Yes--Would love to see "Energy Star" go away-let these energy and water issues be handled LOCALLY where it belongs and the decisions of customers WHERE IT BELONGS-Not the Know-nothing Govt!!What do they know about appliances??they need to read this site.I definely see the need for energy-water saving devices in areas where water and power is expensive-but why force it on everyone-whats the point-they are paying for something they may not need.FL machines are interesting--but like some vacuums-GROSSELY OVERPRICED to gain the benefit.Much like Hybrid cars that are started to be promoted.I have driven one-very nice-but its price isn't saving me any money no matter what the price of gas is.At the monthly payments the dealer quoated me for the car--it would actually be cheaper for me to hire a cab or limo to take me to and from work!!
Speed Queen Front Loaders/Commerical Models
- Thread starter frontloadfan
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well... Ida know fellas.
The mandated removal of gas pilot-lights (from most appliances) in their design and manufacture.
1) Saved huge amoutns of natural gas
2) Enabled gas appliances, esp. stoves to evolve forward self-clean and sealed burners.
3) Makes stove much cleaner and healhier-- they are not polluting the inddor air when not in use.
I know we all love our top-loaders and they are "home" no matter what happens. But the swich to a F/L is nto so major and an almost effortless way to save on water and chemicals.
(DUCKS AND RUNS....)
The saddest thing of all IMHO is that the change to F/L-ers has opened up the appliance mfg. market to foreigners.. and it appears to have been one of the last "all-American" industries.
On the plus side, an Asian window A/C with a domestic brand badge is now less than $100. Back in 1975 they were around $250.
Sadly also, the flimsy styrofoam n place of insulaed metal makes them MUCH queiter. Ditto Asian design type units with indoor cool-air discharge on right side of front, versus top of front.
*SIGH*
If you think that the gov't is getting involved in your personal affairs now, you should write to me and I'll tell you about propsed legislation that will BLOW you mind.
The mandated removal of gas pilot-lights (from most appliances) in their design and manufacture.
1) Saved huge amoutns of natural gas
2) Enabled gas appliances, esp. stoves to evolve forward self-clean and sealed burners.
3) Makes stove much cleaner and healhier-- they are not polluting the inddor air when not in use.
I know we all love our top-loaders and they are "home" no matter what happens. But the swich to a F/L is nto so major and an almost effortless way to save on water and chemicals.
(DUCKS AND RUNS....)
The saddest thing of all IMHO is that the change to F/L-ers has opened up the appliance mfg. market to foreigners.. and it appears to have been one of the last "all-American" industries.
On the plus side, an Asian window A/C with a domestic brand badge is now less than $100. Back in 1975 they were around $250.
Sadly also, the flimsy styrofoam n place of insulaed metal makes them MUCH queiter. Ditto Asian design type units with indoor cool-air discharge on right side of front, versus top of front.
*SIGH*
If you think that the gov't is getting involved in your personal affairs now, you should write to me and I'll tell you about propsed legislation that will BLOW you mind.
one of the biggest annoyances I have about the removal of standing pilots from ranges, water heaters, and other gas appliances is that the machines cannot be operated without an electrical connection! The installation of a new gas appliance usually means that an electrical connection also must be run to the new appliance's installation location
Building electronic ignition systems that run off of batteries, or just building the device in such a way that it can be match-lit has not even been a consideration of the manufacturers.
In my neck of the woods, we get frequent thunderstorms during the summer, and ice storms during the winter, that take down the power lines. Electrical outages have become a commonplace around here, especially since most of the lines are run above ground.
In my parent's home, we had gas everything, stove, dryer, water heater, furnace, and even a few outside lights. The beauty of this stuff is that even when the electricity was out, we could still cook, take a hot shower, and even heat the house, becasue the old floor furnace did not require any electricity for fans, relays, or ignition systems. These new-fangled gas appliance will not allow that to happen. My mom cannot even light her new stove with a match if the power goes out!
The biggest, most annoying thing about gas appliances these days outside of the simple fact they do require electricity, is while they are more efficient in the amount of gas they may use, their electricity usage is going up. That is information NOT published on the energy-guide sticker on the front. One of the things I shop for in a new appliance is the energy consumption numbers. Not publishing the TOTAL energy consumption over all sources to me is misleading.
Building electronic ignition systems that run off of batteries, or just building the device in such a way that it can be match-lit has not even been a consideration of the manufacturers.
In my neck of the woods, we get frequent thunderstorms during the summer, and ice storms during the winter, that take down the power lines. Electrical outages have become a commonplace around here, especially since most of the lines are run above ground.
In my parent's home, we had gas everything, stove, dryer, water heater, furnace, and even a few outside lights. The beauty of this stuff is that even when the electricity was out, we could still cook, take a hot shower, and even heat the house, becasue the old floor furnace did not require any electricity for fans, relays, or ignition systems. These new-fangled gas appliance will not allow that to happen. My mom cannot even light her new stove with a match if the power goes out!
The biggest, most annoying thing about gas appliances these days outside of the simple fact they do require electricity, is while they are more efficient in the amount of gas they may use, their electricity usage is going up. That is information NOT published on the energy-guide sticker on the front. One of the things I shop for in a new appliance is the energy consumption numbers. Not publishing the TOTAL energy consumption over all sources to me is misleading.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
gas/electricity
"In my parent's home, we had gas everything, stove, dryer, water heater, furnace, and even a few outside lights. The beauty of this stuff is that even when the electricity was out, we could still cook, take a hot shower, and even heat the house, becasue the old floor furnace did not require any electricity for fans, relays, or ignition systems. These new-fangled gas appliance will not allow that to happen. My mom cannot even light her new stove with a match if the power goes out!"
I haven't seen a tank-type water heater with electric ignition yet. In this case, the pilot heat isn't "wasted" since it helps keep the water warm.
Why can't your mom light the top burners with a match? I can do that on my gas range with electronic ignition, though the oven can't be lit that way.
Gas dryer still helpless without power.
manual gas furnace is great, except that heat distribution is poor even when you have power, sice there's no fan to circulate things
"In my parent's home, we had gas everything, stove, dryer, water heater, furnace, and even a few outside lights. The beauty of this stuff is that even when the electricity was out, we could still cook, take a hot shower, and even heat the house, becasue the old floor furnace did not require any electricity for fans, relays, or ignition systems. These new-fangled gas appliance will not allow that to happen. My mom cannot even light her new stove with a match if the power goes out!"
I haven't seen a tank-type water heater with electric ignition yet. In this case, the pilot heat isn't "wasted" since it helps keep the water warm.
Why can't your mom light the top burners with a match? I can do that on my gas range with electronic ignition, though the oven can't be lit that way.
Gas dryer still helpless without power.
manual gas furnace is great, except that heat distribution is poor even when you have power, sice there's no fan to circulate things
Ttoo bad appliance manufacturers don't add a pusbutton sparker as seen on BBQs, rather than a glow plug or sparker.
My 20 inch wide Avanti brand (Turkkish origin) gas stove uses a cliker to ignite. However ALL burners can be lit suring a vbalck-out. One simply holds in the oven/broiler for 15 ssonds until ignition is "proved".
Similarly due to its design, the oven-burner flame increases bnd decreases in size as it did back in the days of Robershaw brand mechanical gas controls
My 20 inch wide Avanti brand (Turkkish origin) gas stove uses a cliker to ignite. However ALL burners can be lit suring a vbalck-out. One simply holds in the oven/broiler for 15 ssonds until ignition is "proved".
Similarly due to its design, the oven-burner flame increases bnd decreases in size as it did back in the days of Robershaw brand mechanical gas controls
A good old fashioned
Wood Stove is always ready at my house for ignition.
But there is a very good point made here, pilot lights do have a purpose and electronic ignition is not energy free.
Down at the Cape by the sea the air moisture is so great all summer long that the thermocouple in our Boiler has to be replaced every 2 years because it gets so wet sitting there it corrodes. NOW when Boilers had pilot lights the heat generated kept the thermocouple hot and dry all summer and it worked for 10 years at a time without replacement.
I think we ALL HAVE To REDUCE our carbon emissions across the board and mandating that is necessary BUT in the case of Laundry as an example of individual choice I think it very important that the consumer have complete control over the cycles of the machine and still have clearly marked cycles that save energy.
The energy star guidelines don't ever say the Consumer Must do this or that with their washer so we should have the OPTION to step off the Energy Star merry go round when doing things in our homes.
Obviously I have issues with modern water usage in the new F/Loaders. Yes my Neptune does get things clean but I sometimes want alot of water exposure for my wash for various reasons and as a consumer I should not be prevented from having that option on the equipment I buy.
A law is not a law if you can't enforce it and when I am down in my basement doing laundry you can't enforce that.
Its like the first generation loflush toilets. Does anyone remember them? We all had to flush 2 & 3 times to get them to work which !DUH! used as much water as the older ones.
Whenever I have contacted Energy Star all I have ever gotten from them is nonsense answers. It is staffed by the most appliance ignorant group I have ever talked too.
They couldn't even tell me how they calculate drum size on front load washing machines!!
Wood Stove is always ready at my house for ignition.
But there is a very good point made here, pilot lights do have a purpose and electronic ignition is not energy free.
Down at the Cape by the sea the air moisture is so great all summer long that the thermocouple in our Boiler has to be replaced every 2 years because it gets so wet sitting there it corrodes. NOW when Boilers had pilot lights the heat generated kept the thermocouple hot and dry all summer and it worked for 10 years at a time without replacement.
I think we ALL HAVE To REDUCE our carbon emissions across the board and mandating that is necessary BUT in the case of Laundry as an example of individual choice I think it very important that the consumer have complete control over the cycles of the machine and still have clearly marked cycles that save energy.
The energy star guidelines don't ever say the Consumer Must do this or that with their washer so we should have the OPTION to step off the Energy Star merry go round when doing things in our homes.
Obviously I have issues with modern water usage in the new F/Loaders. Yes my Neptune does get things clean but I sometimes want alot of water exposure for my wash for various reasons and as a consumer I should not be prevented from having that option on the equipment I buy.
A law is not a law if you can't enforce it and when I am down in my basement doing laundry you can't enforce that.
Its like the first generation loflush toilets. Does anyone remember them? We all had to flush 2 & 3 times to get them to work which !DUH! used as much water as the older ones.
Whenever I have contacted Energy Star all I have ever gotten from them is nonsense answers. It is staffed by the most appliance ignorant group I have ever talked too.
They couldn't even tell me how they calculate drum size on front load washing machines!!
20 inch wide electric smooth-top
BTW=>
Did anyone notice in my linky above that Avanti now offers a 20 Inch (50 cm) electric range with a smooth-top ("glass"/ceran)?
Not sure abut elsewhere but that is news here...
Also speaking of *non-standard* sizes with TOL features... Sears has a 24 inch wide (60cm) electric free-standing range/oven self-cleaner.
BTW=>
Did anyone notice in my linky above that Avanti now offers a 20 Inch (50 cm) electric range with a smooth-top ("glass"/ceran)?
Not sure abut elsewhere but that is news here...
Also speaking of *non-standard* sizes with TOL features... Sears has a 24 inch wide (60cm) electric free-standing range/oven self-cleaner.
I want my T/L-er
Let's assume T/L-ers do eventually become restricted as to purchase here...
I am wondering if Canada and Mexico will still offer them for sale.
ROAD-TRIP!
Let's assume T/L-ers do eventually become restricted as to purchase here...
I am wondering if Canada and Mexico will still offer them for sale.
ROAD-TRIP!
