St. Charles Cabinets, Thermador DW.
- Thread starter xpanam
- Start date
I'd like to get a closer look at the Thermador. Just for the sake of curiosity, mind you. I wonder if it's one of those with the staggered square shaped wash arms.
I don't see it mentioned in the ad copy. Maybe there's a rider that requires the buyer to take it as part of the deal.
I don't see it mentioned in the ad copy. Maybe there's a rider that requires the buyer to take it as part of the deal.
xpanam
Well-known member
Ralph me too, I belive the wash system was called Tower of Shower?
Oh my!
I'm sure they have a good reason to rip that out not that I can imagine one.
I'm sure they have a good reason to rip that out not that I can imagine one.
norgeway
Well-known member
I can tell you why...
They are taking it out....IGNORANCE!!!!! I would give almost anything for that kitchen, nothing today is anywhere close, just throw out that oven and cooktop and install some nice vintage models!!!
They are taking it out....IGNORANCE!!!!! I would give almost anything for that kitchen, nothing today is anywhere close, just throw out that oven and cooktop and install some nice vintage models!!!
<span style="font-size: medium;">Maybe they finally got rid of the ole' bag, time to cash in. They seem awfully pristine. I suspect a repaint at some point. </span>
cyclemonitor
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2011
- Messages
- 581
Tower of Shower
wash system
wash system
"Sweeping Tower of Shower spray actually provides scrubbing action, does not merely soak soil away."
Ahhh, the gold old days of automatic dishwashing...
That is a beautiful kitchen. I saw a St Charles kitchen at a sale a couple of months ago that had wooden doors on the upper cabinets and metal on the lower. They could do most anything you wanted. Love those built-in storage features.
Ahhh, the gold old days of automatic dishwashing...
That is a beautiful kitchen. I saw a St Charles kitchen at a sale a couple of months ago that had wooden doors on the upper cabinets and metal on the lower. They could do most anything you wanted. Love those built-in storage features.
estatesale_gary
Well-known member
One man's trash
In a side note - at least it is being sold.
A while back a large home in my neighborhood was sold and the land was slated for redevelopment. The home had a very nice yellow GE kitchen. In early December the kitchen was on craigslist locally for $500. I walked my dog past the house each day and never saw tire tracks in the snow - then the day after X-mas the house came down in a day. I'm assuming that the kitchen was destroyed with the house.
In a side note - at least it is being sold.
A while back a large home in my neighborhood was sold and the land was slated for redevelopment. The home had a very nice yellow GE kitchen. In early December the kitchen was on craigslist locally for $500. I walked my dog past the house each day and never saw tire tracks in the snow - then the day after X-mas the house came down in a day. I'm assuming that the kitchen was destroyed with the house.
I feel robbed
All my young life when I should have been lusting after guns and footballs all I really wanted was a St. Charles Kitchen. And now they're out of business. And I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting really sick of all of these "Bob and Debbie" la-di-da Smallbone-Wannabee kitchens. They look soooooooooooooooooo smarmy. I want my kitchen to look like a kitchen, not Liberace's sports closet. Even this modern ski-chalet nightmare would be better:
All my young life when I should have been lusting after guns and footballs all I really wanted was a St. Charles Kitchen. And now they're out of business. And I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting really sick of all of these "Bob and Debbie" la-di-da Smallbone-Wannabee kitchens. They look soooooooooooooooooo smarmy. I want my kitchen to look like a kitchen, not Liberace's sports closet. Even this modern ski-chalet nightmare would be better:
firedome
Well-known member
Good news, bajaespuma
St Charles has recently risen from the dead - the name and product has been brought back and a news conference to that effect was held sometime last year in NYC... there was considerable coverage of this on http://www.retrorenovation.com, I think it was maybe last summer... the Bad News? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
St Charles has recently risen from the dead - the name and product has been brought back and a news conference to that effect was held sometime last year in NYC... there was considerable coverage of this on http://www.retrorenovation.com, I think it was maybe last summer... the Bad News? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
stevet
Well-known member
Parts is Parts!
Does anyone have a parts or service manual for that dishwasher? I would love to see how it was built.
Does anyone have a parts or service manual for that dishwasher? I would love to see how it was built.
Uh, no
...on both counts:
"If that dishwasher was anywhere near Tucson, it would have been snapped up by now."
I'm allowed to collect if it washes dishes. I can have a Tappan dual-drench if I do the dishes by hand in the sink. That's the deal. ;-)
This is a real Thermador, not Waste King cruft. It's a totally different machine, and well-constructed. So much so, in fact, that Thermador switched to the rebadged Waste King-Universal design due to its lower cost of construction (and correspondingly reduced durability).
A Masterpiece is, well, a masterpiece.
...on both counts:
"If that dishwasher was anywhere near Tucson, it would have been snapped up by now."
I'm allowed to collect if it washes dishes. I can have a Tappan dual-drench if I do the dishes by hand in the sink. That's the deal. ;-)
This is a real Thermador, not Waste King cruft. It's a totally different machine, and well-constructed. So much so, in fact, that Thermador switched to the rebadged Waste King-Universal design due to its lower cost of construction (and correspondingly reduced durability).
A Masterpiece is, well, a masterpiece.
Wow -- not even to play with just for a little while? Well, I know there are space issues, and that you're expecting . . . :-D
But it might be a Royal Deluxe too! That could bode well for smooth quiet operation if using the SNL bit with the back seat bris as a point of reference.
But it might be a Royal Deluxe too! That could bode well for smooth quiet operation if using the SNL bit with the back seat bris as a point of reference.
Thermador dishwasher
Actually I have a parts & service manual for this machine, as well as an operation guide. I picked one of these up in 1998 from a damaged house next to where I was living at the time (Hayward, CA). It wasn't built very well, but it did have a very powerful pump (which gave a very powerful wash action). It was a Gorman-Rupp pump, the same used in Whirlpool's first spray arm machine. The only difference was that it also had an extra pump on the rear of the motor for a drain pump (similar to the KD-14 drain pump add-on). Unfortunately the drain pump shaft seal was damaged, and I was unable to find a supplier or repair shop who could supply the seal. I had to chuck it, but not before getting that Gorman-Rupp pump!
Steve I will be happy to scan them to you, and Robert I will send them to you for the archive.
Actually I have a parts & service manual for this machine, as well as an operation guide. I picked one of these up in 1998 from a damaged house next to where I was living at the time (Hayward, CA). It wasn't built very well, but it did have a very powerful pump (which gave a very powerful wash action). It was a Gorman-Rupp pump, the same used in Whirlpool's first spray arm machine. The only difference was that it also had an extra pump on the rear of the motor for a drain pump (similar to the KD-14 drain pump add-on). Unfortunately the drain pump shaft seal was damaged, and I was unable to find a supplier or repair shop who could supply the seal. I had to chuck it, but not before getting that Gorman-Rupp pump!
Steve I will be happy to scan them to you, and Robert I will send them to you for the archive.
RD II
LOL! That was hysterical. What was that, a Mercury Monarch?
LOL! That was hysterical. What was that, a Mercury Monarch?
danemodsandy
Well-known member
St. Charles Redux - NOT.
St. Charles was resurrected for a time - by the Viking Range people. There was a huge publicity push, and it got a lot of press - I did a product feature about it for Modernism Magazine.
Sadly, the product was seriously, seriously expensive, not the swiftest move in today's economy. A single base cabinet was over two grand. Sales were about what you'd expect, with the result that Viking threw in the towel last year.
If someone else is trying to have another go at it, more power to 'em, but I can't imagine anyone would after the Viking debacle.
St. Charles was resurrected for a time - by the Viking Range people. There was a huge publicity push, and it got a lot of press - I did a product feature about it for Modernism Magazine.
Sadly, the product was seriously, seriously expensive, not the swiftest move in today's economy. A single base cabinet was over two grand. Sales were about what you'd expect, with the result that Viking threw in the towel last year.
If someone else is trying to have another go at it, more power to 'em, but I can't imagine anyone would after the Viking debacle.
Real Thermador DW
This was the earlier version than the one shown in the brochure that was posted here, this DW had the same wash system but it used two separate pumps and motors like most DWs do today. This DW did feel pretty thin and tinny but at least it was built of REAL SS unlike the later Waste-King DWs that were made of magnet muffler metal, LOL.
I have one of the 2nd generation TDs with one motor that has a pump on both ends if anyone wants to do a wright-up test report. Calling Nate.
This was the earlier version than the one shown in the brochure that was posted here, this DW had the same wash system but it used two separate pumps and motors like most DWs do today. This DW did feel pretty thin and tinny but at least it was built of REAL SS unlike the later Waste-King DWs that were made of magnet muffler metal, LOL.
I have one of the 2nd generation TDs with one motor that has a pump on both ends if anyone wants to do a wright-up test report. Calling Nate.
philr
Well-known member
The car in the SNL video is a late seventies Mercury Cougar 4 door. Similar to a Ford LTD II...
Unfortunately, I can't watch the video as the content is blocked outside the US (but there's a blurry still image of the car visible).
Unfortunately, I can't watch the video as the content is blocked outside the US (but there's a blurry still image of the car visible).
Thermador dishwasher
Hi John, how can you tell it's the earlier model?
Hi John, how can you tell it's the earlier model?
Real Thermador DW
Hi Alan, the TD DW in the ad with the St C cabinets has an earlier style control panel, we had several of that model years ago and they all had a completely seperate motor and pump for draining, they still had a Gorman-Rupp main pump [ in fact it was exactly the same as the motor and pump used in the early wash-arm WP DWs and the interior was the same. I do want to hook-up my TD DW one of these years it would be neat to see one run. One of the earlier style TD DWs we had years ago we used to put a gallon of Varsol in itand clean old washer transmission parts in it, it worked well for this until all the metal particles ruined the main pump seal. After this experience we used an old WH impeller DW where you don't have a main shaft seal to ruin.
Hi Alan, the TD DW in the ad with the St C cabinets has an earlier style control panel, we had several of that model years ago and they all had a completely seperate motor and pump for draining, they still had a Gorman-Rupp main pump [ in fact it was exactly the same as the motor and pump used in the early wash-arm WP DWs and the interior was the same. I do want to hook-up my TD DW one of these years it would be neat to see one run. One of the earlier style TD DWs we had years ago we used to put a gallon of Varsol in itand clean old washer transmission parts in it, it worked well for this until all the metal particles ruined the main pump seal. After this experience we used an old WH impeller DW where you don't have a main shaft seal to ruin.
firedome
Well-known member
"St. Charles Redux... not"
Humbly beg to differ... last August the NY reps for St Charles announced at a press conference in Manhattan that they were resurrecting the brand under the aegis of "St Charles of NY"... I was in the city at the time and happened to see it on TV. And mention of it was also made in retrorenovation.com, if memory serves (which it doesn't always at my age).
Humbly beg to differ... last August the NY reps for St Charles announced at a press conference in Manhattan that they were resurrecting the brand under the aegis of "St Charles of NY"... I was in the city at the time and happened to see it on TV. And mention of it was also made in retrorenovation.com, if memory serves (which it doesn't always at my age).
firedome
Well-known member
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Well,
I wish 'em lots of mazel, but if Viking, with its existing manufacturing capability and its non-union Mississippi labor force, could not price the product affordably *, I don't see how this group is going to be able to.
Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying that people who really, really knew what they were doing tried it and fell on their keesters. There will always be architecturally-educated customers who want what St. Charles have to offer, but will there be enough of them over time to sustain the brand? I'm not so sure.
* I mean "affordably" in terms of wealthy customers, of course. $2000 for one base cabinet is nosebleed territory even for the rich. And steel cabinets do not speak to the considerations of fashion and status that today's rich - many of whom have had their money since day before yesterday - demand be observed. Smallbone is much more up the alley of today's nouveaux riches.
I wish 'em lots of mazel, but if Viking, with its existing manufacturing capability and its non-union Mississippi labor force, could not price the product affordably *, I don't see how this group is going to be able to.
Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying that people who really, really knew what they were doing tried it and fell on their keesters. There will always be architecturally-educated customers who want what St. Charles have to offer, but will there be enough of them over time to sustain the brand? I'm not so sure.
* I mean "affordably" in terms of wealthy customers, of course. $2000 for one base cabinet is nosebleed territory even for the rich. And steel cabinets do not speak to the considerations of fashion and status that today's rich - many of whom have had their money since day before yesterday - demand be observed. Smallbone is much more up the alley of today's nouveaux riches.
firedome
Well-known member
Risky, perhaps, but...
they're in the right market no doubt. Hard to swing a dead cat around there without hitting a Morgan Stanley analyst or someone living off their private equity funds or inflated real estate; prices of co-ops on Columbia Heights are going for a tad more than when Lindsay couldn't keep the streets shoveled. Even Park Slope is becoming trendy spendy these days; Brooklyn is the new Manhattan, don't you know!...and it was becoming so even 6 years ago when Dear Daughter sold her place off of Atlantic Ave. en route to Denver. Sleek metal Euro-influenced kitchens are de rigeur with a certain set - so maybe the folks at St Charles of NY figure that they can cash in on metal mania... there's always a market for the best.
they're in the right market no doubt. Hard to swing a dead cat around there without hitting a Morgan Stanley analyst or someone living off their private equity funds or inflated real estate; prices of co-ops on Columbia Heights are going for a tad more than when Lindsay couldn't keep the streets shoveled. Even Park Slope is becoming trendy spendy these days; Brooklyn is the new Manhattan, don't you know!...and it was becoming so even 6 years ago when Dear Daughter sold her place off of Atlantic Ave. en route to Denver. Sleek metal Euro-influenced kitchens are de rigeur with a certain set - so maybe the folks at St Charles of NY figure that they can cash in on metal mania... there's always a market for the best.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Roger:
Here's my worry:
All the prospective customers you mention had four years of Viking's ownership to support the brand - which they didn't. And Viking offered things that this group may never be able to, such as the length of time in business that reassures a prospective high-dollar customer you're going to be around long enough to honor the warranty.
Again, if these entrepreneurs make this work, no one will be happier than me. But I just don't see how they're going to.
And all this having been said, I wish I were in a financial position to build a new kitchen right now, because I would be very happy to get some of these cabinets while the getting is good.
Here's my worry:
All the prospective customers you mention had four years of Viking's ownership to support the brand - which they didn't. And Viking offered things that this group may never be able to, such as the length of time in business that reassures a prospective high-dollar customer you're going to be around long enough to honor the warranty.
Again, if these entrepreneurs make this work, no one will be happier than me. But I just don't see how they're going to.
And all this having been said, I wish I were in a financial position to build a new kitchen right now, because I would be very happy to get some of these cabinets while the getting is good.
firedome
Well-known member
danemod Sandy...
everything you said is spot on, but the guess is that they must be hoping that by limiting marketing and distribution to a very narrow geo- & demo-graphic they can target buyers with means efficiently enough to thrive. No idea if manufacturing will remain where it was, and who knows whether they actually did a market study or are going seat-of-pants. Evidently Viking wasn't hugely losing shirt on StC but wanted to concentrate on core and most profitable product, a popular trend in business. One would hope that these NY guys are savvy enough to know what they're doing, not just throwing $$$ down a rat hole on a whim ... however it wouldn't be the first time. No doubt be v interesting to see what happens. Supposedly StCNY was long one of the most successful of their vendors, so maybe it makes sense. Super high-end products always seem to have their appeal, and there are always those with the means, particularly in NY: witness the success of audio "salons" such as Oswalds Mill Audio in Dumbo, with their $50K speakers, oswaldsmillaudio.com. Fortunately for us peons there are some terrific bargains to be had in used St. Charles, and there's much treatment of that subject on the eponymous retrorenovation.com
everything you said is spot on, but the guess is that they must be hoping that by limiting marketing and distribution to a very narrow geo- & demo-graphic they can target buyers with means efficiently enough to thrive. No idea if manufacturing will remain where it was, and who knows whether they actually did a market study or are going seat-of-pants. Evidently Viking wasn't hugely losing shirt on StC but wanted to concentrate on core and most profitable product, a popular trend in business. One would hope that these NY guys are savvy enough to know what they're doing, not just throwing $$$ down a rat hole on a whim ... however it wouldn't be the first time. No doubt be v interesting to see what happens. Supposedly StCNY was long one of the most successful of their vendors, so maybe it makes sense. Super high-end products always seem to have their appeal, and there are always those with the means, particularly in NY: witness the success of audio "salons" such as Oswalds Mill Audio in Dumbo, with their $50K speakers, oswaldsmillaudio.com. Fortunately for us peons there are some terrific bargains to be had in used St. Charles, and there's much treatment of that subject on the eponymous retrorenovation.com
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