250$ in when?
I doubt GE made anything in the past 20 years up to 35 years lifetime.
I doubt GE made anything in the past 20 years up to 35 years lifetime.
Talk about junk!
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vacerator
Well-known member
Then all the sales people are lying to me.
They all tell me they are all direct drive now.
Are we talking the B.O.L. washers only? 3.2 cubic ft. capacity, with full agitator?
They all tell me they are all direct drive now.
Are we talking the B.O.L. washers only? 3.2 cubic ft. capacity, with full agitator?
Surely you're aware that properly informed salespeeps are rare. Simple matter to look up parts diagrams for a given model.
potatochips
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Henerik, I think what Chetlaham is talking about is BOL GEs from the filterflo era, which I would believe can and do last near four decades, and with the ways of inflation I would suspect they were talking about machines from the late 70s.
I have an Eatons and Sears catalogue from 1976 and I compared the prices of a few MOL machines to the price of the machine above, and the inflated difference isnt that far off. I do believe shrinkflation, as Douglas mentioned, is a real thing that happens in todays society.
Based on these catalogue finds, it turns out a MOL Kenmore machine with similar features is about $50 off from the machine above which really is a marginal difference, so in fact yes, the purchasing power today as opposed to ten years ago, to twenty years ago, and to about thirty years ago is the same however the product quality is not.
I have an Eatons and Sears catalogue from 1976 and I compared the prices of a few MOL machines to the price of the machine above, and the inflated difference isnt that far off. I do believe shrinkflation, as Douglas mentioned, is a real thing that happens in todays society.
Based on these catalogue finds, it turns out a MOL Kenmore machine with similar features is about $50 off from the machine above which really is a marginal difference, so in fact yes, the purchasing power today as opposed to ten years ago, to twenty years ago, and to about thirty years ago is the same however the product quality is not.
good-shepherd
Well-known member
But you aren't paying the same
I meant the same in 2018 inflation ravaged dollars.
"Shrink-Flation" is an attempt to mask dollar depreciation.
People point fingers at Business and Capitalism when it's primarily a government caused currency issue.
I meant the same in 2018 inflation ravaged dollars.
"Shrink-Flation" is an attempt to mask dollar depreciation.
People point fingers at Business and Capitalism when it's primarily a government caused currency issue.
I understand about what people are saying about profit and cost and price with inflation compared to back then. But the fact is a $500.00 dryer should have a lifespan of 5 years the way stuff is made today before it needs repair or replacement. Four dryers in 2 months is about as unacceptable as junk gets. Considering the first one she bought was a cheaper model and they upgraded her. Doesnt say a whole lot about WP these days. Has a Made in America sticker in front but I think assembled here may be more accurate because most of it is prob imported.
It's all fine and dandy if you want it to last 5 years. (I certainly want it to too)
But those cheapo dryers only come with a 1 year warranty.
That means WP, GE, FR, Elux, LG etc etc etc. are TELLING YOU they only trust that it'll last, defect free for 1 year.
That's what they build to.
That's what the market landscape is supporting. That's what consumers are buying, no matter how mad they get. They're not doing anything about it.
In other threads, my high end GE dishwasher was starting to deteriorate after 2.5 years. I was mad.
So I went and sought out a KA dishwasher with....yes the same 1yr piddly warranty, but it also has a FIVE year warranty on the racks and electronics, thankfully.
That's super rare! And I paid for it. So KA trusts those components to last 5yrs or they will fix them for me.
Your cheapo dryer is covered for 1 year, so they will fix or replace anything that breaks in that time. ON WP's expense. If they deem that they are paying too much in warranty repairs on certain models, they will revise designs and part sources. Not a second till then.
As an engineer, I would LOVE to use the best parts.
Mgmt won't let me. Sourcing has a budget, and the best I can do, short of walking out the door, is determine if the part can do the job for a reasonable amount of time for the cost they're allotting me.
Sometimes it's not up to my standards. But that's what mgmt chooses. As long as it's not dangerous, I can't really make a stink about them foisting a cheaper component on me unless, again, I leave.
And go where? Somewhere else that does the same thing?
But those cheapo dryers only come with a 1 year warranty.
That means WP, GE, FR, Elux, LG etc etc etc. are TELLING YOU they only trust that it'll last, defect free for 1 year.
That's what they build to.
That's what the market landscape is supporting. That's what consumers are buying, no matter how mad they get. They're not doing anything about it.
In other threads, my high end GE dishwasher was starting to deteriorate after 2.5 years. I was mad.
So I went and sought out a KA dishwasher with....yes the same 1yr piddly warranty, but it also has a FIVE year warranty on the racks and electronics, thankfully.
That's super rare! And I paid for it. So KA trusts those components to last 5yrs or they will fix them for me.
Your cheapo dryer is covered for 1 year, so they will fix or replace anything that breaks in that time. ON WP's expense. If they deem that they are paying too much in warranty repairs on certain models, they will revise designs and part sources. Not a second till then.
As an engineer, I would LOVE to use the best parts.
Mgmt won't let me. Sourcing has a budget, and the best I can do, short of walking out the door, is determine if the part can do the job for a reasonable amount of time for the cost they're allotting me.
Sometimes it's not up to my standards. But that's what mgmt chooses. As long as it's not dangerous, I can't really make a stink about them foisting a cheaper component on me unless, again, I leave.
And go where? Somewhere else that does the same thing?
potatochips
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I would argue a warranty doesnt indicate the manufacturers level of trust. Take a look at car warranties for example. Rather, a guarantee is what indicates trust level.
Long lasting GEs
Mid 70s to the early 90s. About every appliance type by GE had its day. They were dirt cheap, put in condos and apartments subjected to enormous abuse, with many still going strong. In fact the only reason some are being replaced is because they are dated. Or all around tired.
Of course after the early 90s, and even as far as the very late 80s, the decline started. Most GE appliances from the late 90s are designed to fail. Today, forget about it. However it shows that you can get something from nothing.
Mid 70s to the early 90s. About every appliance type by GE had its day. They were dirt cheap, put in condos and apartments subjected to enormous abuse, with many still going strong. In fact the only reason some are being replaced is because they are dated. Or all around tired.
Of course after the early 90s, and even as far as the very late 80s, the decline started. Most GE appliances from the late 90s are designed to fail. Today, forget about it. However it shows that you can get something from nothing.
What you're missing is "way back in the good ole days" materials costs were far lower.
Materials costs are a significant portion of the manufacturing cost these days. Labor is up too.
Yet, retail prices are down or the same compared to decades ago.
Materials costs are a significant portion of the manufacturing cost these days. Labor is up too.
Yet, retail prices are down or the same compared to decades ago.
Again- not buying it. Whirlpool and Hobart Kitchen-aid dishwashers used far more raw materials yet didn't last as long.
Just maybe its not so much cost, but rather intentionally designing appliances in order to fail.
Just maybe its not so much cost, but rather intentionally designing appliances in order to fail.
Nothing
"Is as good as it once was! Everything is built to fail"
And then we are told by manufacturers, consumer and government agencies that modern appliances are designed to be better for the environment and easier on resources. That this junk regularly ends up in landfill (not recycling), in less than 6 or so years, is of no interest and never gets mentioned in any of these conversations.
If these products didn't require a lot of resources for their manufacture and were they fully biodegradable, I wouldn't feel so critical of modern ideas about what constitutes good appliances vs what came before.
"Is as good as it once was! Everything is built to fail"
And then we are told by manufacturers, consumer and government agencies that modern appliances are designed to be better for the environment and easier on resources. That this junk regularly ends up in landfill (not recycling), in less than 6 or so years, is of no interest and never gets mentioned in any of these conversations.
If these products didn't require a lot of resources for their manufacture and were they fully biodegradable, I wouldn't feel so critical of modern ideas about what constitutes good appliances vs what came before.
norgeway
Well-known member
Re Whirlpool and K
Who said WP and Kitchen Aids didn't last as long, Hobart Kitchen Aids are THE MOST DURABLE DISHWASHERS EVER MADE!! not opinion, FACT! I cant say about Whirlpools, but I know of Kitchen Aids 50 and 60 years old still in daily use, NO COMPARISON, the longest lasting DW ever!
Who said WP and Kitchen Aids didn't last as long, Hobart Kitchen Aids are THE MOST DURABLE DISHWASHERS EVER MADE!! not opinion, FACT! I cant say about Whirlpools, but I know of Kitchen Aids 50 and 60 years old still in daily use, NO COMPARISON, the longest lasting DW ever!
Most durable, but not the most long lasting. Sure there are Hobarts still running today as are 80s Potscrubbers, but that doesn't take into account the over all picture.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
"And then we are told by manufacturers, consumer and government agencies that modern appliances are designed to be better for the environment and easier on resources. That this junk regularly ends up in landfill (not recycling), in less than 6 or so years, is of no interest and never gets mentioned in any of these conversations."
Absolutely true.
If Governments were truly environmentally conscious, they would stipulate that machines must be fully dismantleable right down to the bare nuts and bolts.
Instead we have sealed everything up, individual parts are not available.
I'm sure somebody told me fairly recently (probably a mechanic), that there isn't even an oil dipstick on some of the modern cars!
Absolutely true.
If Governments were truly environmentally conscious, they would stipulate that machines must be fully dismantleable right down to the bare nuts and bolts.
Instead we have sealed everything up, individual parts are not available.
I'm sure somebody told me fairly recently (probably a mechanic), that there isn't even an oil dipstick on some of the modern cars!
wft2800
Well-known member
Yeah, the idea with modern cars is that a sensor replaces the dipstick and is supposedly more accurate... not sure I buy it. There are better reasons to avoid modern cars, though, like cheapened suspension components and electrically-assisted power steering...
vacerator
Well-known member
reasons for modern cars
modern features are part of cafe standard qualification. Not all the gps and user interface garb, but electric steering, stop/start at light feature, etc.
While a bit of a nuisance, and hardly affect any single vehicle, the incremental corporate fuel savings helps them meet the standard set by govt. mandates.
The electric steering motor and gear weight less than a pump, plus a hydraulic rack. I've noticed a reversion to the feel of the 70's single finger steering ease.
Yes on the freeway it's way too light if it doesn't have the up level package with adaptive control.
As for oil changes, the new aluminum alloy high feature tech. engines use at least a synthetic blend. It costs more, and seeing as we lease, I'm only doing it when the cars computer tells me to. Likely once per year. These synthetics last longer, stay cleaner, and keep the engine cooler, even though they may run a bit hotter. The heat is in the oil, not wearing out the cylinder linings, which may be actually an applied ceramic/metallic coating, not actual sleeves.
modern features are part of cafe standard qualification. Not all the gps and user interface garb, but electric steering, stop/start at light feature, etc.
While a bit of a nuisance, and hardly affect any single vehicle, the incremental corporate fuel savings helps them meet the standard set by govt. mandates.
The electric steering motor and gear weight less than a pump, plus a hydraulic rack. I've noticed a reversion to the feel of the 70's single finger steering ease.
Yes on the freeway it's way too light if it doesn't have the up level package with adaptive control.
As for oil changes, the new aluminum alloy high feature tech. engines use at least a synthetic blend. It costs more, and seeing as we lease, I'm only doing it when the cars computer tells me to. Likely once per year. These synthetics last longer, stay cleaner, and keep the engine cooler, even though they may run a bit hotter. The heat is in the oil, not wearing out the cylinder linings, which may be actually an applied ceramic/metallic coating, not actual sleeves.
norgeway
Well-known member
No such thing
As steering that is too light, Chrysler Co Axial Full Time Power steering was the very best , NO feel of the road, which suited me just fine because I have never understood WHY anyone wanted to feel the road, With the Chrysler system one finger will control the car, the wheel never fights or jerks if you have a blowout , or hit a pothole, you never lose control, and you can drive all day with no fatigue..I LOVE it, nothing has ever driven like a old Chrysler product.
As steering that is too light, Chrysler Co Axial Full Time Power steering was the very best , NO feel of the road, which suited me just fine because I have never understood WHY anyone wanted to feel the road, With the Chrysler system one finger will control the car, the wheel never fights or jerks if you have a blowout , or hit a pothole, you never lose control, and you can drive all day with no fatigue..I LOVE it, nothing has ever driven like a old Chrysler product.
speedqueen
Well-known member
I agree Hans, I hate the under-powered power steering systems employed today, while not a Chrysler, the powered steering in my '75 Cadillac is no slouch. No pot hole--I mean road feel either!
wft2800
Well-known member
Whereas my sensibilities are very European: I want real heft and feel to the helm, because otherwise it's impossible to place the car accurately on the road. My old E39 BMWs are great in this respect - not Porsche 911 constant-patter-of-info feelsome, but pretty close. They're light enough (not finger-twirly!) at low speeds, so parking and city driving is fine (though my 540i Touring did 17mpg at 17mph average with my Miele in the back!), but it's rock-steady at speed, and blatting down a representative British B-road, there's a real sense of connection with those front tyres - which does not compromise the ride quality, as the Germans back then could actually make a car both ride and handle...
