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Ronhic . . .

OK, so make me jealous once again by reminding me about your five speed DS23! We never got the five speed in the D, the 2.3 engine or the injection here in the US :(

 

I assume your car has the big crossflow radiator with the auxiliary electric fan mounted right behind the engine driven fan? What type of a/c condenser do you have, regular radiator mount or fender vent?
 
Sorry, not my intention. If you ever head to the land of Oz, you know you'll be expected to take June for a good drive :)

Yes and yes. Mine doesn't have air-conditioning - probably a good thing knowing that they run even hotter!

They were poisonously expensive cars here in the mid 1970's, attracting 57.5% import duty alone. The air-conditioning (and radio) was an option on top of the already AUD$10,000 list price.

For context, that was USD$13,500 before sales tax!
 
Hehe, you know I love hearing about your DS, it is the ultimate, most powerful and fastest D ever, not cheap in any market and thus rare even in Europe. I am surprised that anyone forking out that much for a car didn't want the a/c in a hot climate; perhaps they lived on the coast and never went inland.

 

Many years ago a friend of mine had a nice '71 DS21 daily driver. It was an early '71 and didn't get the fender vent a/c though he said the original front bumper did have the vents, presumably Coolaire hadn't gotten the condensers into production when the car arrived in Texas. The owner was an engineer and long-time DS guy, but did not like being hot. He kept the radiator mounted condenser but added a second electric fan in front of it, used in conjunction with the factory electric and mechanical fans behind the radiator. Since pancake fan motors were rare then he used a normal 12v motor and had to modify the shroud and relocate the spare tire to the rear. A bit Rube Goldberg, but it worked and kept him cool in Dallas traffic for many, many years.

 

I've always wondered if both the D and SM would benefit from some small vents in the front fenders to let air out. The SM does not appear to have any more air exits than the D, but the twin fans move a lot of air, particularly the '73 fans with the big motors. I'm not sure if those were installed across the board for '73 or only on three liter cars. One funny factoid about the SM is that there is a hydraulically operated switch to turn off the fans once you hit 30 mph or so when there is enough airflow to make them redundant. It is operated by a high pressure line from the steering speed governor on the nose of the gearbox.

 

At least with no a/c you don't have to worry about premature timing chain wear from the compressor. Modern Sankyo-Sanden types aren't too bad, but the York type universally fitted in the US or OEM Italian York clone on the SM have high cyclical loads that the timing chains don't like. The D is significantly less sensitive to this than the SM however.
 
June was originally a Sydney car. Summer time temperatures of around 35c during the day are pretty much the norm, but Sydney traffic in the 1970's and early 1980's wasn't as stupid as it is now - it moved. It's changed dramatically in the last 15 or so years since I lived there and wouldn't consider using June in Sydney as a daily driver these days.

There are some DS here with mudguard vents to help direct hot air out from under the bonnet. Some are mount on top and others are mounted aft of the front wheels. I'm not sure how effective they are, but given that I know of one club member who has even resorted to cutting the rubber seal at the base of the windscreen to help airflow, they would have to do something!

One thing is certain, you do need to have a radiator in top condition or she'll overheat faster than you can imagine....sustained high speed (135-145kph) running on a 30c day also leads to increased temperatures that only airflow can mitigate.

A friend of ours has an SM that he recently bought as a companion for his DS23 Safari. She does get warm, but no more so than my injected DS23.

Ah, the problems we have with aged cars....

 
Ah, the problems we have with aged cars....

<a name="start_48296.700287">Indeed! At least the D and SM aren't hopeless, something I can't say for my sister's old 4.2 Series I E-Type. I left the Lucas fan behind the radiator and installed a front fan from a 3.8 Buick Regal with a/c (none on the Jag) and figured it would stay cool but run the battery down. I was so wrong: the Lucas alternator (first year for that - '65) took it all in stride but it still overheated in traffic so badly that the hot air coming out the hood louvers would warp your vision at stoplights! She gave up trying to use the Jag in anything but cool weather and got a '66 Corvette. It was unrestored, but even at thirty years of age it never overheated and always, always got you where you wanted to go so long as you satisfied its 11 mpg thirst. Needless to say, it is no longer in regular use with today's gas prices!</a>

 

<a name="start_48296.700287">BTW, those fender vents were OEM on '61 and '62 DS19s. I had one as akid, though not a runner. They disappeared in '63 when Citroen cleaned up the aero with the 2nd generation nose.  </a>
 
Guard vents

Were often retro-fitted here long after the early 1960's. I think you could get them installed on Heidelberg made cars right up until production ceased in 1966. Additionally, some dealers here fitted them in the 1970's, though they do tend to detract from the lines of the car and I wouldn't be surprised if they encourage even more rust into the car!
 
500 . . .

Like Ford, Fiat has used the "500" name for lots of cars and it gets confusing! The 500 "Topolino" is indeed a front engine, rear drive car with an inline four cylinder engine. Topolino means "little mouse" in Italian, and the car is just that: a small and economical city car. It was built from '37 to '55. In '55 the all new 600 nominally replaced it, but in '57 they introduced the Nuova 500 that was closer to the original 500 in spirit in that it was a truly minimal car. Both the 600 and Nuova 500 are rear engined, but the Nuova 500 has a tiny air-cooled inline twin rather than the 600's water cooled four. The Nuova 500 was produced through '75, but was replaced by the 126 in '72. That car, produced through 2000, also has an air cooled inline twin.

 

The 500 Topolino, 600/850 and Nuova 500/126 families are completely different designs with little commonality aside from the manufacturer. All were also well accepted and much loved; Fiat's skill and expertise at small car design goes back a long way.
 
I am a bit surprised...

I would have not expected that these old Fiat cars were so well known in USA, where they have never been sold, as far as I know (by the way: my mother had a Topolino, the "C" version to be precise: how on earth do you know that old car, sudmaster?).

Is it because your personal interest in old cars or there is any other reason?[this post was last edited: 9/1/2013-03:26]
 
The last of the Fiat 126p, the 'Bis' was actually a water cooled 704cc 2 cyl with the engine laying on its side under the boot floor and the car finally getting the hatch it deserved.
 
Oops, forgot about the water cooled twin in the Polish built Bis, thanks for the reminder! The 126 was never sold in the US although there was one around here some years ago with the air-cooled engine. Of all the rear engined Fiats, the only ones that were sold here in any number were the 850 Coupe and Spider, and the X1/9.

 

There was an American version of the Nuova 500 with larger headlights that made it look rather bug-eyed, but to my knowledge it was pretty much a special order thing; back then many Americans didn't get four cylinder cars, let alone two cylinder ones! Citroen found that out when they briefly tried to sell the Ami 6 here. The 600 was a regular item in the late '50s/early '60s but it wasn't a big seller, nor was the 850 sedan that replaced it. By the late '60s Fiat sales here pretty much centered around sports cars and the front engined sedans. In '83 they left the country until the recent return with the new 500, with the only exceptions being a small number of 124 Spiders and X1/9s sold under the Pininfarina and Bertone names for a few years after the '83 pullout.
 
Don,

Well, I know of the Topolino from books and internet photos, and also from a History Channel series on classic cars that highlighted the Fiat line. I don't think I've ever seen one in person, though. Not even sure I've seen the later rear engine "Bambino" in person, either.
 
Topolino

Gee, just from the sound of it I would have thought that particular model would have been Fiat's TOL. 
smiley-sealed.gif
 
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