The cost of food

[sudsmaster]

Since we've veered off to politics and national economy...

Read an article in SF Chronicle, about how the supposed "fix" for the subprime mortgage mess is really just another bail-out for fraudulent mortgage lenders. The idea is that the investors - many of them foreign - in our nice little subprime mortgage mess have a right to demand full, immediate payment on the loans, because they can probably prove the investments they were sold in the subprime business were bascially fraudulent. Apparently the "fix" means that these investors cannot demand that immediate payment, but will have to wait five years. However, if the investors are able to make these demands, it could sink even our largest banks. To top it off, the fix only postpones the disaster - there's every indication that home prices will continue to drop over the next few years, making the frozen mortgage loans just as upside down then as they are today, in that they are for more than the homes are worth on the open market. And when the freeze comes off, foreclosures will continue to mount, and the misery will be compounded by our major banks going under with the legal demands for immediate payment by investors.

Something to ponder.

I'm starting to think that gold, at $800/oz, may actually be a good investment.

 

[pturo]

Food IS getting really expensive.

I have cut down or out of all "luxury foods", IE sirloin, imported cheeses and deli meats,expensive seafood.

The cheaper meats are good for stew and things pot related, and you can live off a pot of chili for a week. It's winter here and those kinds of foods are wonderfully warming, cheaper and even better as leftovers than the first day, plus you can heat them in the micowave at work in your little glad micro dishes with lids to save on lunch money.

For Basics, I shop primarily at Aldi's, instead of Wegman's (which is the Bloomingdales of supermarkets in our area)By the way, try Aldi's coffee, it is amazingly good at$ 2.99 a pound, has that Starbucks finish to it, my favorite is Arabica.

Pasta is cheap, and good for you. If you make a big pot of sauce, you can make many entrees with that sauce besides basic spaghetti. Ground beef makes good meatballs.

One thing that has not gone up too much here is good wine, which makes cutting back in other things more palateable at meal time.

 

[sudsmaster]

Beef has indeed gone up in price quite a bit. But I still manage to treat myself to a rib steak now and then. It helps to buy in quantity at places like Costco and freeze the surplus for later use. I also find that the quality of Costco's meat is quite a bit better for equal or lower price than what the supermarkets now try to pass off as substitutes for "Choice" grade (Safeway's gristly "Select" brand comes to mind).

Also, if you like to do stir fry, to be authentic, there isn't much meat in it - it's mostly veggies. A Chinese friend once told me that in traditional Chinese cuisine, the meat is there mostly for flavor. For this, a tri tip strip of sirloin goes a long way. As does a chicken breast. Chicken is generally much cheaper if you buy the whole bird. It's not all that difficult to fillet a chicken (Joyce Chen calls it "boning a chicken", LOL). I can do it in short order with a big Chinese style cleaver. You wind up with tender breast meat for the stir-fry, various appendages for baking/frying/boiling, and the carcass for superior soup stock. I can get whole chicken for $.89/lb, sometimes less when Costco runs one of their specials.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

"Would you like Special Sauce with your chopped cardboard and cement dust?"

As the beef processors (don't even call them farmers!) ask their cattle that are also seasoned with pesticides, herbicides, antibiotics and other drugs including sulfamethazine, steriods, disinfectants, chlorine bleach, sewage-sludge pellets decontaminated with caesium-137, radioactive nuclear waste, fattening agents, sodium sulphite, nitrates, nitrites, industrial oils and wastes, feces and uring mixed in with recycled feed, drainage from untreated abcesses, decaying insects and insect feces, worms and worm segments. YUMMY!! Make mine a double!!

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4126703.html

 

[xyz]

I have never been very extravagant at the dinner table, although I was raised rather extravagantly by an accomplished chef in m y family doing the cooking. I just never got into spending a whole lot of money on food. I think that came about by being so poor after leaving home and having to eat frugally in order to stay out of the family nest. But the costs of groceries is pretty bad. The really *^%#'d up thing about prices is this if and when the costs of fuel consumed to deliver, handle, and process foods ever returns to normal, (what is normal anyways?); will the prices of food items return to normal? I doubt it. I do know that the prices of milk and other dairy products is regulated by the US government so they have to ease back into their normal ranges by law but Kraft Foods has no such regulation, just greed.

 

[washernut]

Canning?

I have a couple very good friends that can alot. One of them will can all his own home made soups, stews and sauces. He just makes a stock pot full and takes out what he wants for the meal then cans the rest. Usually 7 quarts because that's one batch in the normal canner. I've had his soups and chili that's been canned and it's wonderful. Not to mention the convenience factor. My other friend will wait until she finds chicken or other meats on sale and can them. She will find chicken leg quarters for .29 per pound and buy 20 or 30 pounds at a time. I've also had this and it's great. I have canned tomatoes and chili sauce but, have not gotten this far into it. But, since I have alot more time than money I'm going to start. I remember helping my mom can when i was a little kid. It's very rewarding to see all those jars lined up on the counter and wait for the "popping" to begin....
Bill

 

[sudsmaster]

While I was "between jobs" a few years ago, I harvested grapes, peaches, and limes and such from the garden and canned preserves and conserves. I was a bit surprised at how much WORK it was, but the results were fun enough.

For other garden produce, like tomatoes/squash/green beans, I like to blanch and then vacuum freeze any surpluses. It's a lot faster than canning and the quality is better for stuff normally eaten fresh.

When I bought the place in '97, there was a patio cupboard filled with old glass jar home canned green beans, cauliflower, peaches, etc. Some had clearly gone bad (black mold), others looked fine. But since none was earlier than 1978 I decided not to sample any... and tossed them all, eventually, in the trash. I wouldn't attempt to can anything other than jam/jellies/preserves in a boiling water canner - I think a pressure canner is needed to really be safe with low acid or low sugar stuff.

 

[andrewinorlando]

I can deal with the higher food prices because I'm a bargain hunter and do pretty well at the grocery stores. The thing that gets me is going to stores like Whole Foods Market...yeah, most of it is organic, and the produce looks wonderful, but their prices are out of the ballpark. $7+/pound for chicken breasts?? $19/lb for fish?? Give me a friggin break already. I still get boneless skinless chicken breasts for $1.99 at Publix, and I just can't justify paying Whole Foods prices. WalMart has turned out to be a pretty good place to buy meat, and Winn Dixie's 2 for 1 sales are incredible. Bargains are out there....and the Farmer's Market on the weekend is usually a great bargain for many things.

 

[sudsmaster]

Produce labeled "organic" is generally a high profit item. If I want "organic" I grow it myself. I suppose it costs more to grow organic produce and meat, but, I think it's way overpriced, out of relation with the actual cost of production. It's what the market will bear - people will pay a premium for certified organic stuff. On the other hand, even at organic pricing, food may still be cheaper in relation to per capita income here in the USA than it is in much of the rest of the world.

 

[andrewinorlando]

It probably is cheaper in relation to income, compared to much of the world, but I still won't pay those prices....my favorite - two pounds of "organic" fish filets - $39. At my fish market, fresh cod filets are $12 or $13 for 2 pounds. No one can tell me that it's worth that difference.

Ever notice how some of the Whole Foods staff seem to be stoned much of the time???

 

[polkanut]

One of the ways that my wife and I have cut down on the cost of meat is by eating venison. My Dad is a hunter, ok PETA blast away. In the fall, I'll buy him an extra license so that he can get a deer for us. We then cut it up for roasts, steaks, and grind the remainder for hamburger. Trust me, I would rather eat venison than beef that has been fed hormones and God knows what else.

 

[dalangdon]

I love venison. We used to eat a lot of it when I was a kid. There was a brewery in Omaha that put out some excellent cookbooks for game, and Mom and Dad liked cooking it.

My mom's neighborhood back home is quite wooded, and has way too many deer, but you can't hunt them in the city anymore. One of the reasons it was banned was because our late neighbor used to get a couple of drinks in him, and start shooting at the deer from his back porch.

He wasn't a good aim even when sober, so that caused the neighbors to complain to the city. Plus, he used a shotgun instead of a rifle, so even if he hit one, it would be hard to clean.

We were all relieved when he finally died. He left behind the happiest widow anyone had ever met. ;-)

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, any wild caught fish is by nature "organic". The $20/lb stuff must be farm-raised?

I bought a box of frozen Alaska wild salmon filets a few weeks ago at the Costco Business Center. They're all vacuum packed, so it's easy to take one out a day before, put it in the fridge, and then cook it up for supper the next day. The texture is a little drier and a little tougher than fresh wild Pacific salmon I've eaten (on rare occasion) but it's still good. The price was about $5/lb.

What sort of amuses me is when I see someone buying "organic" produce and then lighting up a cigarette as soon as they leave the market...

 

[polkanut]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that tonights menu is homemade lasagna made with ground venison, garlic bread, tossed salad, Bavarian Cream, and sugar-free Lemon Poppy Seed Torte, and coffee.

 

[58limited]

I love venison, I've been hunting several times but never shot anything. I have an employee who hunts and has given me quite a bit of venison and wild hog, very good eating. I like to eat well. To do this I cook for myself. I can cook restaurant quality food for much cheaper than eating out. I'm fortunate that I live in a shrimping area so I can get good shrimp, and other seafood, for cheap - even fresh off the boat. I look for sale items. Our local store, HEB, has a complete line of processed precooked foods (their brisket is da bomb) that are good and cheaper than name brand equivalents, and I think they taste better. For Christmas, I invited my sister and her family over, but I had to work the ER on the 24th. I decided to buy HEB's ready made Turkey dinner (feeds 6-8) for $60.00. This included a 10 lb turkey, mashed potatoes, gravy, stuffing, green bean casserole, and fresh cranberry coctail. All you have to do is heat it up. Plans changed and I went to their house instead, so I didn't actually buy it. Could I have made all of this for cheaper? Yes, but I would have spent a lot of time cooking and cleaning instead of enjoying the holiday. If my mom were still alive, I wouldn't hestitate to cook with her all day but now I like to relax on holidays instead of spending all my time cooking and cleaning. Did I mention that HEB's food is quite good?

As far as ethanol for fuel, the U.S. can't possibly grow enough corn to feed its people, livestock, and produce enough gasohol to run the country. I've seen some other web sites showing other potential sources for ethanol or methanol (not sure about methanol's combustion properties but it can be used instead of ethanol to produce biodiesel). There is an algea that can be grown in unused stock tanks and ponds. It can potentially produce amounts much much greater per acre than corn (I'm talking WAY more than corn). I'll have to find the link again, I lost track it last year.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

I have had venison and can't say I'm crazy about it it.

In other news, gas today in West L.A. was $3.79/gal. I asked the proprietor if the price of gas included a tube of KY. He didn't get it.......

 

[tolivac]

I can agree with 58limited-we can't grow enough plant matter to feed us,our livestock ,and our cars.Face it, despite what politicians and others say Ethanol is going to be MORE expensive and less efficient as a motor fuel than petroleuem products.You will have to BURN fuel to raise the product for Ethanol!Maybe the Ethanol can be made up using WASTE plant and wood products as its ferment stock Ethanol fuel would be more economically practical.

 

[tolivac]

I may have to take up deerhunting again-saw lots of hunters around the worksite yesterday morning as I got off work.The cost of the food is low-you do have to "get" and clean it-the hunter out here use dogs to herd the deer to them so they can shoot the deer.A shotgun can be used for deerhunting if you use slug loads in it.Then its much like a rifle.The shotgun with slugloads won't have the range or accuracy of a rifle-Some poorly chosen rifle loads and bullets can tear up the deer meat even worse.You can also hunt them with "archery" season-use the bow and arrow-this is a popular method here.After the bow season the hunter can hunt them, some more during the firearms season.These options are popular with both "meat" deerhunters and those who are more concerned with their "Boone&Crockett" score-how large and how many points on the deer's antlers.

 

[sudsmaster]

The biochemists are hard at work trying to create enzymes and yeast/bacteria that will take cellulosic materials like wood chips and switchgrass to turn into ethanol. Also, the algae previously described, although that will take large amounts of water which might not be readily available in more arid climates. The big problem with wood products is the lignin that holds the cellulose together - as I understand it.

However I think the ultimate answer will have to involve nuclear power - there really is no way around it. Solar production has certain limits, as do other renewable energy resources like wind, tides, hydro, etc. The turn towards electricity will result in more electric powered vehicles - and an improvement in battery technology will be needed there, as well. There have been a lot of apparent dead-end technologies explored for battery storage, including borate-based storage cells and inertial flywheel energy storage. We also need to start building a national high-speed passenger rail network, to rival those in Europe and Japan - which would be far more energy efficient than the private automobile or the airplane. And for regional trips - 500 miles or so - high speed rail door to door will probably be as fast as air travel, what with the delays involved in getting to the airport, going through security, congested runways, etc. High speed rail trains can enter the center of a city, rather than having to be placed outside city limits, usually 10 or 30 miles away.

 

[tolivac]

I agree with Sudsmaster-Nuclear power-this can be renewable ennergy if the breeder program is put to work.We need it now.Remember natural and renewable sources cannot provide all of our energy-Nuke power is the answer for the main central power needs.And the US is still rich in nuclear fuel bearing ore.It can be mined and the area restored like after any other mining operation.Yes,the idea of revamping our RR's is another good one-but difficult.You CANNOT have the hi speed passenger trains trying to mingle with the slower heavier freight ones.They will have to be on separate routes.and road-train grade crossings are another headache for hi speed rail.I feel the future of passenger rail will be in the commuter sector.-priamrily large cities to cut back auto commuting.building all of this costs-and all of the questions are WHO PAYS FOR IT?The rail companies don't want to-and users only want to pay a small fare--or back to their cars they go.And some neighborhoods don't want the trains going thru or near them.And taxpayers don't want to pay for these systems-useful as they would be.