The demise of GM Frigidaire.

[kevinpreston8]

Good points all...

Particularly: "Do we know how to get it back? Are we willing to try? Do we even want it?"

I may be in the minority in my thinking, but I lay the blame of our current situation at 20% short sighted corporate mentality, and 80% consumer. I know many of my friends here will consider that ratio backwards.

I think of these issues.

I see people coming out of WalMart with the carts overloaded with Chinese made garbage that even they likely will admit most of which they don't need. They could care less about the company's (debatable) predatory business tactics, they laugh it off. They care about getting a $9 toaster.

People seem to be less and less like Gansky's grandpa. American made? Must be junk is the mentality. Few people look at where things are made. It's not the value that people think of now, it's just price and commoditizing everything.

We see this in labor markets, with offshoring things. I seem to be in the shrinking segment of the population that believes the more you manufacture and produce your own stuff, the more secure you are, and not just from an economy perspective. But many people in business scoff at that. As I have written in the past, slavery may be illegal here, but we offshore a component of it.

Again, you can lay some of this at the feet of the consumer. We are spoiled with low prices that are articifially low because of the way things are. $65 bikes are a good example.

People complain about lack of service, but they gleefully slurp out the WalMart goods. No one sees the real value of service, until of course, THEY try to provide service, then suddenly they question the whole thing.

In my opinion, we are at a real breaking point in terms of quality being so poor in so many goods to hit the price point that people will "load the carts up" with.

Things won't change until people respect quality and worry a little bit more about the real quality of items and a little bit less about what their neighbors think.

 

[oxydolfan]

Let's face it....the real problem was caused by GATT, NAFTA, and all this globalization nonsense.

The corporatists have no allegiance to any land or governing body, and will set up shop wherever it is most profitable.

The real problem is foreign domination of our industries and a corporate culture that's getting rich quick off the whole mess.

People cannot know and act, if there is no access to real, honest information out there regarding trade in the first place.

 

[dalangdon]

I think a big part of the trouble is the "free trade" agreements that we have been entering into for the last 20 years or so.

While globalization is inevitable and desirable, these treaties ignore environmental and human rights issues, and have the net effect of essentially creating slave states in third world nations (including China) and dragging down the standard of living here in the US.

Wages have been stagnant for the last 10 years or so, and are not keeping up with the cost of living. While we have the appearence of affluence, many people are heavily saddled with credit card and mortgage debt.

We need FAIR trade, as well as FREE trade. The corporations should not be expected to insert these provisions into treaties themseleves - it would be borderline illegal for publicly traded companies to to that anyway - but the government sure could. Unfortunately, too many politicians are in the pockets of big corporations.

We also need to do some housekeeping here at home. For our businesses to remain competitive, they need to be relieved of providing healthcare - we should have evolved beyond that by now anyway. Other industrialized nations provide healthcare, using a variety of funding mechanisms. We need to do the same here, both from the standpoint of national security and in the interests of a robust economy.

Finally, we need to get tough with American corporations who use offshore tax shelters to not pay taxes, or to pay less taxes. If they want to say they are "American", and take advantage of the lucrative American consumer market, they should be willing to pay their fair share of taxes. As it stands now, the poor and middle-class, as well as anyone who works for a living, bear a disporportinate burden of the tax obligation.

If Wal-Mart were still run under the principles of Sam Walton (American made products whenever possible) I would be their most enthusiastic customer. But since they are bullying many well-intentioned corporations into off-shoring, and won't let their employees even vote on whether they should organize, I won't shop there.

 

[captainmoody]

Detroit still has one of the highest amount of Chrysler/Ford/GM owners around, but even that is beginning to change. My neighbor (ex UAW worker and caddy owner) just bought a Honda, I also am seeing more Toyotas as well. The workers were pretty loyal here to the domestics, but with all the layoffs that's starting to change. My elderly Father still has a special dislike for anything with a Japanese name (ex WWII Air Force officer)and would kick my you-know-what if I or my siblings even thought about an "Import" "It doesn't matter if they are made here" he says!!
Has anyone seen Detroit lately? There are a lot of abandoned factories. The new big business is the casinos (just what we need, sheesh!) My Grandfather built Packards, both my Aunts worked at AC Spark Plug in Flint, my other Grandfather was a foreman at Howell Electric motor works (they built electric motors for the big 3) I can go on and on. All those factories are long since closed.. My Dad was smart and quit Budd Wheel and opened up an insurance agency in 1954 and that company is still going strong 50+ years later!

 

[goatfarmer]

How many "foreign" cars are actually American made? Toyota has a plant in southern Indiana,and Kentucky,Subaru is a major employer in Lafayette,Indiana,BMW in the Carolina's,Honda in Ohio,the list goes on.So you could conceivably drive a Honda,and have more of it made in the US,than a similar Chevy Suburban,or Ford Escort,which probably comes from Mexico.

 

[captainmoody]

I know that, they have been building them in the US for a while now. it's more of a name thing here. After all, this is (was) the motor city..
I also know many sub assemblies are foreign made on the domestics as well..

 

[kevinpreston8]

You have to remember..

What country does the money go back to? Great for some workers if the foreign company decides to build cars here, but it is still a foreign company, just assembly done in USA. Sure, you can say there is nothing wrong with all the Chinese made stuff because they are American countries, but I don't think a cheap $9 toaster designed by Black and Decker compares with a Honda made here.

Further, there is no more security in those jobs there for the long run the any US factory staying here.

When I see commercials from Toyota bragging about all the jobs they have created here, I want to gag. PR and spin at its best.

Of course, it doesn't help that the CEO of General Motors said in an interview that GMs salvation lies in the Chinese market. While that is a huge market, the guy made it sound as if they don't have a chance unless they get some exclusive access to the Chinese market, which made me want to laugh. Talk about a putz.

 

[sudsman]

2 cents worth

The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetenss of its low price is forgotten

 

[sudsdudeshane]

Oxydol

I ordered Oxydol with Bleach Powder off the internet. I have to say this is one great detergent! The smell is awesome and it cleans my whites very well..especially when I added a bit of Borax. I highly recommend this product an its very reasonable price wise..I wish they sold it in stores in FL

 

[oxydolfan]

Regarding the Oxydol....cool! When the powder materializes in my area, I'll buy it and compare it to my Coldwater Tide.

Have you used it in conjunction with liquid chlorine bleach on whites yet? Or in cold water?

Regarding fair trade: My official position is that, until there is a fundamental change in values in this country, regarding these issues, and change is first effected on the political front, any further attempts to support American industry are completely pointless. Until that time, I'll continue to purchase items I deem of the highest quality and value, that meet my needs, regardless of origin or retailer policy, and at least let the actual product's merits prevail.

 

[irishwashguy]

American Cars and the EV-1 movie----

I have never personally owed an Amerrican car as of yet.Primarily for the reasons that I saw my family growing up go though with the Citation and then the Pontiac that my Mom had terrible service with. They did not even recall the Citations to my knolege.My mother had come home from work in tears because it nearly killed her(it spun in circles five times) The GM Guy would not do anything for her.My mom thought that maybe it was a fluke, and like always, bought an American car. This one had Transmition problems, electical problems, fly wheel, and the list goes on and on. Today my mother drives a Honda Accord and I have a n 03' Civic EX. I have had a few cars, mostly Honda's, one was a Canadian Honda Civic that was great!!! I put over 200,000 miles on that car and mostly I chaged the oil and did regular matinence and got wonderful millege.If GM really cared about their business, they would take a little more pride in what they would build,.
I saw the EV-1 movie.That was an impressive car. I would have even considered having one.It was the best of everything, and had one very good feature, it was zero poluting, no transmition either. They showed an EV-! being serviced.He Rotated the tires and filled the wiper fluid.These cars do not have alot of parts to break, which is a big proffit for the car companies.This was so much of a departure from what I have seen GM produce. It was better than anything else I have seen them produce. They had decided to be inovative insread of pre-historic. They were perfect for my needs. they felt alot of preasure from the big oil companies. I was truely sad to see that they did what they did to the EV-1.i think that everyone should see this movie. It will make you thing more outside the box, but then I tknow that most of us do.

 

[neptunebob]

Irishwashguy I'm glad you saw the movie and that a theater in Oregon was willing to show it. We can't see it here in Pittsburgh, but we think Senator Rick has something to do with that. I got into soooo much trouble for stating my opinion about General Motors and the aggravation of owning a car, that I have to go in a corner like a bad boy (me and Suze Orman, with her opinion about leasing). If your mother grew up in the 50's she probably had good memories of GM cars and could not believe that a Citation would spin 5 times. My mother can't believe that tires for the Monte Carlo cost almost 400 dollars five years ago because "I always bought Chevrolet because it was a family car". The dealer told her that the tires cost more becuase it was a "Eurosport, and had European trim" - and expected her to believe that!

We Irish just can't keep our mouths (and our keyboards) shut!. Last night I took my sister to choir practice. The Monte Carlo won't start if it is hot, so I stopped at her house and had to walk to the church. On the way back one of the other members gave us a ride home in his Chevy Equinox that he told us he Leased. Oh, bite my tongue, it was all I could do to not blurt out my opinion about leasing (Never Lease - EVER!!)!

 

[launderess]

Shamless Thread Hijack

Never understood people who lease consumer goods/appliances. Yes, it can let one drive a new car/have a new television if one does not have ready money, but it is just chucking money out of the window. Better to scrounge around a local thrift and or eBay for a cheap used appliance.

Now leasing a car IMHO is the biggest game going. For some people/businesses who can write off most of the cost, it might make sense, but the rest are simply wasting their money.

There is this great gal who writes for the Washington Post, cannot remember her name at the moment; but she is black and was raised by her grandmother (along with several sisters), who worked as a nurse's aide. The woman tells stories of how her grandmother hated credit, and paid all of her bills ON TIME. She would even walk to meet the mailman to get her mail so she could send bills out the same day she got them. On the rare occasions she did use credit, she paid off the amount fast as she could. In short she lived within her means and tought this to her grandchildren. This sort of attitude is how Americans used to live, until easy credit took over.

Speak to anyone who lived through or was born to parents that lived through the Great Depression. Those people knew how to demand and expect value for money, and didn't throw their money around. Just so happens many of those people are now in their 60's and above and are reaping the rewards of good financial stewardship. Their homes are paid for and worth many,many times more than what they paid out. Count that equity, plus any pension benefits, savings, investments and Social Security, and most are living quite well. Something their children and grand-children probably will not be able to say when they reach their golden years if they keep spending more than they make, and not saving.

L.

 

[neptunebob]

Laundress, it sounds like you watch Suze Orman too!

 

[launderess]

No, actually had more respect for Ms. Orman before she started appearing in product commercials, especially for cars.

L.

 

[knitwits1975]

General Motors Blunders

They also f**ked up when discontinuing the Caprice in 1997. Police car and Taxi Fleets alone would have made the car worth continuing. In fact, I haven't seen any emergency vehicles (ambulance, fire, police, rescue) badged GM in years. But that's OK, because I'm sure Ford appreciated the business. They refuse to make hybrid cars, but that's OK, Toyota has that one taken care of, right. They tout that they make some 10 or more vehicles that get 30 miles to a gallon, problem is that other auto makers are boasting well over 40 MPG on some models. So basically when we see a GM vehicle, we see the Comcast truck, the Qwest truck, an SUV, or a fancy car. So quite frankly, until General motors can get their shit together (for these reasons and many others), they are going to be missing out on a lot of customer base. And as far as I am concerned, Suze Ormon is dead.

 

[neptunebob]

Someone here said that GM also stopped making the traditional "DeVille" Cadillacs too. What are all the funeral homes going to do? What other car can be turned into a hearse?

 

[tumbler]

GM/Frigidaire

Just my opinion-the old GM Frigidaire washers were some of the best ever produced by U.S. industry. My mom had 3 of them; one at home, one in our vacation home, one in an investment property. Not one of them lasted less than 20 years, and only one ever required a repair, when a sock got into the pump and broke the impeller. The GM-Delco motors which ran them were also bulletproof; I took the motor out of one of the dryers she owned and made a bench-top buffer/wirebrush machine out of it, and a friend is still using it! (made in 1964). Currently, I drive a 2004 Chevy Astro van I bought new; other than a relatively minor problem with the differential pinion shaft, repaired under warranty, I've had absolutely NO problems with this vehicle, and now have over 100,000 miles on it. I am rather anal about maintenance, as I have been with anything mechanical I own that I depend on. Unfortunately, they no longer make the Astro. I'd agree that greed is the main reason these corporations operate the way they do now-cutting their good product lines, firing employees, making stuff overseas, etc. Greed is a great motivator, but like all things, must be used in moderation. We used to have things like antitrust laws to control it. It is our fault that we no longer use these tools to regulate business; just look at who we elect to public office all over the country!

 

[Cybrvanr]

Astro vans

The Astro van was one of GM's last great hurrah's IMHO. My father has owned 3 of them so far. A 1985, 1992, and currently a 2000 model. I have a 1988. Dad put over 200,000 on his first two, and is working on that on his third. Mine has almost 300,000 miles on it! I bought it when I was 20 years old...all my friends gave me heck about buying a minivan. Of course, I had to correct them and tell them that Astro vans aren't minivans because they are built on a truck. Of course, they weren't ragging on me when they wanted to take my van on road trips!!!

 

[kevinpreston8]

Speaking of vans....

On my last company car, when we had more choices, I was late getting my order in, and all that was left were Chevy Ventures. I thought, yech, what a car to get stuck with.

Well, the sticker on this thing was $27k, so I was lucky, it was the most expensive of the standard (no additional out of pocket expenses) cars available. This thing had electric doors on both sides, dual air, captains chairs, electric everything, and was like driving a couch it was so comfortable. Getting my infant son in and out was a dream, and all seats folded down. When we moved, all my sheds were broken down and hauled in the thing with no problem. Of course it did not handle like a sports car, but handling was fair and it was not top heavy. I could take 7 people in it very comfortably, and went up a mountain road with my whole family and parents in comfort.

After many of the very hardest miles, with A/C almost always on, I had the front brakes and tires replaced, and a few oil changes. That was it.

What a nice, comfortable car, and while not cheap for a van, it sure was worth it. If in the market for a minivan, I would not have even thought of a Chevrolet. This just proves my point that when interested in a car, drive everything. You may be shocked.