Speed Queen Front Load Machines

[bobo]

Thank you Qualin for the info.

I'm heading to my local Miele boutique this Sunday, just to get an idea of what a well-built machine feels like. I highly doubt the European machines (W3033) are big enough for my needs, as I want to wash a Cal-King duvet cover and a fitted sheet in one load. The SQ sounds promising, as it's got a 3.3 cu.ft drum, which should be big enough for my needs. Still have to find a place to see the washer in person though. So for now, the SQ is on the top of my list.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I have the current SQ. I knew what it was before I bought it so I am not disappointed but it has pluses and minuses. It is a very rugged machine. Unlike so many of the FLs out there, this one does not have to be perfectly balanced to go into spin; its construction can take some vibration in spin. It is brilliantly engineered to shut off the pump during the surge spins to avoid air locking. The pump comes on again as the tub slows when there is plenty of water over the pump intake for positive pump outs. More importantly, the tub stays in the distribution speed between the surges so it does not have to redistribute before each surge spin. My Duet would usually go into the initial phase of spin prety well, but the water spun out of the load (because the speed ramped up too quickly) quickly overwhelmed the pump which tripped the flood sensor. The whole machine, except the pump came to a stop while the water slowly drained out. It then had to rebalance, which proved a very difficult task involving many attempts. It is possible to slowly ramp up without overwhelming the pump with too much water; my Miele W1986 does it beautifully, but the software in the Duet was not sophisticated enough.

The Speed Queen has many good points, but now it is time to make you aware of its shortcomings. First of all, its controls are little more than those of a coin-op machine with a couple of wonderful additions. A 24 minute, plus or minus, wash is too much for many things. It can be rough on fabrics. There should be something to allow cycle modification. Second, the surge spins are totally inadequate for removing enough water from the fabrics, especially heavy fabrics, for good rinsing. A FL uses a very small amount of water. Rinsing is a process of diluting the amount of detergent in the load. The best FLs, like the W1986, spin at very high speeds between the water changes for cottons. That means less water from the previous fill is carried over into the next rinse. If you ever stop the SQ after one of these surge periods and set the control to SPIN, you will see, if your machine drains into a tub, how much water is retained in the load. If you cannot see how much water is spun out, you could stop the machine and reach in and squeeze the load to get an idea of how wet they still are. In commercial installations like launderettes, carrying over this larger amount of water in the load before each rinse makes the washer use less total water because it does not have to resaturate the load for each rinse. It is not as bad as the commercial top loader that just drains part of the wash water out and then fills for rinse, but it is a similar principle. It also reduces total cycle time since it does not have to allow for a couple of minutes of higher speed spins between the water changes and that is also important to a commercial laundry operation. If any or all of this bothers a user, they can always do like I do and time the wash for a period shorter than the maximum, then turn the dial to OFF, then turn it to SPIN and let the load go through a real spin. Then start each rinse manually by setting the timer to RINSE & SPIN. No one machine is best for everything. This one is good for many things, but it could have been made better, like many other machines, if they were not designed under the shadow of stupid energy regulations thought up by bean counters and if SQ was interested in offering a thousand dollar machine with features comparable to other thousand dollar washers.

 

[logixx]

I second what qualin said about concrete shaking. I used these Speed Queens at a dorm where they were installed on a concrete first floor. The floor would noticeably vibrate during some spin cycles. But that's the same with Miele. These washers rely on their weight, rather than on sensors, steels balls or gel packs, to stop the unit from moving around. There are several reports from European users saying how their Miele goes into spin unbalanced because the overall construction of the washer can handle it - but then again, European homes usually don't have a wooden construction like in the US (or Canada, I suppose).

Alex

 

[bobo]

It can be rough on fabrics?

Tomturbomatic:

You said that the washer is rough on fabrics; is it because the actual wash cycle is too long (24mins), that's causing it? Is there a way to make shorten the wash cycle? I think my 20 year-old TL spends about 15mins agitating and, for some odd reason, that machine is making everyone's clothing in the house looking rough and old.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I saw some wear on items. The drum is large so there is a lot of tumble action. I don't know if you are aware of this, but their first model had something like an 8 minute wash and Consumer Reports said its cleaning performance was not up to that of the other machines so with the next model, SQ greatly increased the wash time. My laundry is not that dirty so it does not need to wash as long, plus I wash in hot or warm water so I am not trying to remove heavy soil with cold water.

Unfortunately, I have found no way to modify the machine's cycles, other than by turning it off and doing as I stated above, because like so many new machines, it does not actually have a timer dial you can use to shorten a part of the cycle. The rinse periods are very short, so I sometimes turn it off after a couple of minutes of tumbling and then restart the rinse to give it extra time to make better use of the water. Just a textiles do not instantly give up soil, they do not instantly give up detergent in rinse water so a little bit of extra time tumbling in the rinse can make the rinsing more effective.

You might be able to get by with less agitation time with your top loader. Please hang on to it, if for no other reason than if you have one item to wash, it is very difficult to get it to balance well enough in a FL for it to spin. With a TL, you can often spread out and position the item in the bottom of the tub to get it to spin, even if at first it might trip the out of balance switch before you manually reposition it. You can't do that in a FL.

 

[ronhic]

Bobo

Firstly, consider what you will wash and how often you wash them before deciding a larger capacity machine is the way to go.

Consumer magazines both here in Oz and in the UK have found that consumers rarely if ever reach the capacity of the machine - don't let looks deceive you! Choice magazine has just revamped their testing procedures to focus on 'average load' rather than 'full capacity' as a result. It appears that people only put in about 3.5kg of washing regardless of the machine size.

A machine that is comfortably or fully loaded rather than partly loaded will generally spin better and without excessive vibration.

Miele machines are generally 6.5kg or larger these days and as an indication of capacity, my old 4kg Hoover stated a full load was 8...yes 8!!! single bed sheets and 8 pillow slips.

Any European machine will be capable of taking a KS cover and a bottom sheet...in fact, they'll take 2 of each, not be at 'capacity' and not even blanch at it. Don't be put off by what appears to be a smaller tub. Just fill it and go!

 

[bobo]

Our family of three don't have that much stuff to wash since we do the laundry every other day; it's only when we need to do the bed linens that a bigger machine will speed things up. Of course, we want our clothes and linens to last as well! My parent's bed is a Cal-King, while mine is a Queen size. Our present washer is a 20-pound TL, and the Cal-King bed linens fit fine. We have a "bed linen day" where we wash all of them in one day. If the Cal-King fitted sheet and duvet cover (our largest load) can be washed together, then we don't have to split that into another load and end up washing 3 loads. A family friend of ours has the Miele W4842, and I think it is too big for our needs. We will rarely reach half the capacity of that thing, except for the Cal-King bed set. The Speed Queen fits our needs - at least on paper - as it's got a 3.3 cu.ft drum, a size that's right between the Miele W3033 and W4842. Anyways, I found a dealer that carries both Speed Queen and Miele, and we'll probably go there tomorrow since it's close to our home.

 

[launderess]

Miele 4***** Series

First they have been discontinued by Miele, so if you want one better act quickly as dealers will not be getting anymore new stock. Rumor has it Miele was losing money on each unit and for that and other reasons decided to pull the plug.

Next though the 4xxx units are indeed large per directions in the owner's manual they are only loaded 3/4 drum max. This is opposed to say quasi and or "large" front loaders that follow the age old principles of loading the drum full leaving about a fist's worth of space at top.

 

[mrb627]

Long Wash Times

If you suspect the 24 minute wash time is too long, switch to the delicate cycle for lightly soiled laundry will cut it down to 14 minutes. You may have to add a stand alone spin only cycle to wring out your item, but the results should better fit your needs.

Malcolm

 

[tomturbomatic]

Good idea

Except that the Delicate cycle skips a spin between the rinses.

 

[bobo]

I guess a 24-minute wash isn't that bad, as we run 2 regular cycles (2x15mins of agitating) to make sure our clothes are clean. Maybe our washer isn't that great.....

 

[bobo]

Sorry, I forgot to add this in my previous post (I couldn't edit it): What is the wash/agitating time for Miele machines?

 

[mrb627]

Delicate cycle

The Delicate/Bulky cycle on my Imperial machine does not omit the pulse spins between rinses. The rinse program matches the other cycles exactly.

Malcolm

 

[qualin]

I think the biggest reason why the wash time is so long on the Huebsch/SQ machines is because the engineers were forced to bring down the water levels so the machine would use less water. Less water = More wash time required to get the clothes clean.

Since a few members on here like to increase their water level, (Cough Cough) that suddenly negates the need for the longer wash times. On the other hand, it really improves rinsing capability and takes more soap out of the clothes.

I personally find that my Huebsch front loader, even with its 25 minute wash cycle, is still more gentle on my clothing than the 8 minutes of washtime in my old GE top loader.

I do agree that it would be nice if Alliance sold a retrofit kit which could allow the user to select wash time and water level on their front loading machines. I would pay whatever Alliance would charge for a kit like that.

I think it is a shame that Miele discontinued their 48xx models. Their large capacity machine was on my shortlist next to Huesbch. The reasons why I picked the Huebsch over the Miele:

- Longer rated cycles. The Miele was rated to 15,000 cycles, the Huebsch to 25,000
- The Miele uses a composite plastic outer tub, the Huebsch uses a porcelain covered steel tub. Less potential for smell.
- Huebsch offered a 3 yr warranty, Miele only offered 1 yr. If Miele is so good, why don't they stand behind their products? Most other washer manufacturers are only 1 yr as well. (To add another 2 years to Miele would have cost $1000 extra.)
- The Demo set I looked at was a year old and both washer and dryer were $4000. The Huebsch set I bought was $1300 cheaper. It would have been $1700 cheaper if I had bought new.
- Huebsch machines are made in Ripon, WI. The Miele machines are made somewhere in Poland if my memory serves me right. So, waiting for parts isn't as long.
- Any commercial laundry equipment service depot can service a Huebsch. Their machines are mechanically identical to their laundromat equipment. Miele requires that the machine must be repaired by an authorized service depot.
- Much more intuitive controls. More knobs than buttons. Miele has no knobs, all buttons. This is more of a matter of personal preference.

The downsides to not buying Miele:

- The Huebsch has less cycles than the Miele. Then again, I don't see myself using a "Beach Towels" cycle anytime soon.
- The Huebsch has a 3.3 cu.ft drum, the Miele has a 4.0 cu.ft drum.

Uhm... that's about it. So, picking the Huebsch was a no brainer over the Miele.. Now, if I was living in Europe, the Miele would have been my first choice. (Hopefully, it would have been cheaper too.)

 

[Iowegian]

@tomturbomatic:

Thank you for the very informative post!

Do you feel that the fixed 24 minute wash time causes more wear on fabrics than a conventional top-loader set to a standard 8-12 minute wash cycle?

How would you rate the rinsing performance if you let the machine do its thing with the extra rinse function selected?

Part of my interest in the SQ FL is water savings. We pay right at $0.01/gal (water and sewer cost). We do about 9 full loads a week, so the FL's additional cost could be recovered in 5-1/2 to 7 years versus the SQ TL. Then, anything after that time would go "in the bank" so to speak.

 

[autowasherfreak]

I would love to have a SQ front loader, a SQ top loader, and for a dryer the SQ double dryer. If I'm going to dream, I'm going to dream big, LOL.

 

[Iowegian]

@ronhic:

The whole subject of machine capacity is something that should be much clearer than it really is. I remember when U.S. machines were rated by weight, but somewhere along the line, they changed to volume. And now there are different volume measurement methodologies (IEC and DOE) that make things less clear than ever. Probably even less so in the case of some front loaders that advertise 4+ cubic foot capacity, but owners complain about the machines not being able to find a balance solution to spin out and abort the cycle sometimes...

The Amanatag we have now has a 3.2 cubic foot tub IIRC. I think it is pretty close to the same size as the big Whirlpool DD machines that we owned previously. I think the Whirlpools may have been deeper but smaller diameter tubs.

The SQ FL has a 2.82 cubic foot capacity listed in one part of their website, but it also mentions 3.0 and 3.3 in other places. I imagine that number depends on the measurement method, though.

My better half, bless her, stuffed one of our Whirlpool DD machines full of throw rugs. Broke the coupler between the motor and transmission. But that was an easy fix - $5.00 for the part and about 30 minutes time. I really liked our DD Whirlpools. We owned three of them over a 25 year period and the only reason we ever got rid of any of them was because we sold them with our houses when we moved. In 25 years I replaced 2 pumps and one drive coupler - that's pretty darn good reliability in my book. Simple is good.

 

[Iowegian]

@mrb627:

Using the delicate cycle sounds like a reasonable work-around.

Do you add the separate spin cycle because the delicate cycle uses a lower spin speed?

Is the amount of wash water the same with regular, perm press and delicate?

Thanks

 

[Iowegian]

@qualin:

Thanks for the comparison between your Huebsch(SQ) and the large Miele machine.

$4k for a laundry pair? Wow! I wonder how many people that buy at that price point actually do their own laundry or have domestic help doing it. Kind of like the people that buy $7,000 ranges that are only used by the caterer.

 

[ronhic]

Capacity

I coiuldn't agree more. Capacity is very hard to determine when measurements differ.

All I can offer is that Europe and Oz still use the weight method to determine and enable comparison. Speed Queen front loaders here are rated at 8kg.

Now, on the issue of cycle times and wear on clothes. My own experience is that clothes, in general, will last significantly longer washed in a front load machine than they will if washed in a top-load machine. A wash component of 24 minutes isn't long either....my shortest 40c cotton wash on my machine is 68 minutes...38 minutes of that is washing, but there are 2 rinses and 3 spins that follow.

There is a reason front load machines don't have a lint filter. They don't need one as they produce significantly less lint which, in turn, means there is less wear on your clothes...