It wouldn't surprise me if LG bought the name. They got Zenith a few years back.
The Kenmore name
- Thread starter Chetlaham
- Start date
Help Support :
they still do the hard sell at Sears...
Sears still seems to push people from BOL to MOL/TOL, and they REALLY want you to buy the extended warranty. When I purchased my LG/Kenmore TOL steam front loader, which was a discontinued clearance floor model, I was going to buy the matching dryer until I learned that I could get a "free" one due to the fact that Sears offered 50% back in rewards on clearance floor models. The BOL model would have been paid for by the points I earned on the washer. So, I opted for the venerable 29" Whirlpool-built BOL Kenmore because I'm cheap and I believe a dryer is a dryer, unlike a washer.
After turning down the extended warranty, the salesperson tried to convince me that the dryer I wanted to buy was "cheap" in not a good way. After establishing that I did not want to buy the LG/Kenmore FL dryer, she tried to get me to buy an upper-MOL Kenmore 29", where if I did, I would pay $200 out of pocket after redeeming the points versus settling for the same dryer (only with less cycles and a different control panel) for free after redeeming the points from the washer. Like I said before, a dryer is a dryer, I am not as picky like with everything else (like wanting a radiant convection range), and it just came down to a few extra dials on a different control panel. Not worth it to me.
She tried to tell me that the MOL Kenmore had more features. True, but then she went on to say that the build quality was better and that the one I wanted was a little "flimsy". I told her, politely, that these things have been produced with very little changes for what, 40-50 years, so Whirlpool surely must have "gotten it" by now and that all of the 29" top filter models are the same thing underneath (and not-so-underneath), just some have different control panels and different cycles. I clued her in on the design of the drum, the placement of the lint filter and even the door, all of was identical between the two. Told her I could swap control panels between the two in half an hour and she would never notice. A minute later, I had the stockroom guys pulling the TOL KM FL off the floor and pulling a new BOL KM dryer out of the stockroom and loading it into my truck.
When I went to Lowe's to buy my MOL Whirlpool fridge, DW, range and MH, it was as simple as saying what I wanted to buy. Saying no to the extended warranty was as easy as a simple no thanks. It was like I was getting my morning coffee.
I want to like Sears since they have great products but it seems like they are more aggressive in their selling practices. I always seem to have to participate in a mini-seminar on their credit card at checkout every time I go in to buy something. I've noticed that other stores never seem to ask you to sign up for a card, even though those stores have their own cards.
Sears still seems to push people from BOL to MOL/TOL, and they REALLY want you to buy the extended warranty. When I purchased my LG/Kenmore TOL steam front loader, which was a discontinued clearance floor model, I was going to buy the matching dryer until I learned that I could get a "free" one due to the fact that Sears offered 50% back in rewards on clearance floor models. The BOL model would have been paid for by the points I earned on the washer. So, I opted for the venerable 29" Whirlpool-built BOL Kenmore because I'm cheap and I believe a dryer is a dryer, unlike a washer.
After turning down the extended warranty, the salesperson tried to convince me that the dryer I wanted to buy was "cheap" in not a good way. After establishing that I did not want to buy the LG/Kenmore FL dryer, she tried to get me to buy an upper-MOL Kenmore 29", where if I did, I would pay $200 out of pocket after redeeming the points versus settling for the same dryer (only with less cycles and a different control panel) for free after redeeming the points from the washer. Like I said before, a dryer is a dryer, I am not as picky like with everything else (like wanting a radiant convection range), and it just came down to a few extra dials on a different control panel. Not worth it to me.
She tried to tell me that the MOL Kenmore had more features. True, but then she went on to say that the build quality was better and that the one I wanted was a little "flimsy". I told her, politely, that these things have been produced with very little changes for what, 40-50 years, so Whirlpool surely must have "gotten it" by now and that all of the 29" top filter models are the same thing underneath (and not-so-underneath), just some have different control panels and different cycles. I clued her in on the design of the drum, the placement of the lint filter and even the door, all of was identical between the two. Told her I could swap control panels between the two in half an hour and she would never notice. A minute later, I had the stockroom guys pulling the TOL KM FL off the floor and pulling a new BOL KM dryer out of the stockroom and loading it into my truck.
When I went to Lowe's to buy my MOL Whirlpool fridge, DW, range and MH, it was as simple as saying what I wanted to buy. Saying no to the extended warranty was as easy as a simple no thanks. It was like I was getting my morning coffee.
I want to like Sears since they have great products but it seems like they are more aggressive in their selling practices. I always seem to have to participate in a mini-seminar on their credit card at checkout every time I go in to buy something. I've noticed that other stores never seem to ask you to sign up for a card, even though those stores have their own cards.
It was those practices
That drove Sears into the ground. Another one was not letting you pay UNTIL you opened up a card. Which you just mentioned. I am the type of person who knows more than the rest of the store in management, the product I am buying and about a dozen other things. Not just me, but many, many others. What I say goes- and it is final. Even worse when I have to confess to the store what I am REALLY going to do with said machine. Which sometimes gets met with me being insane. Hey- you want to make money? Look at it like this: Customer is always right!
That drove Sears into the ground. Another one was not letting you pay UNTIL you opened up a card. Which you just mentioned. I am the type of person who knows more than the rest of the store in management, the product I am buying and about a dozen other things. Not just me, but many, many others. What I say goes- and it is final. Even worse when I have to confess to the store what I am REALLY going to do with said machine. Which sometimes gets met with me being insane. Hey- you want to make money? Look at it like this: Customer is always right!
Chetleham, were Kenmores really that better looking? Maybe in the 60's - early 70s but I didn't think the black "Star Wars" panels were that attractive.
Except for the Limited Edition in 1986. When painted black, the set almost said "Darth Vader, here is your laundry equipment."
Except for the Limited Edition in 1986. When painted black, the set almost said "Darth Vader, here is your laundry equipment."
The Kenmore Name
I have been saying for years that Lowes or maybe HD will buy the name, and now maybe Amazon ?
Whirlpool would likley be blocked from using the KM name, WP already had to quit the KA name on W&Ds when they bought the MT name do to having to large a market share in laundry sales.
John L.
I have been saying for years that Lowes or maybe HD will buy the name, and now maybe Amazon ?
Whirlpool would likley be blocked from using the KM name, WP already had to quit the KA name on W&Ds when they bought the MT name do to having to large a market share in laundry sales.
John L.
Better looking
IMO- YES! Whirlpool lost me with the coloring and cluttered look, the dull looking panels prior, and the 'average' look in the 80s. Kenmore stood out- the wood grain top was popular like the rest of the wood grains in the 80s- and everything just seemed more organized. Same with the 90s, just stood out more.
IMO- YES! Whirlpool lost me with the coloring and cluttered look, the dull looking panels prior, and the 'average' look in the 80s. Kenmore stood out- the wood grain top was popular like the rest of the wood grains in the 80s- and everything just seemed more organized. Same with the 90s, just stood out more.
Cluttered WP Panels
Interesting perspective. Can you provide pics of some examples you consider to be unsightly?
Interesting perspective. Can you provide pics of some examples you consider to be unsightly?
Sure, here are a few along those lines:
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...e-ii-washer-capacity-whirlpool-gold-ultim.JPG
http://www.m37auction.com/9335/443.JPG
http://www.partsreadyonline.com/images/panel3953177_3.jpg
This version really erks me for some reason:
https://pic027-bookooinc.netdna-ssl.com/s640_47849c0b240eef4537eae82604809.jpg
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...are-2-washer-belt-whirlpool-gold-ultimate.jpg
To many shades of gray:
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...t-spinning-or-agitating-whirlpool-ultimat.JPG
First the control panels look like some type of advertisement. Things like motor speed/combinations (basically mentioned twice), accuwash, ect stick out and are written in bigger, darker lettering than the actual cycles. Second it look like a trillion things are going on in the main knob- my eyes don't know where to land- and these things don't even have detents (dedicated starting marks) on them. To much dull grey as well with random "offs" in red. Over all there is nothing visually pleasant or eye catching.
Kenmore is the exact opposite. Machine descriptions down low and small- cycles in the biggest letters, wash time (super, short, ect) next in size, followed by rinse and spin with detents and finally off in the smallest and dullest font. Fewer shades of the same color.
80s models were better on the Whirlpool side, but still Kenmore was more pleasing.
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...e-ii-washer-capacity-whirlpool-gold-ultim.JPG
http://www.m37auction.com/9335/443.JPG
http://www.partsreadyonline.com/images/panel3953177_3.jpg
This version really erks me for some reason:
https://pic027-bookooinc.netdna-ssl.com/s640_47849c0b240eef4537eae82604809.jpg
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...are-2-washer-belt-whirlpool-gold-ultimate.jpg
To many shades of gray:
http://fegapod.com/wp-content/uploa...t-spinning-or-agitating-whirlpool-ultimat.JPG
First the control panels look like some type of advertisement. Things like motor speed/combinations (basically mentioned twice), accuwash, ect stick out and are written in bigger, darker lettering than the actual cycles. Second it look like a trillion things are going on in the main knob- my eyes don't know where to land- and these things don't even have detents (dedicated starting marks) on them. To much dull grey as well with random "offs" in red. Over all there is nothing visually pleasant or eye catching.
Kenmore is the exact opposite. Machine descriptions down low and small- cycles in the biggest letters, wash time (super, short, ect) next in size, followed by rinse and spin with detents and finally off in the smallest and dullest font. Fewer shades of the same color.
80s models were better on the Whirlpool side, but still Kenmore was more pleasing.
Control panel Designs
I will take the WP panels any day, I always though that MT and KM did not offer nearly enough information as what settings actually did etc.
In my forty+ years selling and servicing laundry appliances I never had a customer complain about too much information.
John L.
I will take the WP panels any day, I always though that MT and KM did not offer nearly enough information as what settings actually did etc.
In my forty+ years selling and servicing laundry appliances I never had a customer complain about too much information.
John L.
Of course, thats because people just don't buy it. Who buys something they know they will not like? If this was the other way around I know the argument will be 'remember Kenmore sold 10x what Whirlpool did so that might have been another a potential factor'
Eddie Lampert has spun off a few of the brands into Sears Brand Management LLC. What'll happen is he'll keep the retails section open long enough, through store closing that he can totally remove these assets from the retail operation. This if/when Sears closes these brands will be an independent entity that can be sold, license the name like Emerson Radio Corp. etc.
That's how Sears delivering has become "innovel" even though it still is technically owned by SHLD.
Kenmore will survive in some fashion.
That's how Sears delivering has become "innovel" even though it still is technically owned by SHLD.
Kenmore will survive in some fashion.
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;"><a name="startPOSTER_73505.18"></a></span></span>
Launderess,
You made a good point about Kenmore appliances being functionally different and/or better. Which is different from some of the Sears brands for non-appliances I was thinking of, which were more or less just re-brands.
I wonder how this actually happened inside Sears. Did they have a special group of buyers that worked with Whirlpool engineers directly? Or did Whirlpool just create additional features/designs in advance knowing that Sears would demand something to differentiate the Kenmore versions? Hard to imagine Sears employing appliance design engineers themselves, but times were different then (corporations didn't outsource everything) and Kenmore was a huge brand.
Would be interesting to know how this worked, both in their heyday and today.
Launderess,
You made a good point about Kenmore appliances being functionally different and/or better. Which is different from some of the Sears brands for non-appliances I was thinking of, which were more or less just re-brands.
I wonder how this actually happened inside Sears. Did they have a special group of buyers that worked with Whirlpool engineers directly? Or did Whirlpool just create additional features/designs in advance knowing that Sears would demand something to differentiate the Kenmore versions? Hard to imagine Sears employing appliance design engineers themselves, but times were different then (corporations didn't outsource everything) and Kenmore was a huge brand.
Would be interesting to know how this worked, both in their heyday and today.
Iowabear, I applied to a few Sears Engineering jobs several years ago. And got good advice not to pursue them.
Sears did have something of an internal engineering and design dept that handled the tools and appliances etc.
I don’t think it was as deep as WP designing the whole product, but if I remember the job descriptions, they were on par with regular engineering jobs that required CAD and mechanical, technical experience while integrating with electrical components. As with my current job and suppliers, it was probably similar with lots of engineering integration between Sears and whirlpool or other suppliers, such as different mechanisms and buttons and layouts and displays and metallurgical treatments and surface finishes etc. many things that were integral to the customer facing experience of the products at least, I would surmise. With the rest of the product engineering heavily donated from the supplier.
Sears did have something of an internal engineering and design dept that handled the tools and appliances etc.
I don’t think it was as deep as WP designing the whole product, but if I remember the job descriptions, they were on par with regular engineering jobs that required CAD and mechanical, technical experience while integrating with electrical components. As with my current job and suppliers, it was probably similar with lots of engineering integration between Sears and whirlpool or other suppliers, such as different mechanisms and buttons and layouts and displays and metallurgical treatments and surface finishes etc. many things that were integral to the customer facing experience of the products at least, I would surmise. With the rest of the product engineering heavily donated from the supplier.
John,
Thank you for your reply. Fascinating. It must have taken a lot of coordination with Whirlpool, and must have been very time consuming, especially before design software and Internet communication.
So to Launderess's other point, they really were their own product and manufactured accordingly.
It's just hard to imagine a corporation justifying all that extra expense today, but it obviously served Sears well for a long time. Will be interesting to watch what the next owner of "Kenmore" does.
Thank you for your reply. Fascinating. It must have taken a lot of coordination with Whirlpool, and must have been very time consuming, especially before design software and Internet communication.
So to Launderess's other point, they really were their own product and manufactured accordingly.
It's just hard to imagine a corporation justifying all that extra expense today, but it obviously served Sears well for a long time. Will be interesting to watch what the next owner of "Kenmore" does.
