Spray Rinse

[boss302]

I have a Kenmore DD 110.92584100 that recently started acting up during the spin cycle. It spins normal then after spinning it stops and adds a small amount of water and then it is done. I thought it had to be the timer so I replaced it with a new timer, still doing the same thing. I am assuming the small amount of water it is adding is supposed to be a spray rinse but it isn't spinning. I am at a loss.

 

[blockeight88]

I have a very similar model to yours. It's doing pretty much doing that. I ordered a replacement timer today. Has your timer original? If so, I would take a pretty good guess it's starting to fail.

 

[DADoES]

 
Boss302 / Jim,

The two sprays are spray rinses at beginning of the spin.  The motor isn't running so there's no spin, which is the source of the problem.

The replacement timer was new-stock, or did you get a used one (or perhaps rebuilt/repaired from a refurbisher service)?

Does the problem occur on a slow spin-speed selection?  Does it occur on the Ultra Clean cycle after the wash drain (during the rinse spin) or in the spin after 2nd Rinse if you turn on that option? Does it occur in the same way on the other two timer cycles, Normal and Permanent Press?

Also just to say, your machine should do a neutral drain after wash (or rinse) agitation, before spin engages.  Your video shows a spin-drain, which will occur if there's no preceeding period of agitation to reset the mechanical neutral drain mechanism inside the transmission (i.e. if you filled in some water for the video test then immediately set the timer to a drain position).  Spin-drain shouldn't occur during normal operation unless there's a problem with the neutral drain components.  That being said, neutral drain failure isn't a fatal condition and is not related to the motor not running.

Your machine was manufactured in August of 1994.

 

[boss302]

The replacement time is new and acting identical to the timer I removed.

I just watched it again going thru the entire cycle. After rinse agitation the motor ran for a split second then started spinning drum, so I do think there is a neutral drain issue. So it looks like there is no spin, although it spins out at the end of the wash cycle, is that maybe not supposed to be a spin and should be a neutral drain instead? Thank you so much for your help. I bought this set new and has been awesome.

 

[coldspot66]

You could have gotten a bad timer. When the washer is in the final spin and no motor, jiggle the timer knob to see if the motor comes on. I have replaced them more than once. Defective out of the box, or someone returned a faulty timer to get a refund.

 

[boss302]

BlockEight88, I already replaced the timer and it didn't do anything for it. By the way I used to live in Crown Point. Waiting to see what DadoEs says.

 

[qsd-dan]

When the neutral drain component(s) fail, the tub will spin up (sometimes immeadilty, sometimes during the neutral draining process) when it should be neutral draining, then stop, then spin up again according to the factory specs.

 

Not sure why it's adding water towards the end of the spin cycle unless it's during the actual spin portion of the cycle as programmed by the factory. It's pretty rare that new timer will fail in the exact same manner but not impossible. Does the machine eventually continue spinning until the very end of the entire cycle or does it hang up?

 

 

[DADoES]

 
All the cycles should function such that after each of the wash and rinse agitation periods:  momentary pause of the motor, restart for neutral drain of two minutes (the motor runs but no agitation or spin), another brief pause, motor restarts for spin.

Fill
Wash Agitation
Neutral Drain
Spin (may or may not be sprays depending on the timer programming)
Fill
Rinse Agitation
Neutral Drain
Spin (probably always two sprays)
[2nd Rinse is a repeat of fill, agitate, neutral drain, spin]

The Permanent Press cycle has a cool down after the wash:  momentary pause, partial drain (until the water level pressure contacts reset) with another longer pause for the remainder of the 2-min drain increment until the timer advances, refill (always select a cold rinse for Perm Press or the cool down has no purpose) and agitate two minutes, then proceed with a full drain, spin, rinse/agitate, drain, spin as outlined above.

Operation of the motor is electrical.  The motor reverses direction for agitation vs. spin.  The timer of course pauses the motor before a reversal so it first coasts to a full stop.  The pump always runs with the motor -- spin direction it drains, agitate direction it pushes the water into the tub outlet instead of pushing it out the drain hose.

Neutral drain is a mechanical function inside the transmission, via springs and weighted cams that hold or allow the spin gear to rotate.  A brief period of agitation is required to set the mechanism so the spin gear is held stationary at the next motor reversal.  Another pause releases the hold, then restart in the same direction spins the basket.  Setting the timer directly to a drain or spin position after a full cycle has ended will result in immediate spin since no agitation has yet occurred to set the neutral drain mechanism.

Seems your no-spin problem is electrical since the motor is not running (per the video).

Could be the speed selector switch is bad?  Neutral drain is always at high speed so the motor circuit likely is hard-wired through the timer, doesn't go through the speed switch during drain.  Spin speed is selectable so the motor current goes through the switch during spin periods.  Agitation is a different path through the switch to allow different combinations of agitation and spin speed.

You didn't say if it spins when a low spin speed is selected.

 

[boss302]

It spins at the end of the wash cycle, is that different than the spin cycle?

 

[boss302]

I just tested it. I turned the timer to the spin section and nothing was happening. I changed the wash selector to hang dry which is slow spin and it started spinning. Now when I switch it back to fast spin it works. I am guessing the selector switch contacts are probably going bad. I will source a new switch. As far as the neutral drain goes, do most of you generally replace the gear case? I bought this new in ‘94 & I know it is the original gear case. Or do you tear apart and repair?? Thanks for the help.

 

[qsd-dan]

Or do you tear apart and repair??

Tear it apart and repair, the newer gearcases are noisy due to worn out tooling. Removing and installing a transmission is very easy in these and installing the neutral drain kit is very straightforward. There are several YouTube clips on doing the job.

 

 

 

[boss302]

Awesome. Thank you all for your input.

 

[boss302]

Alright, thanks to everyone's help I have replaced the neutral drain kit, while I was in there I replaced the clutch, I bought this set new and it had never been apart, it had the 6 pad clutch in it already. I also replaced the speed switch. Working like a new one now. No more spinning the tub full of water, that has to cause some undue strain on the timer and switch contacts as well as the motor. Must be pulling some amps spinning a full tub of water and clothes. Just wanted to let everyone know it is up and running well. Trans sounds a little noisier than it did before. Filled it with Mobil 1 75w90 synthetic gear lube. Seamed a bit thinner than what I drained out. I am sure the protection is just fine, just louder. If I ever have it out again I will fill with 85/140 or Lucas.

 

[blockeight88]

So replacing the speed switch resolved the extra spray rinse?

 

[boss302]

It wasn't actually an extra spray rinse, it was a spray rinse that wasn't a spray rinse because it wasn't spinning, so it just dumped a small amount of water in the tub.

 

[blockeight88]

Well I am glad everything is working as it should now.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

All I hope that his passing was quick and painless

And I hope the house explosion wasn’t intentional but regardless how it happened or what happened it’s just a life taken way too soon

PS sorry if I don’t really sound all that Caring and empathetic, I’ve had a long day and I’m kind of tired but that doesn’t excuse me from trying to pay my respects