Speed Queen if listening- Brastemp got it right

[johnb300m]

That's fascinating Brisnat.
I had no idea other countries' older machines had reversing motors.
When did those start? I thought you needed more modern electronics to do that?
When did they get rid of the reciprocating transmissions like we used to have in the States up till just recently?

 

[cuffs054]

What is that neat long thingy attached to cap?

 

[brisnat81]

Hi John,

I've attached a previous post that Gizmo explains how it works. Scroll down to nearly the bottom.

We had the Reversing motor machines in the Simpson models by the mid 80's, with Hoover following in the early 90's with some models. Aside from F&P they were our three manufacturers left by that point.

Someone might be able to correct me, but I'm pretty sure they were single speed motors, for Gentle Agitate its just very very short sharp strokes with pauses. For gentle spin they did a sequence of Ramp ups and ramp downs.

This one is dirty, but its one of the last of the original non electronic design


The Japanese had reversing motor machines from the mid 70's with the GE Compact style machines, some of those had the Impeller other had the agitator.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?13034

 

[Chetlaham]

I've been saying it for two months now but no one listens to me- the VMW design is absolutely nothing new. Its a copy from the Asian market 40 years ago, which latter spread around the world outside of America.

The VMW design is simpler, cheaper, more efficient, and easier to fix. You do not need electronics, just something that will cycle power between the two (out of three) motor leads.

Speed Queen could have copied this design while being old school and not having a single semiconductor in the machine.

 

[Chetlaham]

Eco water level

Posted before, but for SQ / the Archives:



Said rinse water level can become the wash water level.

 

[combo52]

VMW Machines Are Easier To Fix

Hi Chet, They could be but are not necessarily cheap or easy to fix.

 

The WP machines that I have the most experience with from the 80s onward pretty much total themselves as soon as the main seal goes, it literately costs as much as a new washer if you use new WP parts to fix them and even though the current 2010 and forward WP VMW machines are designed to be easier to fix the cost of parts is prohibitive and we are junking them every week.

 

The WP DD washers for example are actually still cost effective to put new transmissions in etc.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

I would agree. However with good seals a VMW SQ could last 25+ years without a problem. Once that goes, or the gear case, it would involve junking the machine much like today's transmission SQs (assuming the same suspension is kept which I think should be).

 

[johnb300m]

I believe you Chet.
And the guy from AU.
I learned something and didn’t know the basic VMW architecture was around for so long.

 

[norgeway]

They will all go broke

If they depend on me to buy their garbage!Not as long as I can find a vintage machine!

 

[kb0nes]

"Speed Queen could have copied this design while being old school and not having a single semiconductor in the machine."

But then you lose all the ability to ramp and brake the motor in a controlled fashion. I just don't seem to see the advantage of needlessly making a machine crude.

I find it an interesting paradox using the Internet to share views of the fear of semiconductors...

 

[jetcone]

So Phil

I thought that motor was electronically controlled,, its not?? That motor reverses on its own somehow??

That Simpson is the machine my cousin had in Cairns

 

[speedqueen]

Not so much a fear of semi-conductors,

but a fear of cheaply made electronic controls. I think that it is quite apparent, with the number of board failures on modern machines vs the number of timer failures on slightly older machines, that while QUALITY electronics are more reliable than mechanical timers, the electronics made at a competitive price point to a quality timer are simply not. A fair quality mechanical timer is likely priced at around what the cheapest electronics cost, henceforth why timers lasted so long and why the replacement electronics on modern machines fail so soon. Even the electronics on TOL '80s and '90s machines were of better quality because they were not built to a price point.

Might I add to this with a reminder the average SQ customer did not want electronics at all cost. Also, electronics add no more features than timers could on TL machines, in fact I think that they are less flexible. You are stuck with the cycle programming and the options they gray out. Also, since when does everyone need 25 cycles of which there are only likely 4 real cycles backing them up with only minor changes changes to what the cycle lets you select. For example, I ask what is the difference on a TL washer with a separate full fill option between "Bulky" and "Heavy-Duty"?

 

[Chetlaham]

@Johnb: Thanks and no hard feelings Yup- its been around for a very long time- simple and elegant. And you aren't behind- I am learning a lot as well.

@kb0nes:

"But then you lose all the ability to ramp and brake the motor in a controlled fashion. I just don't seem to see the advantage of needlessly making a machine crude."

You don't need that level of precision control in a VMW. A simple rotating drum and a rapid advance timer is enough do mimic an electronic triac or thyristor control. For agitation you simply cycle power to each motor lead for 1/4 of a second with 1/5 of a second pauses in between. Far simpler then an electronic inverter polluted with computer chips generating 3 sine waves 120 degrees apart.

As for braking that has nothing to do with the motor. The timer drops power to the spin direction lead, and then a few seconds latter the pump shuts off which also causes the solenoid to let go applying the brake band to the drum. Even if electronics were present in the machine, they still would not be responsible for breaking.

"I find it an interesting paradox using the Internet to share views of the fear of semiconductors..."

Semiconductors have their place- but in a clothes washer I'd rather pass. My computer doesn't throw error codes, and when (if) it does there are automatic software updates to fix those bugs.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
This link provides a component by component comparison of the build quality of th DD vs VMW machines.

http://https//www.diyforums.net/whirlpool-old-direct-drive-vs.-newer-vmw-top-load-washers-1480.html

 

[kb0nes]

Jon, Jetcone

"I thought that motor was electronically controlled,, its not?? That motor reverses on its own somehow??"

I was referring to the machine that was mentioned in reply #23 that didn't have the scourge of any semiconductors in it apparently. Not sure what that machine was but it seemed a silly way to design something today. Sounds like there is some contactor that just flips states and reverses the motor or something. Hope they picked a good one or those contacts will fail before any transistor would.

This would be a good choice for those that really fear electronics, alas some convenience might be lost. lol

 

[Chetlaham]

Thats one way, or being less silly, a separate rotating disk or drum in the timer which rapidly cycles the two leads. Most washers did it that way before semiconductors came along. It worked well with no issue.