Many here have seen these guys' videos. They've always been proponents of SQ. This one poses an interesting theory (and it is only a theory) about the real motivation behind the radical changes in the company's washers.
Speed Queen in 2018: Theory About The Motivation For Redesign
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speedqueen
Well-known member
One problem with that...
I can understand were he is going, but there is one flaw with his theory, they already have a use for all of those FL washer parts, the Horizon soft-mount commercial washer. According to a conversation with John Lefever, there is NOTHING different internally and the only differences are the coin box(some don't even have that) and price.
Full disclosure, I like Spats & Harley's videos, they do a lot of interesting things with vintage items.
I can understand were he is going, but there is one flaw with his theory, they already have a use for all of those FL washer parts, the Horizon soft-mount commercial washer. According to a conversation with John Lefever, there is NOTHING different internally and the only differences are the coin box(some don't even have that) and price.
Full disclosure, I like Spats & Harley's videos, they do a lot of interesting things with vintage items.
repair-man
Well-known member
Completely ridiculous........
Addmittedly I haven't actually checked for myself but I can't see any possiblility that many parts from the front load machines fit the new top load. Even if a few are the same Speed Queen doesn't have 50,000 of them in inventory like this guy suggests. And the cost of R and D for the new design and retooling the factory would far exceed the savings of 50,000 parts. LOL. The bigger question that remains in my mind is not the new TL design but why discontinue the FL. I would have kept the old design and possibly make small changes to improve performance and efficiency. Then spend the money saved on the FL line.
Addmittedly I haven't actually checked for myself but I can't see any possiblility that many parts from the front load machines fit the new top load. Even if a few are the same Speed Queen doesn't have 50,000 of them in inventory like this guy suggests. And the cost of R and D for the new design and retooling the factory would far exceed the savings of 50,000 parts. LOL. The bigger question that remains in my mind is not the new TL design but why discontinue the FL. I would have kept the old design and possibly make small changes to improve performance and efficiency. Then spend the money saved on the FL line.
wash action and build quality
I was nervous about the wash action. But after I saw the extreme test that Kirk put through, I can argue that it cleans clothes well with some tlc. I know I'm gonna get slammed for saying that.
I love how the new speed queen washer sounds and cleans. I compare the Maytag Bravos' brutal torture to Speed Queen's tender loving care approach.
What to I mean by this? When you wash your clothes in most modern washers that are top loaders especially of the HE variety, clothes will start to wear out more when rubbed by the impeller violently - in some cases not getting them clean. Speed Queen's approach is having the clothes collide into each other in a tub full of water moving in violent currents as opposed to beating dirt out of them. What are your thoughts?
I was nervous about the wash action. But after I saw the extreme test that Kirk put through, I can argue that it cleans clothes well with some tlc. I know I'm gonna get slammed for saying that.
I love how the new speed queen washer sounds and cleans. I compare the Maytag Bravos' brutal torture to Speed Queen's tender loving care approach.
What to I mean by this? When you wash your clothes in most modern washers that are top loaders especially of the HE variety, clothes will start to wear out more when rubbed by the impeller violently - in some cases not getting them clean. Speed Queen's approach is having the clothes collide into each other in a tub full of water moving in violent currents as opposed to beating dirt out of them. What are your thoughts?
I don't buy it. Why would SQ have all these extra "mechanisms" lying about? He states in the video that they will continue to sell the FL machines until stock runs out. One would think their procurement would be smart enough to not order scads more of one part of the machine then others leading to an excess of one part or another.
Removing the transmission is a huge cost reduction. They are likely able to use some parts (or at least similar engineering work) for the motor controller in the new machine. The new design is mechanically much simpler and will likely be more reliable as a result also.
Personally I am a HUGE proponent of using solid state motor drives and computer control. Once a computer is added to the mix then sensing and adaptability are easy to implement. This is moving forward instead of just making them "like they used to". Taken to an extreme we'd all still be rubbing our jeans on a rock in a stream if engineering didn't strive to improve.
I HATE that they decided to leave the residential FL market, that is just a lame decision. Perhaps they just decided they really aren't interested in playing in the consumer/residential market. I'm sure the commercial market is more lucrative to them and they have a lot less headaches from commercial users. The commercial users are way less likely to turn to the bully pulpit of social media and bash the product. Also commercial users are less likely blame the machine for their inability to learn how to use it. Stinky FL syndrome is a user failure, but we sure read a lot about the bad machine design online. Social media and the way people are quick to blame while not accepting any responsibility will end up destroying a lot of what we love in the long run.
Removing the transmission is a huge cost reduction. They are likely able to use some parts (or at least similar engineering work) for the motor controller in the new machine. The new design is mechanically much simpler and will likely be more reliable as a result also.
Personally I am a HUGE proponent of using solid state motor drives and computer control. Once a computer is added to the mix then sensing and adaptability are easy to implement. This is moving forward instead of just making them "like they used to". Taken to an extreme we'd all still be rubbing our jeans on a rock in a stream if engineering didn't strive to improve.
I HATE that they decided to leave the residential FL market, that is just a lame decision. Perhaps they just decided they really aren't interested in playing in the consumer/residential market. I'm sure the commercial market is more lucrative to them and they have a lot less headaches from commercial users. The commercial users are way less likely to turn to the bully pulpit of social media and bash the product. Also commercial users are less likely blame the machine for their inability to learn how to use it. Stinky FL syndrome is a user failure, but we sure read a lot about the bad machine design online. Social media and the way people are quick to blame while not accepting any responsibility will end up destroying a lot of what we love in the long run.
The internet is full of fake news. I hope speed queen can take some legal action against clowns who think they are youtubers.
This Video Is Total bulls..t
I am sorry I wasted the 5 minutes it took to watch it.
There are 0 parts in the new 2018 TL washer that would fit the FL machines except possibility a few screws and fasteners.
SQ has no intention of leaving the residential market.
The FL washers are going to remain in production unchanged for the commercial market, so there are no extra parts lying around on the factory floor, LOL
John L.
I am sorry I wasted the 5 minutes it took to watch it.
There are 0 parts in the new 2018 TL washer that would fit the FL machines except possibility a few screws and fasteners.
SQ has no intention of leaving the residential market.
The FL washers are going to remain in production unchanged for the commercial market, so there are no extra parts lying around on the factory floor, LOL
John L.
Speed Queen have dropped ball pure and simple. No reputable appliance manufacturer, that engages in serious R&D to develop products to better meet the requirements of modern life, would have gone down this path. I question the quality of SQ management. That is where the buck stops. They should be the ones explaining why they are not interested in turning SQ into a modern premium product.
50 k parts?
Who makes 50k parts in advance? Specially nowadays that we use "Jit-FIFO" (Just in time, first in, first out)
Maybe production has 50k screws or 50k zip ties, but never 50k transmissions. It would be extremely stupid.
In our SCAW2GEN production line, for example... we always try to have 14 transmissions ready and we can never exceed 21 units ready because we have exactly 22 slots on the conveyor. 1 is reserved as an error margin.
The inventory for parts (raw material) should never exceed the lot plus 10%. each lot is 200 units, plus 20 The exceeding is saved and every 5 lots we make a lot with the excess.
This makes muhc easier to control the lots and if something goes wrong, it is much easier to track everything (suppliers, retailers, final consumers)
Make one lot with 50k parts ready for final assembly is a complete nonsense and the production engineer that does that will probably be sent to the HR office and ket a foot on his ass for causing a real nightmare in the production.
Then marketing and sales would have to do whatever they can to get rid of ready products, maybe with a huge sale, and production would have to speed at maximum, to get rid of that inventory ASAP.
Full warehouses (both for inventory or final products) equals a huge loss for the manufacturer. We fill warehouses ONLY when we know a new model will be really fantastic.
We had the opposite problem a few months ago when we released the SCAW2GEN. The engineer decided not to apply some of the features I included and made some last minute changes. We decided to be carefull and make only 20 lots. We were not expecting a huge success. Statistically, 20 containers would last around 7 months in our warehouse here in the US. as we have enough space in our warehouse that would be ok for us. To make the story shorter, the first stock ended in 8 days. We made other 20 containers, after nearly 20 days out of stock, it arrived and sold out in 6 hours. Third lot we were smart enough to make only 10 containers. 1 container was immediately delivered because of the backorders, 3 other containers sold in 4 days, and we have 6 containers waiting in our warehouse. Sales stabilized.
And our company is tiny. For a company like speed queen, selling 50k units to get rid of inventory is not a rocket science. How many dealers they have all over the world? divide 50k by the number of dealers.... super easy to sell 50 units for each.
Who makes 50k parts in advance? Specially nowadays that we use "Jit-FIFO" (Just in time, first in, first out)
Maybe production has 50k screws or 50k zip ties, but never 50k transmissions. It would be extremely stupid.
In our SCAW2GEN production line, for example... we always try to have 14 transmissions ready and we can never exceed 21 units ready because we have exactly 22 slots on the conveyor. 1 is reserved as an error margin.
The inventory for parts (raw material) should never exceed the lot plus 10%. each lot is 200 units, plus 20 The exceeding is saved and every 5 lots we make a lot with the excess.
This makes muhc easier to control the lots and if something goes wrong, it is much easier to track everything (suppliers, retailers, final consumers)
Make one lot with 50k parts ready for final assembly is a complete nonsense and the production engineer that does that will probably be sent to the HR office and ket a foot on his ass for causing a real nightmare in the production.
Then marketing and sales would have to do whatever they can to get rid of ready products, maybe with a huge sale, and production would have to speed at maximum, to get rid of that inventory ASAP.
Full warehouses (both for inventory or final products) equals a huge loss for the manufacturer. We fill warehouses ONLY when we know a new model will be really fantastic.
We had the opposite problem a few months ago when we released the SCAW2GEN. The engineer decided not to apply some of the features I included and made some last minute changes. We decided to be carefull and make only 20 lots. We were not expecting a huge success. Statistically, 20 containers would last around 7 months in our warehouse here in the US. as we have enough space in our warehouse that would be ok for us. To make the story shorter, the first stock ended in 8 days. We made other 20 containers, after nearly 20 days out of stock, it arrived and sold out in 6 hours. Third lot we were smart enough to make only 10 containers. 1 container was immediately delivered because of the backorders, 3 other containers sold in 4 days, and we have 6 containers waiting in our warehouse. Sales stabilized.
And our company is tiny. For a company like speed queen, selling 50k units to get rid of inventory is not a rocket science. How many dealers they have all over the world? divide 50k by the number of dealers.... super easy to sell 50 units for each.
Speed Queen!
I don't think we will ever know the real full truth on this one! I am slightly a bit more impressed than when I first saw it! I am sure it is built very well and their was a great cost reduction in building this machine but not much thought was given to the washing performance. I think that a lot of people that are speaking about it now in a positive way are just saying it to be politically correct so they wont be dropped or fired by speed queen! In my opinion the people that actually designed this machine are very text book savvy but don't know much about getting laundry clean! Today in order to keep a good paying job you need to be politically correct. And I may not be 100% correct but I am sure it had a lot to do with this unit being rolled out! Even though I am a bit more impressed than at the start - I wouldn't pay $1000 for a adjtub design washer! ( I still feel they could have put in a better adigator on this machine) aside from that you can spend $400 and get a TL washer that will be a better performer!
As for the front load - I am sorry they dropped it - it is the best one I saw out their! To bad they couldn't just cut down on the production! Again I think it all comes down to politics!
Peter
I don't think we will ever know the real full truth on this one! I am slightly a bit more impressed than when I first saw it! I am sure it is built very well and their was a great cost reduction in building this machine but not much thought was given to the washing performance. I think that a lot of people that are speaking about it now in a positive way are just saying it to be politically correct so they wont be dropped or fired by speed queen! In my opinion the people that actually designed this machine are very text book savvy but don't know much about getting laundry clean! Today in order to keep a good paying job you need to be politically correct. And I may not be 100% correct but I am sure it had a lot to do with this unit being rolled out! Even though I am a bit more impressed than at the start - I wouldn't pay $1000 for a adjtub design washer! ( I still feel they could have put in a better adigator on this machine) aside from that you can spend $400 and get a TL washer that will be a better performer!
As for the front load - I am sorry they dropped it - it is the best one I saw out their! To bad they couldn't just cut down on the production! Again I think it all comes down to politics!
Peter
Peteski, you said something very, very interesting.
My boss (Corey) says exactly the same and it clearly reminds me Electrolux and now my work at The Laundry Alternative.
At electrolux everything was monumental, enourmous, gorgeous (to impress investors) and everything was based on numbers (AKA cost reduction vs profit vs % of the market vs how much the company is going to grow this trimester.
Now at the laundry alternative, we have the freedom to create what we want, when we want (or can), because we have to satisfy the consumer. Profit is important, of course, but we can be more flexible with the profit margins, show the middle finger to D.O.E., etc.
Exactly at this moment i have 4 projects on my desk and today the CEO authorized me to start three other projects that I always wanted to do.
His only question was? Is it doable? Can we make it without draining the drawer? If yes, and if you think you can handle 7 completely different projects at once, go ahead.
My boss (Corey) says exactly the same and it clearly reminds me Electrolux and now my work at The Laundry Alternative.
At electrolux everything was monumental, enourmous, gorgeous (to impress investors) and everything was based on numbers (AKA cost reduction vs profit vs % of the market vs how much the company is going to grow this trimester.
Now at the laundry alternative, we have the freedom to create what we want, when we want (or can), because we have to satisfy the consumer. Profit is important, of course, but we can be more flexible with the profit margins, show the middle finger to D.O.E., etc.
Exactly at this moment i have 4 projects on my desk and today the CEO authorized me to start three other projects that I always wanted to do.
His only question was? Is it doable? Can we make it without draining the drawer? If yes, and if you think you can handle 7 completely different projects at once, go ahead.
One of the first things that came to mind when watching the video was, "If the new machine was using front-loader parts, John (combo52) or Eugene (lorainfurniture) would have mentioned that," as they've seen the 2018s torn down in service training.
For me, the takeaway is that SQ will exit the residential market. I truly believe that will happen within the next couple of years. Alliance's willingness to pull their residential front-loader from the market almost immediately upon putting the 'new look' line on the market speaks volumes. Even John refused to believe it when someone first posted about it.
I see it playing out this way: Unless you want the stacked front-load version, your only SQ choice is the new top-loader. The backlash is already fierce because Alliance abandoned much of what people championed about their top-loader in the first place. If the machine doesn't sell well, I think they will pull the plug on their residential line. It's a pretty small slice of their overall output to begin with. It will become more bother than it's worth to them.
Or we're all wrong and the 2018 is going to be a big hit with the general public.
For me, the takeaway is that SQ will exit the residential market. I truly believe that will happen within the next couple of years. Alliance's willingness to pull their residential front-loader from the market almost immediately upon putting the 'new look' line on the market speaks volumes. Even John refused to believe it when someone first posted about it.
I see it playing out this way: Unless you want the stacked front-load version, your only SQ choice is the new top-loader. The backlash is already fierce because Alliance abandoned much of what people championed about their top-loader in the first place. If the machine doesn't sell well, I think they will pull the plug on their residential line. It's a pretty small slice of their overall output to begin with. It will become more bother than it's worth to them.
Or we're all wrong and the 2018 is going to be a big hit with the general public.
Speed Queen Home Laundry In 2018
Hi Eugene, I really don't think they have any intention of leaving the residential market they put way too much money in the new TL machine and it is not suitable for commercial use along with the fact that commercial TL washers are really disappearing from the market anyway for many reasons and they have way too much manufacturing capacity of TL washers not to keep selling the new TL machines.
Another reason that they won't discontinue the new TL washer is the threat of a lawsuit from current SQ dealers, there is already talk of such a suit because of dropping the FL washer and if the sales plummet on the new TL machine Alliance might have legal problems as well.
For the record the FL stack is already out of production, our distributor has just a dozen left, I bought one this week for a small condo building on Capital Hill so the owners could wash larger loads and have a way to wash & dry clothing when their tiny 120 volt LG combos that are in all the apartments are on the fritz.
John L.
Hi Eugene, I really don't think they have any intention of leaving the residential market they put way too much money in the new TL machine and it is not suitable for commercial use along with the fact that commercial TL washers are really disappearing from the market anyway for many reasons and they have way too much manufacturing capacity of TL washers not to keep selling the new TL machines.
Another reason that they won't discontinue the new TL washer is the threat of a lawsuit from current SQ dealers, there is already talk of such a suit because of dropping the FL washer and if the sales plummet on the new TL machine Alliance might have legal problems as well.
For the record the FL stack is already out of production, our distributor has just a dozen left, I bought one this week for a small condo building on Capital Hill so the owners could wash larger loads and have a way to wash & dry clothing when their tiny 120 volt LG combos that are in all the apartments are on the fritz.
John L.
harleybadger
Member
Alright, look...
Have any of you *never* predicted something and had it not come true?
Give me a break.
Spats and I were contacted by a lady who claimed to be from Alliance, had an Alliance email address, and said she was a product engineer and fan of our channel. She gave me the information regarding the front-loader parts being used in the top-loaders. This was clearly mentioned in other videos of ours, yet "conveniently left out" by the nay-sayers. If you want to claim that me spouting a number off the top of my head, like "fifty thousand extra parts," then you have obviously never used an expression such as "told you a million times," or "I've been waiting in line forever." The choice to split hairs and assume that I was quoting the precise number of parts contained within their building is on you, not me.
SQ's OWN WEBSITE SAID that SQ was "discontinuing all their residential laundry machines," exactly as I indicated. Obviously, they did not. I do not know if they changed their minds, if it was bull to begin with, I simply do not know... I have nothing to do with their website and if the information they post will end up happening or not.
It took them what, one model year to bring the old design back? Well at least I was right about *something.
Consumer Reports indicated "one of the worst-performing top-loaders we have ever tested."
I want to thank you, John L. for being such a prick in the comments. That was unneccesary, I thought all us were on this site for the same reason. "Didn't happen," or "nope, you were incorrect" are different than jeering and dickish behavior. Shame on you.
Have any of you *never* predicted something and had it not come true?
Give me a break.
Spats and I were contacted by a lady who claimed to be from Alliance, had an Alliance email address, and said she was a product engineer and fan of our channel. She gave me the information regarding the front-loader parts being used in the top-loaders. This was clearly mentioned in other videos of ours, yet "conveniently left out" by the nay-sayers. If you want to claim that me spouting a number off the top of my head, like "fifty thousand extra parts," then you have obviously never used an expression such as "told you a million times," or "I've been waiting in line forever." The choice to split hairs and assume that I was quoting the precise number of parts contained within their building is on you, not me.
SQ's OWN WEBSITE SAID that SQ was "discontinuing all their residential laundry machines," exactly as I indicated. Obviously, they did not. I do not know if they changed their minds, if it was bull to begin with, I simply do not know... I have nothing to do with their website and if the information they post will end up happening or not.
It took them what, one model year to bring the old design back? Well at least I was right about *something.
Consumer Reports indicated "one of the worst-performing top-loaders we have ever tested."
I want to thank you, John L. for being such a prick in the comments. That was unneccesary, I thought all us were on this site for the same reason. "Didn't happen," or "nope, you were incorrect" are different than jeering and dickish behavior. Shame on you.
I wonder
what Speed Queen will do to the TR series? They could've added a pump that creates a massive wall of water everywhere all throughout the tub. They should make the drain holes large enough for dirt and soils to pass through.
what Speed Queen will do to the TR series? They could've added a pump that creates a massive wall of water everywhere all throughout the tub. They should make the drain holes large enough for dirt and soils to pass through.
All I know is that sales tanked so badly they had to bring back the former design before the 2018 design since there weren’t many complaints about the 2017 models that I am aware of other than their dryers which tend to get quite hot at times.
@harleybadger: Well said. Right, wrong or indifferent people should be able to voice are their facts, knowledge, feelings, opinions and findings without judgment.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
Reply #13
There was a rumor on here that the TC5 is only a limited model from Speed Queen and that they're focusing on their TR series. I honestly can care less about what they would do with their TR series but I seriously hope that the TC5 won't be going away anytime soon.
There was a rumor on here that the TC5 is only a limited model from Speed Queen and that they're focusing on their TR series. I honestly can care less about what they would do with their TR series but I seriously hope that the TC5 won't be going away anytime soon.
Anybody here have a link to what all these SQ models are?
