robliverpool
Well-known member
I bought a creda spin dryer a few months back that spins at 2800rpm as my beko washing machine only spins at 1400rpm and it doesn't remove anymore water than the washing machine does.
Spin Speeds
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davetranter
Well-known member
800 spin
An 800 rpm spin probably removes more moisture than a single pass through a mangle/wringer, but not enough for economical drying (see my post from a couple of years ago on the subject of 'Spin Dryers'). My Electrolux WH818 leaves laundry too wet to place into a tumble dryer. It's line dry only for anything washed in it.
The Good Lady's 1450 rpm Zanussi delivers laundry almost ready to iron dry.
Hope this helps
All best
Dave T
An 800 rpm spin probably removes more moisture than a single pass through a mangle/wringer, but not enough for economical drying (see my post from a couple of years ago on the subject of 'Spin Dryers'). My Electrolux WH818 leaves laundry too wet to place into a tumble dryer. It's line dry only for anything washed in it.
The Good Lady's 1450 rpm Zanussi delivers laundry almost ready to iron dry.
Hope this helps
All best
Dave T
IIRC
Best mangles/wringers can do would equal 400 rpms in a spin cycle.
Keep in mind there are limits to how tight you can make mangle/wringer rollers before causing problems for both the device and or anything being put through.
Best mangles/wringers can do would equal 400 rpms in a spin cycle.
Keep in mind there are limits to how tight you can make mangle/wringer rollers before causing problems for both the device and or anything being put through.
Being as we are a land of "ahem" cheap natural resou
Which are or at least thought to be infinite, high final spin speeds haven't mattered as much say compared to Europe. Once clothes dryers became the norm for most households excess moisture was just "baked" out of laundry.
Our local Laundromat just got refitted with new SQ front loaders that give a much better extraction. Previous units left some items very wet IMHO. Indeed have often said things spun in my Miele and taken to dry finished faster than loads washed there and then dried.
Which are or at least thought to be infinite, high final spin speeds haven't mattered as much say compared to Europe. Once clothes dryers became the norm for most households excess moisture was just "baked" out of laundry.
Our local Laundromat just got refitted with new SQ front loaders that give a much better extraction. Previous units left some items very wet IMHO. Indeed have often said things spun in my Miele and taken to dry finished faster than loads washed there and then dried.
Some Asko's spin at 2000rpm's...but that's the Volvo of the lineup. Mine just goes 1000, but that's not a problem for my GE gas dryer.
Perhaps you can explain....
The old TL Maytag apparently maxed out around 800 rpm, laundry certainly felt damp....drying time for towels 40 minutes on regular heat....now with the new Electrolux FL max rpm is reportedly 1400 and the laundry is almost dry coming out....why should I expect drying times in a condensor dryer to be an hour or more with so much less moisture involved? Also why is a condensor more efficient when it seems to be using more electricity to run that additional length of time?
The old TL Maytag apparently maxed out around 800 rpm, laundry certainly felt damp....drying time for towels 40 minutes on regular heat....now with the new Electrolux FL max rpm is reportedly 1400 and the laundry is almost dry coming out....why should I expect drying times in a condensor dryer to be an hour or more with so much less moisture involved? Also why is a condensor more efficient when it seems to be using more electricity to run that additional length of time?
Condensing dryers are just slower than vented ones - that's just their nature.
Whether vented or condenser is more efficient depends on whether you mean a regular condenser dryer that uses cold air or a modern heat pump condenser dryer. The regular (air) version is probably always the least efficient. Vented dryers use a little less energy. Heat pump dryers are, despite their long cycles, the most efficient. Of course, there are many variables: a normal condenser gives off hot air that could help heat your house, a vented dryer can suck out AC'd air etc. etc. And if you have a gas dryer, it might be even cheaper than an electric heat pump dryer.
Whether vented or condenser is more efficient depends on whether you mean a regular condenser dryer that uses cold air or a modern heat pump condenser dryer. The regular (air) version is probably always the least efficient. Vented dryers use a little less energy. Heat pump dryers are, despite their long cycles, the most efficient. Of course, there are many variables: a normal condenser gives off hot air that could help heat your house, a vented dryer can suck out AC'd air etc. etc. And if you have a gas dryer, it might be even cheaper than an electric heat pump dryer.
liberatordeluxe
Well-known member
I found when I had a Hotpoint for a short time the 800 rpm speed was good because it spun for a decent amount of time. I usually use 1000 or 1200 on Bosch and is ample. Washing doesn't take long to dry in summer or winter with the central heating or log burner on.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Condenser dryers
I'm a little confused on terminology. The condenser dryer I had used a trickle of cold water in to condense moisture out of the wet, heated air from the laundry drum. This dryer did NOT give off hot air into the house. AFAIK, all condenser dryers currently for sale in the U.S. work the same way. What is the name of this type of condenser dryer?
I assume this is not an "air" condenser dryer. Is there a thread somewhere explaining how they work?
Thanks,
Jim
I'm a little confused on terminology. The condenser dryer I had used a trickle of cold water in to condense moisture out of the wet, heated air from the laundry drum. This dryer did NOT give off hot air into the house. AFAIK, all condenser dryers currently for sale in the U.S. work the same way. What is the name of this type of condenser dryer?
I assume this is not an "air" condenser dryer. Is there a thread somewhere explaining how they work?
Thanks,
Jim
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
My Maytag TL spun at about 750, IIRC. A full load of towels took about an hour in the GE gas dryer I had. The GE HE Hydrowave Eco-B.S. spun at just under 1000. I'd wash in the Maytag then rinse&spin in the GE. Clothes spun in the GE took about 15 minutes less to dry than if I put them in directly from the Maytag.
Jim
Jim
Condenser (Ventless) Dryers In USA
Maytag, Hotpoint and Frigidaire all had "ventless" condenser dryers back in the 1950's. The first two were water cooled and the last used the same air/condenser coil system found in European (non-heat pump) condenser dryers today. The Frigidaire only extracted 50% (give or take) of he moisture according to CR, the rest was sent into the room.
By the 1970's or sooner no American appliance manufacturer offered condenser dryers of any sort. But in the 1980's or early 1990's you started to see imports of European versions by Asko, Miele, Creda, Malber, Equator and maybe a few others. Malber and Equator used water cooling systems, and the rest closed condenser coil systems.
As to why condenser (non-heat pump units) take longer and consume slightly more energy than vented dryers is a simple matter of physics and design.
With a vented dryer a constant flow of heated and dry air replaces the moisture laden air that is sent out of the dryer. This results in slightly faster drying times. OTOH condenser dryers are like air conditioners or refrigerators with only "half" a cooling system. That is they rely purely upon the difference between ambient room temperature air and what is inside the dryer to remove moisture. Because the air circulating is often somewhat still moisture laden it cannot pick up as much when it returns to the clothes. Much depends upon the climate/air temperature and humidity levels of the place where the condenser dryer is located.
It comes as no surprise that condenser dryers are popular in Northern European countries where outside venting isn't possible. During the colder months those countries provide the ideal climate (cool to cold) so the dryer can take in such air and thus "condense" more moisture out of a load of laundry.
OTOH during a hot humid NYC summer, or really any place where it is warm to hot and humid a condenser dryer will take ages to finish a load if it can complete it at all. You can get good results by turning on the air conditioner (provides that aforementioned cool and dry air), but then you are not only using energy to dry laundry but to cool the house and make the dryer work.
Can only use my AEG condenser dryer from about November to March or early April. Once outdoor temps begin to climb into the high 50's or above it just isn't worth the bother. As it is my "compact" Whirlpool portable will dry a full load faster than the condenser dryer.
Being as all this may again condenser dryers weren't about energy efficiency from a start. More how to solve a problem of using a tumble dryer where venting wasn't possible.
Case in point many new apartment developments in NYC are featuring laundry facilities with condenser dryers. This is mainly because the laundries are being located where access to an outside wall (for venting) isn't possible. When you are converting a former Verizon, Woolworth, MET Life, building and or dealing with other issues involving creating apartments in the City you have to think outside of the box.
All this being said condenser dryers do leave things with a wonderful scent. They also leave terry towels and other items more fluffy and soft than vented dryers IMHO. That however in no way endears them to me that much more.
Maytag, Hotpoint and Frigidaire all had "ventless" condenser dryers back in the 1950's. The first two were water cooled and the last used the same air/condenser coil system found in European (non-heat pump) condenser dryers today. The Frigidaire only extracted 50% (give or take) of he moisture according to CR, the rest was sent into the room.
By the 1970's or sooner no American appliance manufacturer offered condenser dryers of any sort. But in the 1980's or early 1990's you started to see imports of European versions by Asko, Miele, Creda, Malber, Equator and maybe a few others. Malber and Equator used water cooling systems, and the rest closed condenser coil systems.
As to why condenser (non-heat pump units) take longer and consume slightly more energy than vented dryers is a simple matter of physics and design.
With a vented dryer a constant flow of heated and dry air replaces the moisture laden air that is sent out of the dryer. This results in slightly faster drying times. OTOH condenser dryers are like air conditioners or refrigerators with only "half" a cooling system. That is they rely purely upon the difference between ambient room temperature air and what is inside the dryer to remove moisture. Because the air circulating is often somewhat still moisture laden it cannot pick up as much when it returns to the clothes. Much depends upon the climate/air temperature and humidity levels of the place where the condenser dryer is located.
It comes as no surprise that condenser dryers are popular in Northern European countries where outside venting isn't possible. During the colder months those countries provide the ideal climate (cool to cold) so the dryer can take in such air and thus "condense" more moisture out of a load of laundry.
OTOH during a hot humid NYC summer, or really any place where it is warm to hot and humid a condenser dryer will take ages to finish a load if it can complete it at all. You can get good results by turning on the air conditioner (provides that aforementioned cool and dry air), but then you are not only using energy to dry laundry but to cool the house and make the dryer work.
Can only use my AEG condenser dryer from about November to March or early April. Once outdoor temps begin to climb into the high 50's or above it just isn't worth the bother. As it is my "compact" Whirlpool portable will dry a full load faster than the condenser dryer.
Being as all this may again condenser dryers weren't about energy efficiency from a start. More how to solve a problem of using a tumble dryer where venting wasn't possible.
Case in point many new apartment developments in NYC are featuring laundry facilities with condenser dryers. This is mainly because the laundries are being located where access to an outside wall (for venting) isn't possible. When you are converting a former Verizon, Woolworth, MET Life, building and or dealing with other issues involving creating apartments in the City you have to think outside of the box.
All this being said condenser dryers do leave things with a wonderful scent. They also leave terry towels and other items more fluffy and soft than vented dryers IMHO. That however in no way endears them to me that much more.
arbilab
Well-known member
One has a WP/KM dryer with wheels? So does this one. If one accounts for its smaller capacity (rather than cramming 18# all at once), one finds drying times quite satisfactory.
Sure a 'full' load takes 2x 40min, which is only a practical disadvantage if one's time is more valuable than electricity of which it uses less than half (per min).
Since one (first person) moved into a goobermint geezer compost heap which disallows private laundry gear, one (third person) could acquire the 1984 Lady Kenmore for a donation to the antihistamine fund plus shipping.
Sure a 'full' load takes 2x 40min, which is only a practical disadvantage if one's time is more valuable than electricity of which it uses less than half (per min).
Since one (first person) moved into a goobermint geezer compost heap which disallows private laundry gear, one (third person) could acquire the 1984 Lady Kenmore for a donation to the antihistamine fund plus shipping.
Spin Speeds
Hi Jim, Traditional Dependable Care MTs only spin at 610 RPMs on a good day, while this is still much better than an old WP belt drive it is a far cry from 750 RPMs.
Which brand of water cooled condenser dryer did you have?
Hi Jim, Traditional Dependable Care MTs only spin at 610 RPMs on a good day, while this is still much better than an old WP belt drive it is a far cry from 750 RPMs.
Which brand of water cooled condenser dryer did you have?
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
My bosch rates as 53% moisture left in clothes after a spin, which is relatively low. Even an 1,800 spin is down to 48 - 50% but it depends on how long the machine spins for and the size of the drum.
To Put It Another Way
When CR tested dryers in the late 1950's the two water cooled condenser dryers took 47 minutes to nearly one hour to dry an average eight to ten pound wash load. They also used copious amounts of water to do so.
OTOH gas and electric dryers at best only took 27-30 minutes to do the same, with the worst nearly as bad as condenser dryers at nearly 47 minutes. Fastest dryers were those with "Speed" in their brands/names such as the offering by Lady Kenmore and Whirlpool (IIRC).
Two factors; final spin speeds of both top and front loading washing machines of the time were poor compared today. You also had a good many homes still using wringer/semi automatic washing machines. So even with a "hot" dryer you still had on average more moisture to evaporate out of laundry than today.
The other thing and this is something I didn't know previously is that many early dryers didn't offer venting to the outside and or it was an option. Plenty of machines simply spewed lint and moisture laden air right into the same room as the dryer. Unless a fresh supply of cool make up air was allowed into the room one assumes drying times may have suffered.
The best and even middle of the line condenser dryers are better sealed than those of the past, but they still will take a quarter to twice the time of a vented dryer to accomplish the task at hand.
When CR tested dryers in the late 1950's the two water cooled condenser dryers took 47 minutes to nearly one hour to dry an average eight to ten pound wash load. They also used copious amounts of water to do so.
OTOH gas and electric dryers at best only took 27-30 minutes to do the same, with the worst nearly as bad as condenser dryers at nearly 47 minutes. Fastest dryers were those with "Speed" in their brands/names such as the offering by Lady Kenmore and Whirlpool (IIRC).
Two factors; final spin speeds of both top and front loading washing machines of the time were poor compared today. You also had a good many homes still using wringer/semi automatic washing machines. So even with a "hot" dryer you still had on average more moisture to evaporate out of laundry than today.
The other thing and this is something I didn't know previously is that many early dryers didn't offer venting to the outside and or it was an option. Plenty of machines simply spewed lint and moisture laden air right into the same room as the dryer. Unless a fresh supply of cool make up air was allowed into the room one assumes drying times may have suffered.
The best and even middle of the line condenser dryers are better sealed than those of the past, but they still will take a quarter to twice the time of a vented dryer to accomplish the task at hand.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
I had an Equator 3600(E?). It was the model with the lint buildup issue. Once a month I'd have to take the top off, remove a fan cowling and scopp out all the lint. Outside of that rather famous (as I recall) design flaw, I had no problems at all.
Mind you, I actually read and followed the manual after a few unsatisfactory washes. I also scoured the internet for tips and tricks. The user reviews were about 90% negative. However, even back then I could tell that most of the people writing either didn't know how to use the machine or had inappropriate expectations.
I'm apparently one of the few people who had an overall positive experience with Equator.
I just wish someone would make a separate 120v condenser dryer. with that and a combo one could do a load, put half into the dryer and let the combo dry the other half.
Mind you, I actually read and followed the manual after a few unsatisfactory washes. I also scoured the internet for tips and tricks. The user reviews were about 90% negative. However, even back then I could tell that most of the people writing either didn't know how to use the machine or had inappropriate expectations.
I'm apparently one of the few people who had an overall positive experience with Equator.
I just wish someone would make a separate 120v condenser dryer. with that and a combo one could do a load, put half into the dryer and let the combo dry the other half.
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
My Bosch Serie 6 is a 1400 spin 8kg drum and the clothes come out noticeably drier than my previous Hotpoint Aquiltis which had a 1200 spin, but didn't spin for as long.
