Stoves without thermostats

[Chetlaham]

To add, in a 400, 600 1000 watt scenario I could see why 6 positions would suffice as 400 + 600 = 1000 /// so it would be redundant.

This of course if for the stove top burners.

Hard part for me will be calculating the heat loss (for the oven) such that X watts will maintain 375-400 degrees steady state.

If I apply the same concept, I could achieve 350, 400 and 450 degrees.

.............

Cookies in my experience cook better at 375 then 350

I'd argue when temperatures are steady the actual temperature is of less importance.

My Breville smart oven has taught me that.

Lets not kid ourselves a typical oven, even a GE "true temp" fluctuates some 50* if not more.

On/Off is crude even when done with relays...

 

[Chetlaham]

Just some links of multi element cooktop burners.

https://otorva.org/wiring-diagram-f...toves-macspares-wholesale-spare-parts-within/

https://otorva.org/wiring-diagram-f...iring-diagram-for-defy-gemini-oven-gemin-hob/

https://otorva.org/wiring-diagram-f...ram-for-defy-gemini-oven-series-6-7-no-clock/

https://otorva.org/wiring-diagram-f...ing-diagram-for-defy-gemini-oven-cordon-bleu/

 

[Chetlaham]

And my bad- 350+650 is also equal to 1000 lol.

Still confused why no 1000 watt setting.

Anyway, a modern US burner with two elements. Two elements are common in flatops for giving you a cookware size options, but what is odd here is that these two elements appear to both scale the full unit.



This is typical, where on element runs the center another the perimeter:



Another example of a dual wattage burner:

 

[combo52]

I have never seen a household oven that varies 50 F as it cycles on and off unless it had a bad thermostat etc.

 

It is Impossible to build a decent oven that does not have a thermostat, in order for it to work properly it needs to reach temperature quickly, work in different temperature rooms from 50F-120 F and recover quickly from unpredictable oven door openings and vastly different temperatures of food being added from frozen [ 0 F ] to boiling or more, if you are out to reinvent the wheel an oven without a thermostat is not going to be the invention that wins you any recognition, LOL.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

But it can win you $$$$$. Everything around you exists because people were capable of thinking outside the box, adding to what existed prior. We may not know the names of the engineers at Whirlpool or their patents but they sure are enjoying handsome pay. So yes, it won't win anyone recognition even if successful to the point of mass production.

In your experience, by how much do ovens vary as they cycle?

 

[combo52]

Cycling Range Of An Oven Thermostat

Probably between 5 and 20 degrees F.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

I can believe that. But also keep in mind you have hot and cold spots along with uneven temperature distribution. Breville went to great lengths to eliminate that too and the difference is night and day.

An oven with more even, steady temps can make up for overall high or low temps.

 

[Chetlaham]

And oh, John, before I forget- why the double elements? What was Whirlpools reasoning behind this?

 

[lowefficiency]

>> why the double elements? What was Whirlpools reasoning behind this?

That's probably one of the "rapid boil" or "turbo boil" elements.
They let you put a LOT of heat, or a smaller amount of heat, into the same size cookware... with much more stable temperature regulation when using lower heat settings.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The engineers working for a corporation do not get paid for their patents; the corporation claims the patents in the name of the corporation.  Your thinking is not outside of the box.

 

[Chetlaham]

Yes- but my point was having your name on a patent is an accomplishment even though most people could not put an individual name to a patent.

Considering how much stoves vary in temperature and how uneven they are, it is indeed out of the box thinking how to correct it.

Breville smart ovens cook better then most 2,000 dollar ranges.

 

[Chetlaham]

Rapid boil

Does anyone have a link or service manual bulletin that describes it?

 

[combo52]

Reply #66

Note the thermostat built into the element to protect against overheating the glass Cook-Top, the reason for the dual elements is described in the service information for this range.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

Thanks- which sheet / page?

Looks like Low Efficiency is correct- it is a rapid boil feature.

 

[Chetlaham]

And oh- won't the 1,100 watt element over heat the cooktop because its not run through the thermostat?

 

[henene4]

Why not an variable voltage solution? Or high power PWM solution?

Most safety systems could be run on timed modes as well, and no relays to fuse shut.

Would still include a one shot thermostat for fires though.

The shorter the operating times will be the more exact it will, the longer the more you draft off.

 

[Chetlaham]

Simpler- but come mass production those things would probably have to be taken seriously.

 

[earthling177]

I find it weirdly ironic that you keep mentioning the Breville smart ovens.

Yes, they *do* work very well, that's true.

And they do have multiple elements.

But they are very possibly the or one of the most over controlled ovens -- the microprocessor even sports anywhere from 6 to 13 (possibly more by now) different programs to deal with cookies, pizza, regular baking, roasting, toasting, some have slow cooking, or air frying features etc.

The entire thing is basically a demonstration of what a few highly sensitive low inertia sensors plus a microprocessor can do with 5 to 6 elements.

It's possibly the furthest thing one could have from a handful of elements coupled to a switch that puts the elements in series or parallel to achieve different power levels, each element on the Breville is connected to circuits that vary the power very closely according to the program and temperature sensors, and, if you look at the elements during a cycle, even for toast, for example, you'll see them cycling from off to several different power levels to achieve multiple different functions, like raise the temperature of the toast, dry it, then they turn on the central broil element to toast the surface etc.

 

[Chetlaham]

100% true- however- the temperature is inside is steady and very even.

My theory is that if you do not open the door to a none thermostat oven, the temps inside will remain rather stable and not bob up and down.

 

[combo52]

reply # 78

No it does not work that way, if you do not open the door it will keep getting hotter

You have no concept of how things work, I can see why you are hiding from the world, LOL