grease probably dried up.) Replace them with sealed bearings, not open faced ones.
If all goes well, you will have a motor ready to last another 60 years. Reinstall the motor into the tank which now, you may want to do with the machine right side up but it is still a bear to do.
A hint to make it easier.. Take one of the motor mounting bolts to Ace Hardware or Home Depot and get a piece of "all-thread" to match the mounting bolt. Cut 3 or 4 pieces maybe 3 or 4 inches long and when you are ready to lift the motor into place, you can thread the all thread into the top of the motor these pilot screws will help you to pull the motor into place and secure it. Install the other screws and then remove the pilot screws and replace them with the correct screws. This will also keep the gaskets and lower shield in place while you are raising the motor. Reinstall the shaft seal and everything else. Water test it and make sure you don't have leaks and you should be good to go.
Just for the record, the part number for the seal is 00-077107 so maybe an internet search will help you. Ideally, you would want to replace it. If you should find one, have the motor shop install the lower part that goes into the top housing before returning it to the machine.

See, how easy that was! Oh man I replaced and rebuilt so many of those motor wghen I was so much younger.
 
Ready to Unroll

Thanks SteveT. Your advice is beyond invaluable. I am now ready to proceed. I do have enough rolls of thick cork sheeting in my stockpile to make new gaskets, if need be. And I did notice that fragile layer of carbon in that washer sandwich. I'll still need to find a successful way to hold the motor shaft from turning and getting enough purchase to turn that stubborn washer at the the top of the seal away and off. Even small vise grips can be crude tools. But as you described, all that may be a lot easier once I have the motor on the workbench. Michael.
 

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