SQ vs. other companies

[brisnat81]

Hi Olav

Its a 1978 4.5kg Miele W423, 120L total, Prewash - Mainwash - 5 Rinses. As soon as I can find the owners guide I'll scan the testing/consumption page.

You're correct, in the 1980 Choice review there was the Miele and Bendix FL machines available in Australia. Each was about $700-$1300 vs $300-$600 for the TL machines. I've attached the Miele supplement from where they compared it to the Simpson. Even in 1980, the running costs for the Miele were 4c/kg vs 8c/kg for the Simpson. The Choice review is suggesting 146L for 4.5kg vs 181L for 5kg in the Simpson, for the Miele that works out to 20L per fill for 7 fills.

Mum soaked the whites in a bucket because they took days to accumulate (mainly socks, Jocks and Singlets, with only 3 school uniforms per child, she had to wash every other night.

The early 4.5kg machines are far smaller than what's on the market these days. Have you used a modern 5-6kg FL machine? I have those in the Miele versions, plus an 8kg Maytag Centenial. The Maytag vs the Miele's are about lineball capacity wise, regardless of the rating.

 

[rapunzel]

Having to wash school uniforms as well, there is sometimes the need to launder only a couple of things at a time. On average I collect all my laundry and do full loads whenever possible, but it is great that I can throw in a pair of pants or a shirt by itself, when needed. Front loaders are not really designed for that. Half loads are fine, but anything less is not optimal.

Thanks for that review, I remember those old Simpsons when they came out. They weren't a bad machine at all. I had a compact BOL model that came with the unit I was renting in inner Sydney during the late 80s. It was a heavy machine for its size and washed really well.

 

[ronhic]

You've forgotten

Hoover.
 
Hoover sold front load machines in Australia from the mid-1960's until they stopped manufacturing here, though they are again available. Originally imported, they became locally produced from the mid-late 1970's and stayed that way until around 1999.
 
They were also affordable.
 
My Hoover Electra 550 was $800 in 1994 and lasted (a friend) until 2012. Rated at 4kg, it was promoted in the handbook as capable of taking of load of 8 single bed sheets. That's equivalent to 4 queen size sheets and pillow cases.
 
Choice have just tested washing machines in the past month or so. Choice test using a part load of 3.5kg which is the average that consumers actually wash regardless of the size of their machine. They also test using a cold, normal cycle or one that is as close to that as possible
 
This time they've tested the larger version of my Beko, which incidentally, has the same drum size as the 6.5kg machine.
 
So, how'd it fare compared to a Speed Queen they also tested?
 
Beko:
Cost - $1030
Wash - 77%
Rinse - 87%
Spin  - 69%
Water - 62L
Gentle - 68%
Cycle - 87m
Running Costs - $631
Power - .175kw
 
 
Speed Queen:
Cost - $2300
Wash -  54%
Rinse - 97%
Spin - 53%
Gentle - 63%
Water - 171L
Cycle time - 41m
Running costs - $1633
Power - .202kw
 
So in summary, the Beko is:

- less than half the price

- costs 1/3 the amount to run over 10 years

- is more gentle on clothes despite the longer cycle

- removes 23% more dirt

- uses less than 40% of the water

- and extracts more during spin

 

I'll concede that it doesn't rinse quite as well, but I can introduce another rinse @ 15L if it was required.

 

Given the prime reason is to 'clean clothes', even if every other variable was the same, that 23% better dirt removal score is the kicker.

 

I only paid $600 for my Beko (with 12kg OMO...that's basically $60). My mothers F&P badged Beko is now 7yrs old and hasn't had an issue. If in 10 years I have to replace it, I'll have saved more than double the replacement cost in comparison anyway along with having cleaner clothes that have lasted longer.

[this post was last edited: 4/18/2015-22:36]

 

[lordkenmore]

> If you want lasting, thoughtful and genuine change, you don't try and foist it on a reluctant public who are change averse by incentivizing the manufacturers and then hitting them with a big stick if they don't comply. The sensible way to do it is to pay the public when they choose the 'correct path'. So, rather than dish out huge sums to the likes of Whirlpool etc. to change their machines to sell to the public, give the public a rebate when they buy a machine that meets certain energy/water requirements. This then forces the manufacturer to provide what the public demands and enables the public to have choice without feeling that they've had their 'right to choose' removed from them.

Yes, I have to agree that some approach that "rewards" ordinary buyers for choosing efficiency has a lot of merit. But my Inner Cynic says "Good luck" getting that to happen in the current political climate. I'm sure there are Republicans out there who, in fact, would take the opinion of "I don't care about peasants like LordKenmore, and I don't really care about environmental issues, but I sure do care about big corportations and my big, rich CEO friends of those corporations."

 

[ronhic]

Here it was done by State governments and Councils.

 

....and the American political system is a WHOLE different beast as are the American population.

 

[lordkenmore]

Perhaps one approach to get people to embrace HE washers in the US would be to turn to using subliminal messages on TV programming for the masses to absorb what they watch people make fools of themselves on reality TV or whatever. Perhaps this message: "You want a washer that uses three drops of water. You want this washer. You will go to Home Depot in the morning and buy it. You will..."

 

[ronhic]

If that's all it takes, that's fine.

 

You don't need litres of cream and fillet steak to be a good cook. Likewise, the test above proves you don't need to spend lots of money or use huge quantities of water to effectively wash or rinse clothes.

 

 

[rapunzel]

Whatever CR rates SQ washers has nothing to do with how clean my clothes are. If 88% is the highest rating for clean they achieve in their lab, then that is how clean my clothes are when I've finished laundering them.

The tax payer funded rebate programs, to encourage the purchase of fully imported front loaders, has been a failure and example of government ineptitude. The (tens or even hundreds)of millions wasted on this would have been better spent on keeping our own whitegoods industry alive and wiser heads could have put this money towards more effective water management through other means. Now we've only got iron ore and Chinese people and stores full of (toxic) imported junk, that is environmentally unsustainable, overpriced, poor value for money and probably causes cancer.

State governments and councils have no business micro-managing the public and most of the crap they perpetrate is useless and primarily for their personal benefit and not ours. Australian politics and the people, who populate the upper echelons of our public service organizations, are inherently corrupt, inept and not that bright.[this post was last edited: 4/20/2015-00:17]

 

[midcentnurse]

I'll just say the rest dont make em like they used to.. This old Whirlpool got some of the nastiest work rags clean everytime we used it. A capful of unflavored ALL and the heaviest cycle it had, which as you can see is limited and really clean towels emerged.
It might be hard to see the washer was bought in 1999. They saved every receipt, (EVERY receipt!) I dont know what year the dryer is but works awesome, delicious natural gas

 

[midcentnurse]

I took the center cap off to see why the upper part of the agitator seemed like it was slipping and not really turning the load, it's because it was slipping.. the cams inside were worn and not locking in the forward motion, easy fix probably but for someone else in the near future.
But I also have to say there really is something more comforting about these older top load washers compared to my new space age LG Front loader.. anyone else have thoughts, words on that?

 

[washer111]

Good to see some of the Aussie members making a nice contribution here. I personally appreciate the points raised. 

 

For Rapunzel, in Reply #37:

I think this is the attitude a lot of people here have, but can't find the right words...

People find that the best-rated machines don't clean properly, and wonder what they did wrong. 

Machines that are maligned in these tests can sometimes show everything else up. 

 

Perhaps it boils down to how long our clothes sit, what detergent we use, or something. 

 

And I personally admit to having hideous trouble with our Miele and dirt (mud) stains from the garden, and that wonderful yellowing on shirts around the armpits. How many times do I have to wash the damned thing before it comes clean (With top-rated Omo detergent, at that)? (Even cool pre-washes, hot water in-wash, extra detergent and in-wash boost won't shift it. Only soaks lasting days that can ruin clothes shift it, well, paticularly the dirt. Pre-treating the pit-stains with detergent/water seems to work). 

 

[henene4]

... and chinese people ...

I would take a look at what I would say on the internet. Such expressions could be easily interpretated as some kind of racial discrimination. Just so you don't run into any problems...

 

[rapunzel]

Don't worry Henene4 I don't racially discriminate. I call it what it is. I don't know how you refer to Chinese people, but here in Australia that is what we call them. They are racially and ethnically Chinese and they were born in China, that makes them Chinese; I guess. What do you call them?

 

[henene4]

I call them the same, but in context of your post it is pretty easy to think it was a down-set on them. And I know the Chinese are a pretty damn proud kind of people as I got to know them -which by any means is not ment negative-; they are really easy to upset in such aspects...

 

[rapunzel]

The Chinese are safe with me, but am I safe with the Chinese?

 

[henene4]

Most likely. Probably even safer.

 

[ronhic]

Olav

First. It was Choice magazine not CR. Get it right if you're going to launch a tirade aimed at my posts please.  

 

Second. You claim that the taxpayer funded schemes to encourage the use of water saving appliances has failed. How about some proof to back your statement?  

 

You specifically take aim at imported Front Load machines, yet most schemes were never specifically aimed at them. Every appliance that was appropriately rated was eligible. That includes Australian made machines of the time.  

 

Third. You categorically fail to mention any other factors that could be at play regarding the whitegoods industry in this country. Namely three key points:  

 

- It's a small industry. 23 million people is not a large market.

- By 2004 it was completely owned by foreign companies.

- A combination of free trade agreements and currency made it uneconomical to manufacture here.  

 

With the reduction in trade tariffs and steady increase in the value of our currency over the past years, everything has become  cheaper from underwear to Volkswagons. The reduction in trade tariffs in particular, have made any item that was purchased as little as 10 years ago not only cheaper in comparison dollar:dollar, but also in real terms thanks to wages growth with the occasional bonus of currency value.  

 

As you would know, you can still go into ANY retailer in this country and purchase a washing machine that can use north of 15 L/kg to wash your clothes if you wish. They're still there. Still available....  

 

....but they still don't wash as well as my, or for that matter 95% of, Front Load machines on the market in this country today.  

 

Finally. As an Australian Commonwealth Public Servant, I find your statement copied below personally offensive.  

 

'Australian politics and the people, who populate the upper echelons of our public service organizations, are inherently corrupt, inept and not that bright.'  

 

No, not perfect. Yes, certainly fallible and with significant room for improvement. BUT, you have a choice. If you personally don't like it that much. If you really feel that this country is run by people who are 'inherently corrupt' and who are 'inept and not that bright', then please either run for politics yourself, assist in the election process of a party which is at least deserving of your vote or simply go and live in a country that meets/exceeds your high standards.

 

[mayfan69]

HERE HERE HERE CHRIS!!!!!

Thanks you Chris for putting it so eloquently!

I couldn't agree more!

Olav, I myself am a Commonwealth Public Servant and I too found your comments offensive. Having worked in the private sector and then into public service, I have never taken for granted the privelages that come with this position.

Just like Chris has stated, if you don't like the way this country is run, then either run for politics yourself or go live somewhere else.

I , for one, feel blessed for living in this beautiful country.

I think I know who not to invite to any wash-ins i may hold.

 

[rapunzel]

Well, that is good to know Leon that you never took your position for granted. I am quite familiar with many different NSW public service departments and had to deal with all levels of state public service employees including state politicians. Through my business I also contact Federal Government Ministers on a regular basis and I fail to be impressed by most of these 'talented' people and, no, I have no intention to enter politics to do it better. The system is too corrupted.

Sure, ordinary employees like yourself are not the problem, but move up the hierarchy and you are dealing with a completely different mentality and egos. Anyway, if you want to be indignant and offended on behalf of the entire Commonwealth Public Service that is your right. I reserve the right to express my opinions. If you don't like them that's okay, but it isn't my problem. As for living in a beautiful country, you are right. Australia is very beautiful, but our government isn't my fault nor is the greed that motivates everything that happens. I've probably lived here longer than you Leon and I remember an Australia that was a place of opportunity, but that has, over the time I've lived here, been turned into a haven for opportunists. I am not interested in discussing politics with you. I own the comments that I have made above and I stand by them.

P.S. So it was Choice, well, my mistake. Thank you for setting me straight Rhonic. [this post was last edited: 4/20/2015-19:16]

 

[twinniefan]

Yellow armpit stains

Washer 111,
You may not have any luck with the dreaded yellowing underarm pit stains,some years ago in utter desperation contacted the stain removal expert? at Colgate Palmolive and sought her help.
She told me that after washing the anti-perspirant deodorant actually sets in the fibres and is really difficult if not impossible to remove without damaging the garment.
The only tip she could give me was to try putting a hot iron on the armpit hold it there until the heat steams the sweat out and dissolves the anti-perspirant deodorant, however in the time it takes this to work, the iron will most likely burn the garment, which I found was the case.
In the end I just bought new shirts and only sprayed deodorant on sparingly.
Ronhic, I was interested in your comment about your clothing lasting longer when washed in your F.L., I think this might becoming a little problem for me with the L.G. T.L., I bought several new polo shirts about 6 or so months ago and have noticed pilling starting to happen on them already, I wonder if the pulsating wash action may be becoming a little too abrasive for them, I have actually started on some washes to over-ride the auto water level selections in order to put a bit more water in to see if this helps out.

 

[washer111]

Thanks Twinniefan for your suggestion;

 

The one shirt this had become apparent one was ironed weekly. You'd notice an "odor" of sorts when running over the armpit areas. I've found that either a quick cool rinse beforehand, or pre-treating with liquid has practically removed the stains. 

 

[ronhic]

have noticed pilling starting to happen on them already

Steve,

 

Sometimes it can be down to the quality of the fabric, but I can honestly say that I have never experienced pilling of any sort on my clothes unless it's a high contact area due to wearing them such as socks in shoes.

 

Towels are another area that can be prone to issues in a top load machine. Sure, again it can be dependent on the quality of the fabric, but I've got them ranging from Woolies supermarket cheapies to Dickies to Sheraton and none of my towels have pulls on them. Some are well over 15 years old which is in complete contrast to my sister and several friends who are top load users (F&P/Simpson/Hoover). The bathsheets we were given as dog blankets by one fussy friend are so bad they look like they've been cat-shredded.

 

Whilst the effects of lower water levels in front loaders has undoubtedly reduced their gentleness a tad, their wash action of 'lift drop' is significantly less abrasive than a top loader. With the reduction in water levels in top loaders, this abrasive action is markedly increased as clothes scrub against each other without the lubricating effect of reasonable amounts of water. As a result, over-riding the auto water level should reduce the pilling (and linting), but negates one of the advertised benefits of 'just enough' water to do the job.

 

[twinniefan]

Thanks Chris

Thanks for the response Chris, you are probably right these shirts were made in Bangladesh or some such place and the fibre quality is somewhat suspect I guess.
I have noticed over-riding the preset water levels in helping a bit.
I think I had better start deciding to either pay some more and get better quality garments or accept the fact I will be replacing them every 6 months or so.
Or maybe just maybe retire the L.G. and go for a new F.L.!!!(Stop it Steve, Stop it I say L.O.L.)HHmm I do like the Euromaid 5kg F.L.

 

[mrb627]

Washing Instructions?

Out of curiosity, what are the washing instructions on the damaged shirt? I would wager a guess that gentle or hand wash cycle and dry with low heat is on the tag. I was shocked when I discovered that 75% of my clothes had similar washing instructions. Almost nothing said anything about a cycle that was non-gentle.

Malcolm

 

[suburbanmd]

Gentle cycle?

Is there a standard definition for gentle cycle? IIRC, on my last agitator TL (Whirlpool DD, though I didn't know about such things when I got rid of it) the gentle cycle differed from regular cycle only in using slower spin speed. Might reduce wrinkling but not fabric wear. I figure the regular Custom cycle on my Miele FL is gentle enough for most anything I have, no matter what the care label says. We never use the Delicate cycle (high water level, so won't clean as well), but my wife uses the Handwash cycle (high water level and intermittent tumbling) for stuff labeled handwash.

 

[twinniefan]

Washing instructions

Hello Malcolm,

The washing instructions are pretty basic for here really, just normal wash in warm or cool water and warm iron.

I had a look at most of my wardrobe just now seeing that you mentioned about the 75% or so being similar and it is pretty much the same here for me.

Thanks.

Steve.

 

 

[norgeway]

My two cents..

If they still made sland front Lundromats or real Bendixes, I would have a front loader, As for what is cheaper to make, belt drive or direct drive...Why did Whirlpool abandon their wonderful washer design in the 80s for that thing they made later, I know some love them, but as long as I can keep a belt drive running, When I cant I will get a Speed Queen!I don't worry one bit about water usage, Is it cheaper to have to run your clothes thru twice??? Which is what many do.

 

[norgeway]

sland front!!??

Well, I used to be able to spell!!