Sterling Silver Flatware

[xraytech]

Matt,

Isn't it funny that I too long for a flatware set from Tiffany. That's when I'll know I made it.
I however would be happy with service for 12, maybe 16 plus several serving utensils, including several serving spoons.
My Tiffany pattern of choice would be "Audobon"

 

[xraytech]

I do have two sets of nice silver plate that I use fairly often, both are service for 16
The first is Rogers "First Love" pattern, it's my choice for a nicer dinner as the pattern matches my hand made glassware on "First Love"

My other set is also Rogers and is the "Gardenia" pattern. I favor this set for most company

 

[danemodsandy]

For Silverplate:

Here's a close photo of the pattern on Oneida/Betty Crocker's Queen Bess.

This was one of the Betty Crocker point giveaways - you saved points clipped from Bisquick, Gold Medal Flour, Cheerios, etc., and sent them in with a little money for S & H.

There are tons of this stuff out there, at very favorable prices; General Mills offered it for over thirty years. It's actually pretty decent plate, too - there's extra silver on wear points. It's a bit light, but for the price, you can't beat it.

 

[polkanut]

<span style="font-family: terminal, monaco; font-size: 12pt;">This is the everyday flatware pattern my parents have had since their marriage in 1967.  It is Oneidacraft "Textura".  It has been washed in a dishwasher since 1974.  It still looks nice.</span>

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/OHSTEX.htm

 

[tomturbomatic]

When I worked in housewares, we would sell these sets of stainless flatware from the other side of the world. We would get in a large shipment and then there would be a sale of the new sets, but there was no open stock and you don't want to get stuck with something which you cannot replace or add to. Some of those sets even had tiny seafood cocktail forks. People with dishwashers would sometimes complain about discoloration that looked like a rust stain showing up on the pieces when washed in the dishwasher. It was probably as much sitting dirty as washing in the dishwasher, but it was explained to us that lower grades of stainless steel do not have as much nickel and chrome in the steel alloy as the more expensive stuff and that is why you see the discoloration.

We sold the different levels of Oneida. Before the Hierloom level came out, Community was the top level. There was a nice loking 60ish modern pattern called Frostfire that was pulled for some reason and only available on special order from the company. A lot of people came in asking for it. Paul Revere was the best seller in that line. In the Deluxe Stainless, the most popular pattern was Chateau. I don't remember the last line. The Oneida was open stock. One of the best pieces in the Paul Revere, and I guess other Community patterns, is this big casserole spoon or buffet server. You can scoop up a lot of slop with that thing.

I had not thought about the possibility, but Sandy, is Oneida's stainless made overseas now?

 

[mikael3]

Wasn't the BOL line from Oneida called 'Profile'?  I seem to recall they had four lines, from top to bottom: Heirloom, Community, Deluxe, and Profile.  But that was in the '80s or even later.  I'm not sure how they marketed their stuff before that time.

 

[polkanut]

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 12pt;">Here's a link to a website I found this morning while looking for something else.  They also have a sister site that sells Corelle.</span>

http://www.silvertableware.com

 

[danemodsandy]

Oneida Today:

My understanding is that pretty much everything is made in China now. Oneida is only offering stainless flatware (flatware is called "cutlery" in the U.K.) these days; no silverplate or sterling.

It's a bit sad, because Oneida put "good silverware" into more American homes than anyone else; their silverplate offerings of the past were frequently seen at holiday and other special occasions. They also offered sterling for a time.

Nowadays, people will not take care of anything, and a surprising number of people do not have sufficient training in table manners to cope with any meal they don't have to unwrap, so good flatware is becoming a thing of the past.

So are many pieces that used to be considered indispensable. Today, a four- or five-piece place setting (knife, dinner fork, salad fork, tablespoon and one or perhaps two teaspoons) is the norm, plus a "hostess set" consisting of a solid serving spoon, a pierced serving spoon, a master butter knife and a sugar shell, are all that's available in many patterns, even those that formerly offered other items. If you like - like I like - to have iced tea spoons, individual butter knives, jelly servers or any other specialty pieces, you're grits out of luck.

One of the reasons for my interest in vintage flatware is that those pieces, and many more, are obtainable. Oneida's product offerings were so extensive at one time that some patterns like Coronation (called Hampton Court in the U.K.*) have the really hard-to-find stuff like fish forks and knives, pastry forks and the like available.

Oneida still offers specialty pieces in a few Community patterns. Paul Revere is one. That pattern was introduced in 1959, and has been one of Oneida's best sellers ever since. It's forged, very heavy and sturdy; it can take heavy everyday family use and still look good when company comes.

Did I mention I'm a flatware freak?

 

[mikael3]

I love fish forks and knives.

Since they don't come in any pattern I have, long ago I bought a set with bone handles to go with any of my existing flatware.  Older tables were often set with this sort of contrasting flatware for the fish course, and I think it makes a beautiful table.

 

[luxflairguy]

I use my grandmother's Oneida Community Patrician pattern silver plate every day. It was left to me in her will and in the 39 years I've kept house it's what's in the drawer. It never goes in the machine. I've always been proud to use it as my daily silver. I also have 2 other sets of plate, Oneida community Clairhill and my late partners grandmother's "entertainment" plate which is for 24! I also have my mother's Etruscian sterling for 18 and my own Fairfax sterling in the Euro size for 16.
I don't mind polishing any of it; in reality, it only takes about a 1/2 hour to scrub, rinse and polish it back to new. I do use a drawer lined with silver cloth and also use the Hagerty silver strips. The sad thing is that I have no younger family members to pass any of it on to and what will become of it all when I go is a mystery... Greg

 

[danemodsandy]

Greg:

You're very fortunate to have Patrician. It's a very old pattern (100 years old this year), and it's so elegantly simple that most people don't recognize it as anything special. Most people think that to be special, things must also be fancy! This has led to rather a lot of neglected and abused Patrician. I have found a lot of it that made me want to cry, it was so beat-up.

It was an anomaly in Oneida's lineup in the Teens and Twenties. Most of their patterns were geared toward the mass market that needed ornamentation to think something was beautiful. Bird of Paradise and Grosvenor were two examples of this kind of thinking. I actually like Grosvenor (pronounced GROVE-nurr), but as a period design, not fine design.

Anyway, here's Patrician for those who don't know it. This is a sugar spoon, hence the paneled bowl:

 

[launderess]

As things moved towards the "servant less" household

Along with more women working outside the home you began to see less and less sterling silver in favour of stainless. As automatic dishwashers became common in upper and better middle class homes that also hastened the ending of love affair with sterling.

Time was you saw sterling everywhere in homes. From the calling card tray in the front hall, tea/coffee sets, ash trays, candy dishes, ewers, dinnerware, serving ware and so forth. But as time wore on things and tastes changed.

Last great heyday in the USA for sterling probably was the post WWII era from the 1950's through some of the 1960's. In the film "Father of the Bride" Kay's family proudly displays her haul of wedding gifts including tons of silver. Indeed according to my 1950's copy of Vanderbilt's etiquette a bride to be of that period should try and get as much silver as possible as gifts before her marriage. Afterwards as other things come up such as the children or a new home the woman married to an up and coming executive could find herself short pieces and having to make due or borrow when entertaining important guests. Sitcoms/television shows of the 1950's through late as the 1970's were full of housewives always on the touch from her neighbor to borrow pieces of silver for an important event.

As the 1950's moved into the 1960's younger housewives had different ideas about entertaining, decorating and housekeeping and it certainly didn't involve spending hours polishing silver each week. Sadly there was the problem that the more one displayed or put out sterling silver it increased the chances of it being stolen.

Theft of silver was always a problem even for the upper classes. Great houses had safes where much of the stuff was locked away. If anything was missing servants were locked outside of the house and a search made of their rooms/the house. Some households would send their silver to be stored in bank vaults between uses, especially if the household was say going away for an extended period. In fact the original purpose of monogramming sterling was the same as for linens, the stuff was valuable and thus an "ID" mark made it easy to trace ownership.

Today of course you almost cannot give sterling silver away. Tea/coffee sets that have been in families for generations spark fights over not who wants the thing, but who gets "stuck" with it, and more often than not it is sold off to metal buyers.

One run up to Thanksgiving in the usual orgy of cleaning and preparations finally prevailed upon Mother *NOT* to haul the family silver out. Was a teenager by then and quite honestly was fed up to the back teeth with having to remain indoors for an afternoon polishing the stuff and or getting it ready for Turkey Day. It rarely was used and regardless one also was dragooned into washing, drying and seeing that the stuff was counted and put away properly afterwards. Thankfully the wooden spoon did not emerge and my plea was granted. Don't think the stuff has been touched since.

 

[danemodsandy]

1925 Oneida Ad:

This shows some of what has been mentioned here; it's a Christmas 1925 ad that originally ran in Good Housekeeping.

It shows Patrician, Grosvenor, Bird of Paradise, Adam and Hampton Court (American version, no relation to the later U.K. version of Coronation).

I wish we lived in a world that valued things like this today.

 

[danemodsandy]

Launderess:

The reason that the postwar era saw so much silver flatware was that manufacturers got very good deals on raw silver at that time, courtesy of Uncle Sam.

Silver has many, many military uses; enormous quantities were acquired and stockpiled by the government during World War II. When hostilities ceased, those stocks were released to the market, making it possible to offer silver flatware at very favorable prices.

 

[launderess]

Gay couple we knew were getting married and had a huge row over silver and fine china.

One half is very practical, masculine and to put it mildly without sounding insulting "butch". He wanted a very masculine wedding with minimal fuss and certainly none of the nonsense about registries and so forth. OTOH the other half is vary Martha Stewart and envisioned getting lots of sliver and filling out his collection of fine china.

Long story short the practical minded put the kibosh on such ideas because silver and fine china weren't "serviceable" to their lifestyle and saw no point in asking persons to spend all that money for things that rarely would be used (if ever). His other half countered that when not used the things could be displayed and so forth. That went over like a lead balloon since little or any sense was seen again in spending money on something that would end up gathering dust and worse require money (as in their cleaner) to maintain.

In the end there was no registry and guests/well wishers were invited to make donations to several charities of the groom and groom choosing in their names.

Had seen that same argument from straight couples so it is good to see equality runs all the way round. *LOL*

Think many brides and or those setting up household over think just how much and often they will use fine sterling silver and china. Suppose if you have nothing else to do and or like polishing and washing up before and after big events have at it. Am more and more a dishwasher sort of person. Like the ability to put stuff in the machine while preparing for a event such as cooking or baking, and cleaning up quickly say after a dinner to get to one's guests or bed. The idea of standing stuck in a kitchen washing up and putting away tons of Tchotchkes no longer moves me.

Think also going to estate sales, thrifts and eBay has changed one's views over the years. At first when one spies all sorts of vast amounts of NOS or barely used vintage silver, silver ware sets, service pieces, china, fine silver plate or sterling, vintage linens, and so forth one thinks what a great haul. However as the years go by you begin to realize why all that stuff sat basically either unpacked and new or rarely bothered with. Then you start to think about what people could have been done with that money. Or worse, you begin to think what you could have done with all that money. *LOL*

The Boomers probably will be he last great generations interested in acclimating all the trappings of "old world" finery. Large antique furniture, sterling silver, etc... Young kids today just aren't interested which means the market for resale is drying up.

Was watching a program last night on the famous American architect and painter of the Gilded Age Sanford White. Seeing pictures or walking tours of period homes crammed full of stuff just makes one feel claustrophobic. Then you think of the army of servants and or hours that went into maintaining all that silver and china and you begin to see why that sort of excess faded.

In the real world am betting "Sheridan" would sell off Hyacinth Bucket's Royal Doulton and silver before she was cold in her grave. Take the proceeds and put it towards a fab flat in London for himself and his husband Tarquin. *LOL*

 

[perc-o-prince]

Chach,

Every day you wake up IS a special occasion. Use your sterling, but treat it with respect! DO keep it separate from stainless if you put it in the dishwasher. Don't put the knives in the dishwasher- wash them by hand so you don't risk loosening the pitch that holds the blades in the handles. Use a knife with the fork to cut your meat, no matter how tender it is. Et cetera, et cetera.

Launderess- I don't know what you mean by... "Today of course you almost cannot give sterling silver away. Tea/coffee sets that have been in families for generations spark fights over not who wants the thing, but who gets "stuck" with it, and more often than not it is sold off to metal buyers." From a monetary standpoint, those who get "stuck" are the winners if they take it to the scrapper. I'm not saying I agree with melting a lot of the finely crafted pieces out there, but people who think they're stuck with silver are morons in this day and age.

And, I stand by our Reed & Barton stainless everyday set, even if it is from Japan. It may not be 100% the quality of old US stainless, but we've had no problems with it with YEARS of use. I'm far from an aficionado, or "freak" when it comes to flatware, but I know what I see in my kitchen.

We also have a lot of an older "starred" stainless pattern (I can't remember the name but I believe it's a Citation pattern) that we use for gatherings since we have so many pieces. I wouldn't use it every day since the handles are small for me, but..........

Chuck

 

[launderess]

Stuck

In that yes, they can sell it on even if for scrap, but then you know how that will end up. The very same family members that didn't want the stuff will hound you into your grave for selling/destroying Maydear's fine silver. That or worse will demand their "cut" because "she was my mother too you know....". Finally there are those that cannot bring themselves to get rid of something that valuable which belong to their mother or family member. So in essence "stuck" is what they are, even if that isn't the proper word.

Have heard of families where one person wants the stuff but lives in too cramped quarters. So they want another to take it and "hold onto it" until they either move house and or have need. In essence making a family member's home a storage facility.

Indeed each day one rises and does not hit one's head on a wooden lid, smell freshly dug earth and or are looking down upon who one once was is a great day. However have better ways of celebrating such joy than polishing silver and or adding more work to my housekeeping routine. As it is am getting that fed up with manually washing dishes due to yet not having replaced the broken DW.

 

[luxflairguy]

Sandy,
I'm also lucky to have a Patrician water pitcher that I found in an antique shop years ago for $20.00 Wonder what it would be worth today.
My late partner came to our marriage with Paul Revere, just as my mother used for years, but he was quickly won over by the simple elegance and comments we got on the Patrician. It was his job to set the table every night for dinner. He'd always ask what pieces were needed for the meal.

 

[launderess]

Patrician Silverplate

Quick scan of sold listings on fleaPay shows things going for not very dear prices. Highest prices one saw were for complete or nearly so sets in boxes with $145 for a 1975 set and about $125 for another older (1930's)

 

[twintubdexter]

How interesting that members would know so much about eating utensils, always refered to as flatware in the department store I worked for. Tucked away in my breakfront in a special compartment that has a tarnish-proof cover is a nice set of closeout silver plate. I think I used it once. The last time I looked it was jet black. So much for the cover. Fortunately for my pocketbook my uneducated tastebuds can't tell the difference between sterling, stainless or plastic.