Hoses extended:
The Importance Of Keeping Your Hoses Tucked Away
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Hoses tucked safely away:
And yes, it took me most of the day...
Found some suitable 1/2" heater hose to extend the drain hose. Once I had finally accepted that I'd have to use modern stainless worm-drive hose clamps on the unicouple, the rest was relatively simple, just time-consuming.
Used a Dremel cutoff wheel to remove the chromed ridged ferrules on the unicouple fittings. Installed the new hoses, and put the washer in place to make them just long enough to reach the sink faucet, but not so long they wouldn't tuck in.
Noticed that the longer hoses were protruding out of the bottom of the back storage area on the washer, which of course wouldn't do. So I found some sheet metal and cut, banged, folded, and drilled it to form a bottom panel to keep the hoses from "drooping".
Everything seemed fine, so I decided to run a real load. But after everything had warmed up and cooled, couldn't get the hoses to tuck away again. Opened the back of the machine up again. Decided the new water valve was keeping the back panel too far from the hose protector, and that the hoses were getting jammed into the gap so they couldn't be tucked away completely. So I moved the valve assembly up as far as possible, and cut a layer off the double-layer of thick rubber that supposedly protects the valve wiring from splashes from above (and probably from prying fingers as well). The rubber looked home-spun to begin with so I didn't feel too bad about cutting into it.
Finally I figured that the panel holding the hose protector could be bent outwards so that it contacted the back panel, preventing the hoses from getting trapped in the gap.
Ran another full load, and was able to tuck the hoses completely away this time. We'll see if that keeps up. There is one more mod I can do - a sheet metal panel to help guide the hoses past the hose protector so they can make the extra bend to store the extra length.
With all this running of loads, I found I was robbing the Bosch in the main kitchen to provide the KA with some dirty dishes to clean. No sense in wasting heat and water.
Next mini-project: I think the thermostat on the air heater is triggering too soon, and the flow of air isn't warm enough to do a good enough job of drying the dishes. I will probably take apart the heater on the KDS-17A I have in the shop, and compare the thermostat on that with the one in the KD-2P. These thermostats are only supposed to shut off current to the heater if the fan quits completely, but the thermostat in the KD-2P acts like it's cutting out the heater much sooner than that (and I can hear the fan going all the time, with a good flow of air).
Found some suitable 1/2" heater hose to extend the drain hose. Once I had finally accepted that I'd have to use modern stainless worm-drive hose clamps on the unicouple, the rest was relatively simple, just time-consuming.
Used a Dremel cutoff wheel to remove the chromed ridged ferrules on the unicouple fittings. Installed the new hoses, and put the washer in place to make them just long enough to reach the sink faucet, but not so long they wouldn't tuck in.
Noticed that the longer hoses were protruding out of the bottom of the back storage area on the washer, which of course wouldn't do. So I found some sheet metal and cut, banged, folded, and drilled it to form a bottom panel to keep the hoses from "drooping".
Everything seemed fine, so I decided to run a real load. But after everything had warmed up and cooled, couldn't get the hoses to tuck away again. Opened the back of the machine up again. Decided the new water valve was keeping the back panel too far from the hose protector, and that the hoses were getting jammed into the gap so they couldn't be tucked away completely. So I moved the valve assembly up as far as possible, and cut a layer off the double-layer of thick rubber that supposedly protects the valve wiring from splashes from above (and probably from prying fingers as well). The rubber looked home-spun to begin with so I didn't feel too bad about cutting into it.
Finally I figured that the panel holding the hose protector could be bent outwards so that it contacted the back panel, preventing the hoses from getting trapped in the gap.
Ran another full load, and was able to tuck the hoses completely away this time. We'll see if that keeps up. There is one more mod I can do - a sheet metal panel to help guide the hoses past the hose protector so they can make the extra bend to store the extra length.
With all this running of loads, I found I was robbing the Bosch in the main kitchen to provide the KA with some dirty dishes to clean. No sense in wasting heat and water.
Next mini-project: I think the thermostat on the air heater is triggering too soon, and the flow of air isn't warm enough to do a good enough job of drying the dishes. I will probably take apart the heater on the KDS-17A I have in the shop, and compare the thermostat on that with the one in the KD-2P. These thermostats are only supposed to shut off current to the heater if the fan quits completely, but the thermostat in the KD-2P acts like it's cutting out the heater much sooner than that (and I can hear the fan going all the time, with a good flow of air).
Bad Thermostat
Checked the old one with an ohm-meter, and it registers full resistance (open) at room temp. Pulled the thermostats from the 17A and 21A, they both register zero ohms (closed) at room temp. Also put the DW on a watt meter, and this confirmed that heater was not functioning (drawing only 26 watts, which is about what you'd expect for the fan motor and timer).
Soooooo... used the tstat from the 21A in the KD-2P. Voila! Heater activates, system draying over 1,000 watts, now the dishes will get drier than before (they weren't getting very dry at all with just an unheated air flow).
Now have to check with the local appliance parts store to see if they can get a Tstat for a 21A. I figure the 21A has a better chance than a 17A, and I know they won't be able to reference a KD-2P.
BTW, the old Tstat also looked like someone replaced it - somewhat inexpertly, with mis-matched screws and lock washers as spacers. Probably needed the spacers because the one they put in doesn't fit the same as the original one probably did.
Ahh... warm plates at last!
Checked the old one with an ohm-meter, and it registers full resistance (open) at room temp. Pulled the thermostats from the 17A and 21A, they both register zero ohms (closed) at room temp. Also put the DW on a watt meter, and this confirmed that heater was not functioning (drawing only 26 watts, which is about what you'd expect for the fan motor and timer).
Soooooo... used the tstat from the 21A in the KD-2P. Voila! Heater activates, system draying over 1,000 watts, now the dishes will get drier than before (they weren't getting very dry at all with just an unheated air flow).
Now have to check with the local appliance parts store to see if they can get a Tstat for a 21A. I figure the 21A has a better chance than a 17A, and I know they won't be able to reference a KD-2P.
BTW, the old Tstat also looked like someone replaced it - somewhat inexpertly, with mis-matched screws and lock washers as spacers. Probably needed the spacers because the one they put in doesn't fit the same as the original one probably did.
Ahh... warm plates at last!
Even better news
I finally gave the seller of the dishwasher a call. I updated him on the progress, and asked him about the upper side racks. He said it rang a bell, and he had thought he had included them with the washer. He said he'll look around to see if he can find them, and give me a call in a couple of days.
Didn't ask him about the soap dish... didn't want to push my luck ;-)
I finally gave the seller of the dishwasher a call. I updated him on the progress, and asked him about the upper side racks. He said it rang a bell, and he had thought he had included them with the washer. He said he'll look around to see if he can find them, and give me a call in a couple of days.
Didn't ask him about the soap dish... didn't want to push my luck ;-)
Brent-Aucoin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 887
Thanks for all of your pictures.
That is such a beautiful machine!
It looks super!
Brent
That is such a beautiful machine!
It looks super!
Brent
varicyclevoice
Well-known member
Wow
You have everything so beautifully arranged! Very nice job!
You have everything so beautifully arranged! Very nice job!
Happy Ending
Tonight I picked up the missing top cup racks... now the KD-2P is complete!
Tonight I picked up the missing top cup racks... now the KD-2P is complete!
a wonderful project...
...and a great dishwasher. Thanks for sharing with us. I wonder, do you suppose that a shop which does hydralics or serious air-conditioning work could replace those stainless steel hose clamps with the real thing? The would certainly have a need for crimp on fastenings, no?
...and a great dishwasher. Thanks for sharing with us. I wonder, do you suppose that a shop which does hydralics or serious air-conditioning work could replace those stainless steel hose clamps with the real thing? The would certainly have a need for crimp on fastenings, no?
Thanks, Brent and Varicycle.
I was looking back on my experience with this machine - I got it April 2, and it's taken me about a month to get it to the point where I think it's ready for regular use. I am curious about tis water consumption - and am planning at some point to measure the drain water...
I also thought to summarize all the work that needed to be done to get the machine into service:
1) Un-jam stuck drain/recirculation valve
2) Fix stuck Start switch
3) Design, fabricate, and install replacement lid hinges
4) Select and fit appropriate hinge springs
5) Select and Replace inlet valve
6) Replace hoses and extend them about two feet to reach faucet from location beside countertop
7) Design, fabricate and install new bottom panel to block longer hoses from dragging on floor
8) Troubleshoot and replace Kitchenaire heater thermostat
9) Procure missing upper side racks
All along the way it's been a kind of journey of discovery, working for the first few weeks without a service manual and trying to figure out what was missing and what needed to be corrected (such as an incorrect fill valve and mis-routed hoses). Along the way I've been impressed with Hobart's initial design and workmanship - save perhaps for the original flimsy pot-metal lid hinges. It may not be the most energy or water efficient dishwasher in the world today, but it gets dishes clean in about 20 minutes, and bone dry in another 20. Not too many modern dishwashers can claim that speed record.
I was looking back on my experience with this machine - I got it April 2, and it's taken me about a month to get it to the point where I think it's ready for regular use. I am curious about tis water consumption - and am planning at some point to measure the drain water...
I also thought to summarize all the work that needed to be done to get the machine into service:
1) Un-jam stuck drain/recirculation valve
2) Fix stuck Start switch
3) Design, fabricate, and install replacement lid hinges
4) Select and fit appropriate hinge springs
5) Select and Replace inlet valve
6) Replace hoses and extend them about two feet to reach faucet from location beside countertop
7) Design, fabricate and install new bottom panel to block longer hoses from dragging on floor
8) Troubleshoot and replace Kitchenaire heater thermostat
9) Procure missing upper side racks
All along the way it's been a kind of journey of discovery, working for the first few weeks without a service manual and trying to figure out what was missing and what needed to be corrected (such as an incorrect fill valve and mis-routed hoses). Along the way I've been impressed with Hobart's initial design and workmanship - save perhaps for the original flimsy pot-metal lid hinges. It may not be the most energy or water efficient dishwasher in the world today, but it gets dishes clean in about 20 minutes, and bone dry in another 20. Not too many modern dishwashers can claim that speed record.
Panthera,
I did some calling around but kept on running into dead-ends. Either companies didn't want to deal with stuff they didn't provide, or they didn't have the correct type of crimp fittings.
I can get the plain brass ferrules, and have seen the nickel plated ones on the internet - albeit in bulk quantities. I am considering making my own crimp dies and using a bench vice to crimp a fitting or two, as a test. It wouldn't be fancy but it would do the trick. The actual crimping tools run about $400. In any case, the stainless worm-drive hose clamps don't look as bad as I feared, and also they don't interfere with the attachment or removal of the unicouple from the faucet.
I did some calling around but kept on running into dead-ends. Either companies didn't want to deal with stuff they didn't provide, or they didn't have the correct type of crimp fittings.
I can get the plain brass ferrules, and have seen the nickel plated ones on the internet - albeit in bulk quantities. I am considering making my own crimp dies and using a bench vice to crimp a fitting or two, as a test. It wouldn't be fancy but it would do the trick. The actual crimping tools run about $400. In any case, the stainless worm-drive hose clamps don't look as bad as I feared, and also they don't interfere with the attachment or removal of the unicouple from the faucet.
no, they do not look bad at all.
Rich, I think the whole thing looks great - from start to finish. I have been wondering about those pot metal hinges. Could someone have forced them at some point? They just don't match up with the otherwise outstanding quality in this lovely machine.
Thanks again for sharing.
Keven
Rich, I think the whole thing looks great - from start to finish. I have been wondering about those pot metal hinges. Could someone have forced them at some point? They just don't match up with the otherwise outstanding quality in this lovely machine.
Thanks again for sharing.
Keven
Each fill should use 2 and one third gallons. The purge amount you will have to measure. Total water consumption will have to take into consideration the extra amount needed to fill the long dong silver fill hose.
The great thing about those three top rack sections is that if you have big cookie sheets or a large paella pan, you can take out one or both of the side sections and the dishwasher will accommodate the items perfectly.
The great thing about those three top rack sections is that if you have big cookie sheets or a large paella pan, you can take out one or both of the side sections and the dishwasher will accommodate the items perfectly.
As high as your faucet is, do you have a length of washing machine drain hose to put on the bottom of the unicouple to carry the drain water down to near the drain in your sink? If you can find either a piece with a gradual bend or one with an elbow near the bottom, it can direct the water to the drain without causing splashing in the sink. I keep mine in the little tilt out bin behind the panel in front of the sink. Yours would obviously need a bigger storage space.
What a great feeling to have it all done! It looks beautiful and I'm sure you've had fun playing with it. I love the short, powerful cycle on these machines - no messing around in there, just gets the job done!
Congrats on the finished product, it's been fascinating to watch your progress and fabrication of parts!
Congrats on the finished product, it's been fascinating to watch your progress and fabrication of parts!
Designgeek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 865
Excellent job, dude! Including all the rest of the custom fabrication. And I like your kitchen too.
What I think would be really cool would be a glass window in the top lid on these TL dishwashers, or on the front door on the FL types. Don't know if that's practical as a modification though.
What I think would be really cool would be a glass window in the top lid on these TL dishwashers, or on the front door on the FL types. Don't know if that's practical as a modification though.
Tom,
Yes, I used an old washer drain hose for this. I removed it for these photos because it's kind of ugly. I posted a photo of it, though, last month in the "Look What Hobart Made" thread. It's probably still there if the thread is there.
Yes, I used an old washer drain hose for this. I removed it for these photos because it's kind of ugly. I posted a photo of it, though, last month in the "Look What Hobart Made" thread. It's probably still there if the thread is there.
Panthera,
The hinges are pot metal, and of a similar construction as the big vented handle assembly. Obviously though the handle doesn't experience the physical stress the hinges experience.
They probably broke when someone service the machine and didn't secure the lid. If the machine is laid on its side, and the lid is unlatched, then it will fly up rapidly and can break the hinges. The service manual warns against this. It's still an issue with the new hinges, but I think they would probably bend, or damage the hinge mounts, rather than break.
The hinges are pot metal, and of a similar construction as the big vented handle assembly. Obviously though the handle doesn't experience the physical stress the hinges experience.
They probably broke when someone service the machine and didn't secure the lid. If the machine is laid on its side, and the lid is unlatched, then it will fly up rapidly and can break the hinges. The service manual warns against this. It's still an issue with the new hinges, but I think they would probably bend, or damage the hinge mounts, rather than break.
DG,
A lid window would be nice but I would only attempt to do that with a spare lid (hard to come by). Robert replaced the stock lid on his Frigidaire top loader with a sheet of plexiglass. I have thought of doing that but for the moment I'm content with the machine as is.
A lid window would be nice but I would only attempt to do that with a spare lid (hard to come by). Robert replaced the stock lid on his Frigidaire top loader with a sheet of plexiglass. I have thought of doing that but for the moment I'm content with the machine as is.
Hey Rich, wonderful restoration, thanks for sharing all your hard work! That's one of the most fun looking vintage portable dishwashers out there.
