The Home Entertainment Industry

[phillymatt53]

This thread is based on my long-time experiences as a professional servicer of Home Entertainment Equipment, and my own personal equipment choices.
If any of it sounds "biased", it's only because I don't mince words. I like sharing the truth about such things to others in hopes that it'll save them money and any aggravation.
And, it's similar to the speaking out from others about Home Appliances and the current state of things.
So here goes......

We all want quality, and we all want to spend our money on something worthy.
But the industry mostly treats the public like silly puppets, catering to their conditioned lives with glorified advertizing and snazzy appearance.
I've been "in the guts" of literally thousands of products from TV's to high-end stereo stuff, along with "vintage" antiques/heirlooms that required special attention.

But as the decades progressed, I've noticed the so-called improvements and technology changes.
Some, were a good idea, others, not pretty.
The stuff sold these days in my opinion is garbage, in comparison to what I call "The Golden Years" of audio.
Those were from the early-late 1960's up to the late 1980's, centering on 1974 to 1980 as the peak years of "HiFi".

Look at what you're forced to buy these days, if you want something....
It may looks snazzy, and might even sound nice to your ears.
Digital processing can impress you.
Convenient bluetooth, streaming, etc., makes it more attractive, because you've been handed that stuff as a result of the slow conditioning process of society.

Then how come the substantial numbers of people wanting that vintage stuff again?
You know, the "Analog" stuff that used to be king.
I'll tell you.....
Because humans speak and hear in analog, not digital.
Once you add Digital to the mix, you're messing with the original sound.
Like I stated, processing analog is impressive to the ears, I know that.
But my trained ears can still, even at my age, tell the difference.
And no, it's not my mind doing tricks on me.
Listening to music in analog on analog equipment is and can be such a seductive and surprising experience that some have re-imagined again.
I hear people all the time telling me that.
Sure, I listen to CD's, and online to MP3's.
It's nice, and one can get used to that, even lazy.
But plop a record on a decent turntable..... voila...... something comes back to you that all those years of digital listening made you forget.

By the way, whenever you hear the mention of Tube equipment having a "warm sound", it's all in your head, something dreamed up by somebody on the internet because tubes have heated filaments which warm up and get hot.
My expensive testing equipment and analizing procedures don't have human ears or human biases stemming from internet talk to sway them.
And confirm what I'm saying.

I'm wondering if anyone here can understand what I'm trying to share, or feels the same way.
Thanks for reading.
M

 

[DADoES]

I've been deaf in the right ear for 18 years. I'm beyond the point of concern for nuances of digital vs. analog and such. I am content that I can still hear anything.

 

[ea56]

I’m virtually deaf in my left ear and have been wearing an hearing aid in that ear for about 15 years and I can still tell the difference between analog and digital sound. And I prefer the richer sound of analog, it seems the “swell” and is “warm sounding” while digital is kinda “flat” and cold.

In 1956 my Dad bought my Mom a brand new beautiful Cherry wood cabinet RCA Victor Hi-Fi console and that radio/phonograph had the most beautiful sound of any that I’ve ever heard. It wasn’t stereo, just Hi-Fi sound, although there was a button that had the provision for stereophonic sound, that is provided you also purchased the matching stereo speaker cabinet for the opposite side of the room, which we didn’t have or miss.

Eddie

 

[qsd-dan]

Digital can have a thin/harsh sound to it at times but it's usually in the analog to digital conversion process through the ears of a sound engineer. The quality of DAC's makes difference, too. If it's done correctly, it sounds spectacular.

I use various phono cartridge's to custom tailor the sound I want. My Audio Technica 440ML cart brightens up vinyl that sounds dull, but it can sound thin and shrilly (like badly converted CD's) on brighter material. I also use it on CD-4 quadraphonic material. Otherwise, I use a Shure V15-VxMR. Different turntables affect the sound. My grease bearing Garrard 301 adds bass punch while the Thorens 124 sounds a bit sweeter in the high end. Both make my Technics SL-1200 MK3 sound.....lacking (it's all in the tonearm though). The biggest influence of the sound of vinyl is a good record cleaner. I've used a VPI 16.5 for 20 years, back when it was very affordable new ($375 then vs $1,200 now.)

I use an MP3 player doing yard work or out in the shop for convenience and it's better than eating up batteries via a Walkman cassette player or cd player skipping around with every bump or jolt. I still have my Sony Walkman cassette player from 1992. Don't know why, but still have it. Maybe it'll be worth money in 17 years when it's 50 years old, lol.

 

[vacerator]

Yes it all depends on the format, bit resolution, quality of mixing and sound engineering, and personal ear attenuation. Streaming is the most popular today especially with the younger people. There are excellent streaming options but they are pricey. That said, vynil can also vary in fidelity. Most audiophiles refer to bright sounding to highs and treble. The tube warm sound more references phono preamps, and many are available. Vintage amps and receivers had mosfet transistors which do sound warmer and can make better bass if not only more in the subsonic range. Some high end new Yamaha models still have them.
New equipment does have some excellent advancement in efficiency and clarity. Less heat, binding post speaker terminals vs. the vintage spring clips, coaxial and subwoofer outputs, etc. triple bipolar transistors are tuned using the Baker clamp circuit to smooth out the switching wave. Metal oxide field emitting transistors can remain always on at lower wattage gain for the vintage class A amp sound. The difference between bipolar and mosfets is that the first is a voltage controlled transistor, and the second are current controlled, having a dual gate input and a field output. Floating amp designs for expensive models is another option. These are not grounded the same as others.
My system is versatile for fm, Bluetooth, CDs and vynil. I have two rooms connected to it with different room acoustics. Vintage heavy non ported 12 inch woofer 3 way floor speakers in the room with more upholstery. Bose Acoutimass am 5 II from 1991 with four cubes at ceiling level and an extra Bose subwoofer that is self amplified and can be on or off in the room with more wood and less furniture. I have a vintage equalizer and can power both rooms with no loss of volume or fidelity. Square feet for both adjoining rooms is about 850. Amp is the Yamaha S 801 for 100 watts and 2 channels. Surround sound equipment when combined in one amp adds noise to the circuitry with each feature that must be cleaned up with more circuitry.
I have a good Yamaha CD single disc player with USB stick ability, not an sacd type though. I have a 1978 Technics SL 220 belt drive turntable and a new SL 1500-C direct drive. I have four different cartridges and head shells for easy swapping. Three elliptical and one micro line stylus. Each have different mv outputs and slightly different channel balance and separation. Two sets of headphones for private listening. One is analog only one is Bluetooth optional. I toggle between the equalizer and the second subwoofer or neither for the best result of the material.

 

[phillymatt53]

I've been deaf in the right ear for 18 years. I'm beyond the point of concern for nuances of digital vs. analog and such. I am content that I can still hear anything.

Ah, I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[phillymatt53]

I’m virtually deaf in my left ear and have been wearing an hearing aid in that ear for about 15 years and I can still tell the difference between analog and digital sound. And I prefer the richer sound of analog, it seems the “swell” and is “warm sounding” while digital is kinda “flat” and cold.

In 1956 my Dad bought my Mom a brand new beautiful Cherry wood cabinet RCA Victor Hi-Fi console and that radio/phonograph had the most beautiful sound of any that I’ve ever heard. It wasn’t stereo, just Hi-Fi sound, although there was a button that had the provision for stereophonic sound, that is provided you also purchased the matching stereo speaker cabinet for the opposite side of the room, which we didn’t have or miss.

Eddie

Yes indeed, RCA Victor was a premium brand name for a long time.
My parents had one, a monster stereo costing $600 in 1963.
Also in French Provincial cherry.
When pop got drunk, sometimes he'd crank that thing up and annoy the neighbors with Connie Francis records.
Speaking of RCA Victor, I've restored and customized a 1963 console that I got back in 2010.
A neighbor passed away, and their family was cleaning out her house.
It's now in my dining room and used on occasion, like if I have company over for dinner.
It's got RCA's best tube chassis's from 1963, the amp's been custom designed by me, and now has a Garrard record changer with Pickering cartridge, along with 12 inch high compliance woofers, midranges and tweeters in tuned chambers.
The thing kicks butt now!
Even my picky audiophile friends have been stunned and amazed by this console, one even offered me $1000.00 for it, but I won't sell it.
Here's a picture of it from a couple of years ago.

 

[vacerator]

Oh Connie O' Oh Connie O'! I can disturb the neighbors if I want to as well. Viki Carr, Ingelbert, etc.
I forgot to mention that most new amps. do not have Pre-outs or Main inputs for a graphic equalizer. If you have a source with a built in preamp, you can use one with it plugged into an auxiliary source input. Some do have a main input to the amp for every source input, so if you have a preamp with phono, tuner, tape, and aux. inputs, it will work with each component. I use mine with the phono preamp that isn't very strong.
I have a good servicer who is also a Yamaha factory authorized warranty servicer.

 

[phillymatt53]

Digital can have a thin/harsh sound to it at times but it's usually in the analog to digital conversion process through the ears of a sound engineer. The quality of DAC's makes difference, too. If it's done correctly, it sounds spectacular.

I use various phono cartridge's to custom tailor the sound I want. My Audio Technica 440ML cart brightens up vinyl that sounds dull, but it can sound thin and shrilly (like badly converted CD's) on brighter material. I also use it on CD-4 quadraphonic material. Otherwise, I use a Shure V15-VxMR. Different turntables affect the sound. My grease bearing Garrard 301 adds bass punch while the Thorens 124 sounds a bit sweeter in the high end. Both make my Technics SL-1200 MK3 sound.....lacking (it's all in the tonearm though). The biggest influence of the sound of vinyl is a good record cleaner. I've used a VPI 16.5 for 20 years, back when it was very affordable new ($375 then vs $1,200 now.)

I use an MP3 player doing yard work or out in the shop for convenience and it's better than eating up batteries via a Walkman cassette player or cd player skipping around with every bump or jolt. I still have my Sony Walkman cassette player from 1992. Don't know why, but still have it. Maybe it'll be worth money in 17 years when it's 50 years old, lol.

Oh boy!
So I take it that you're one of those Audiophile guys.
I'll agree, the equipment does determine the final quality of sound.
My neighbor next door is into the "high-end" stuff too.
He's had me restore-service-tune up quite a few pieces over the years.
I'm the only one he trusts to work on that stuff.
So far he's brought me.....
2 Thorens 124's with the Grado wooden tonearms, flawless condition.
a Dual 701 in pristine condition
Marantz amp, Preamp
Macintosh amps,
A pair of AR LST speakers
A technics RS 1500 reel to reel, immaculate
Harman Kardon tube amps and preamps
Other assorted stuff.
He's even brought me some of his friends "high end" stuff to repair.

I've got a "modest" Technics system, hand-picked components, excellent "specs" and performance, with Advent Maestro speakers and an Akai reel to reel.
Linear tracking turntable with Audio Technica cartridge.
Along with a built-by me classic tube amp that gets occasional use.
And I designed a multi-function tape machine switching unit that also has the SRS system in it.
One day I put on a CD of Aretha Franklin's "I can't stand the rain", and it blew me away - I closed my eyes and I could swear she was right in front of me!
I've had some of my audiophile friends stop by and they've been impressed with my stuff, but I'm not one to make a big deal over it.

I'm also not one to go nuts with "high end" branded equipment though.
However, I can appreciate the quality of some of it.
But some brands are only adored, cherished and priced sky-high for their brand names. - the classic Audiophile brand bias syndrome.
For instance - Macintosh, the vintage stuff.
My neighbor's MC 2100 amp, he's got 2 of them now - over-rated in my opinion.
Go figure, the amp's rated at 0.25% harmonic distortion according to the manual.
While my Technics is listed as having only 0.008% - huge difference, even though those levels are really not heard by normal people, maybe perhaps by dogs or aliens from another planet with super-hearing abilities.

 

[phillymatt53]

Oh Connie O' Oh Connie O'! I can disturb the neighbors if I want to as well. Viki Carr, Ingelbert, etc.
I forgot to mention that most new amps. do not have Pre-outs or Main inputs for a graphic equalizer. If you have a source with a built in preamp, you can use one with it plugged into an auxiliary source input. Some do have a main input to the amp for every source input, so if you have a preamp with phono, tuner, tape, and aux. inputs, it will work with each component. I use mine with the phono preamp that isn't very strong.
I have a good servicer who is also a Yamaha factory authorized warranty servicer.

I've been certified to work on a lot of brands, due to my training and work.

 

[phillymatt53]

Oh Connie O' Oh Connie O'! I can disturb the neighbors if I want to as well. Viki Carr, Ingelbert, etc.
I forgot to mention that most new amps. do not have Pre-outs or Main inputs for a graphic equalizer. If you have a source with a built in preamp, you can use one with it plugged into an auxiliary source input. Some do have a main input to the amp for every source input, so if you have a preamp with phono, tuner, tape, and aux. inputs, it will work with each component. I use mine with the phono preamp that isn't very strong.
I have a good servicer who is also a Yamaha factory authorized warranty servicer.

Ahh!.... Viki Carr!...... Humperdink!
Sinatra!, etc etc etc..... bring it on baby!
Oh, and Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, Tammy Wynette etc... of course!

 

[vacerator]

Well no Matt, I doubt I can be considered an audiophile. My ear is more discriminating of detail than many though. Your friend's MC 2100 is from 1977, and then most of their better units were still hybrid tube. .025% thd is marginal. My Pioneer SX 780 was .005%. He has some fine stuff for sure.
Even the new Mac equipment is way out of my budget, and seems over priced for what it is. I guess American labor cost may be partly why. They've recently been acquired by the conglomerate owning Bose. Had I not lost my 1993 Sony amp to lightning, I'd still be using it. It needs a power supply repair at least. It has 5.1 pro logic surround which I never used. It was a garage sale find.
If you've heard of Michael Fremmer of analog planet and The tracking angle, he's a true one. He has a separate line and panel for his audio room. He has a business testing high end equipment for manufacturers from home. So he only owns some of it. He used to play as an artist in NY and has been a voice actor for a few films. He also was a sound editor. His collection of vinyl is an entire large room. He owns several cartridges valued in the thousands and higher.

 

[phillymatt53]

Well no Matt, I doubt I can be considered an audiophile. My ear is more discriminating of detail than many though. Your friend's MC 2100 is from 1977, and then most of their better units were still hybrid tube. .025% thd is marginal. My Pioneer SX 780 was .005%. He has some fine stuff for sure.
Even the new Mac equipment is way out of my budget, and seems over priced for what it is. I guess American labor cost may be partly why. They've recently been acquired by the conglomerate owning Bose. Had I not lost my 1993 Sony amp to lightning, I'd still be using it. It needs a power supply repair at least. It has 5.1 pro logic surround which I never used. It was a garage sale find.
If you've heard of Michael Fremmer of analog planet and The tracking angle, he's a true one. He has a separate line and panel for his audio room. He has a business testing high end equipment for manufacturers from home. So he only owns some of it. He used to play as an artist in NY and has been a voice actor for a few films. He also was a sound editor. His collection of vinyl is an entire large room. He owns several cartridges valued in the thousands and higher.

I've had dealings with several of those reviewers and servicers over the years.
And I've heard of Fremmer, read some of his articles.
One guy, in particular I had issues with, Jim McShane, who's got a website for upgrades, modifications, and parts for Harmon Kardon tube amps and stuff.
He didn't appreciate my comments on an audio blog site and used his "elite" status to get me banned.
The issue I spoke of concerns his modifications to those amps, because he insists that they are not troublesome, which I disagree with.
Particularly, taking account of today's increased line voltage increases causing bias and tube voltage issues, causing cooked tubes and overheating.
Which I had to substantially change when I serviced my neighbor's HK tube amp, using his kit of parts.
Him having that snotty attitude and in denial of the facts which I know are real, doesn't rate well in my opinion.

 

[vacerator]

Oh, nobody needs a snotty or snobby attitude. A hobby is meant for enjoyment. If they can't be helpful, or at least say it works for them, but may not for others, then bye bye!

 

[phillymatt53]

Another thing that I find disturbing is wattage ratings on the new consumer audio equipment, amplifiers and speakers included.
I know what "real watts" are, they've been stated decades ago honestly and accurately.

But these days, say, a given amplifer might be rated at 150 watts per channel.
And that amplifier, in my shop, under testing with calibrated test equipment, failed to live up to that rating.
It barely made 80 watts/channel before clipping and distorting.
And I doubt it would even hit 100 watts using "peak power" ratings, which is used to confuse the customer.
I've seen this time and time again.
However, the famed Pioneer SX-1250 monster receiver was rated as 160 watts/channel, and actually lived up to that rating, so it was built with honesty.

But unless you plan on using those things in a football stadium, the average home doesn't need that power, because it's just expensive wasted headroom that's you'll never use.
Unless, of course, you want the police knocking at your door and hearing loss later on.

The inflated ratings of speakers also amuse me.
I'd love to see a speaker system handle 400 watts as advertized.
That woofer would fry in moments!

Decades ago, ratings were strictly held to the standards of the FTC, to clarify and eliminate false advertizing.
But somewhere along the like, manufacturers continued to lie and inflate, in order to sell.

 

[vacerator]

Indded Matt. The stereo wars in the 70s were competitive and they were often rated conservatively and even surpassed the published spec's. The type of measuring equipment matters too. The power transformers were larger and that makes a big difference even at the same watt ratings. A new example is the Yamaha AS -1200 compared the S 701. The results are online by an independent reviewer. While only 10 watts difference between them, the s 701 doesn't quite double down on the power bandwidth in the middle gain with 100 watts/channel while the AS 1200 does with 90 watts. It has a torroidal transformer and larger power capacitors and a floating amp design. This comes with a premium price of $2,900 vs. $800. It also has VU meters. Weight is 48 lbs. and 27 lbs respectively.
I just couldn't afford it. Buying vintage restored is just as expensive and you only get a 90 day warranty usually. It's a risk buying a vintage as is unit for less and possibly having to spend hundreds of dollars for a repair later. I wasn't given approval for one. The new models are warranted 2 and 5 years which is likely also in the higher price.