The new EU dryer energy label is rolling out

[henene4]

As of today, you are allowed to display the new label.
There is a 14 day period for everybody to switch over the displays, so it'll take a few days for it to show up everywhere.
Only exception is for the edge case that the manufacturer of an appliance has gone out of business and can't re-supply the new label for old stock. In that case those specific appliances can be sold for up to 9 months with only the old label.

Many things are as expected.
Condenser dryers are now rated G.
Many heat pump dryers are either D or C. Many are condensation class D now - the worst class possible.
A few A dryers are available - Samsung and AEG/ELux. But I think only the ELux design is quadruple A.
A few more Bs are available - naming the VZug TOL dryer explicitly as that is only B in many ratings despite being that expensive.


A few things are unexpected.
The approximate mapping of old to new is that A++ is now D, A+++ is C, -10% is B and -25% is A.
However, as the testing is somewhat different, that isn't the case every time.
BSH's TOL dryer used to be -10% - and now is "only" C, makeing BSH one of the few brand name manufacturers with no B rated dryer at the start.
LGs recent US size DD dryer was A+++ and now is only D.

It also shows that you can build competitive appliances without changing the base design.
But if you want to get up there, you do need some design changes. Samsung appears to only have changed the compressor and programming, but does not get to the quadruple A.
ELux had to redesign the entire machine base and switch around air flow components to get there.



So yeah, just a small summary for that change.
Especially with dryers, the energy label has much more connection to real life usage than with DWs or washers, so I think that's a welcome change.

 

[logixx]

I updated the labels on the dryers I have on display yesterday (with the old labels stuck into the user manual that's in the drum).

As you'd expect, the difference isn't huge between A and C, especially considering that these A models retail for almost 1200 Euros - almost twice as much as the most popular C dryers.

I did a very simple calculation for my coworkers and customers, where the outcome was that it would take 55 years to recoup the purchase cost through energy savings. I just had to because I already know I'll have customers whining about dryers suddenly be rated C (as if they'd use more power than before) so I'll shut their argumentation right down.

Ah yes, retail.

Besides, according to eprel website, there's also this Hisense. https://at.hisense.com/produkte/was...I104BWAB-DH5I104BWAB-HSN/p/000000000020015578

 

[mrstickball]

There are huge energy savings available on heat pump vs. vented tumble dryers. At least in America. One issue we have here is HVAC having to do replacement or makeup conditioned air in the room or house that has the air sucked out and vented outside. If you measure it properly, about 40-50% of whatever electricity you use to run the tumble cycle, ends up costing your HVAC system (really, its a 1:1 ratio but the COP of air conditioning/heaters are typically a lot better than resistive heat tumble dryers).

But phasing them out. Yuck. Like Logixx said, the problem is the payoff period against some dryers is abysmal, much less what kind of reduction in lifespan you may get from running inverters vs. traditional controls, and such.

 

[launderess]

There are whole long periods of year when one isn't using central heating nor air conditioning. As such there isn't any "loss" of mechanically heated or cooled air by using vented clothes dryer.

Furthermore where possible most will use natural gas for clothes dryers over electricity. Unless blessed living in an area of USA with low rates otherwise electricity rates often are dear. This makes natural gas a better option.

 

[henene4]

Natural gas is currently an option - but in about 25 years it just won't be - or shouldn't be at least.
Electricity can be produced emissions free - both locally and through the supply chain - and producing combustion fuels through electro-chemical ways just for such applications isn't really viable and probably will never be.


Replacing a working appliance with a new one for energy savings is rarely makes sense financially or ecologically.
But, at replacement, it often is - at least ecologically.
And even financially: The EU basically showed how it goes. 25 years ago HP dryers were expensive and only made sense in certain situations. Now, heat pump dryers are as cheap as any normal dryer ever was, uses half the electricity and are often just about as fast.
I'm willing to bet that - given LGs HP dryer offering is often just about the price of the next model up vented version - that the US will go the same way.



On the topic of 55 years to recoup:
I know that with customers and sales, you really gotta dumb it down to the extreme.
But I think the story is somewhat more nuanced.
The current A class dryers are all TOL machines - of course you can get a C class dryer for half the price or less, but it's not quite the same.
Add to that that usage profile still plays a huge role that can drastically change.
300€ difference works out to about 900kWh you would have to save to break even - on AEGs B vs A class dryers that would equate to just about 7500 cycles according to the new label.
I don't think those dryers will last that long - but I know people who would dry a load a day on average, and that's just about 20 years of usage then.

But yeah - unless you want that specific dryer, C class is still probably the best to go for.

 

[logixx]

Oh, it's certainly more nuanced. I was just comparing the most popular BSH dryers on idealo versus an AEG.

At 40 Cent/kWh and going off of 100 ECO cycles the energy labels is based on, the differnce came down to 10 Euros in energy costs. You know people will lose their minds, seeing dryers being only rated C now, fearing they'll have to sell their house, children, and body to afford running a dryer now. Just like with washers, where you can tell them all day long how the energy label really works - yet they (mostly) wouldn't buy a non-A washer even if their life depended on it.

 

[henene4]

It's really sad TBH that no matter what tech you talk about in retail - half of your customers couldn't even tell you a basic thing about they use it.

They can't answer you "About how often does your dryer run in week" or "what kind of laundry do you typically dry" - and then complain that you can't give proper help choosing a good dryer for them.

 

[maytag85]

There are huge energy savings available on heat pump vs. vented tumble dryers. At least in America. One issue we have here is HVAC having to do replacement or makeup conditioned air in the room or house that has the air sucked out and vented outside. If you measure it properly, about 40-50% of whatever electricity you use to run the tumble cycle, ends up costing your HVAC system (really, its a 1:1 ratio but the COP of air conditioning/heaters are typically a lot better than resistive heat tumble dryers).

But phasing them out. Yuck. Like Logixx said, the problem is the payoff period against some dryers is abysmal, much less what kind of reduction in lifespan you may get from running inverters vs. traditional controls, and such.

Heat pump dryers may be a lot more efficient, but the thing that’s not mentioned in the fine print is the maintenance and repairs that will be needed eventually.

Efficiency is all fun and games until it nickels and dimes one’ in maintenance and repairs which completely circumvents and negates everything.

 

[hvtech42]

The EU did need to do something about their grading systems, since the amount of pluses being added onto the A was getting silly. The A-F scale should be calibrated to the range of appliances that are actually on the market.

That said, the new labels seem to go too far in the opposite direction - looks like only a small minority of appliances meet the A or B standards, which then makes "C" rated appliances seem much worse than they are. Personally when I see a "C" grade I think poor or below average, whereas it seems like the "C" appliances in the new rating system tend to be average or even above average in energy usage. Seems like it can't hurt to maybe keep an "A+" category for those small minority of appliances that go way above and beyond.

 

[hvtech42]

Heat pump dryers may be a lot more efficient, but the thing that’s not mentioned in the fine print is the maintenance and repairs that will be needed eventually.

Efficiency is all fun and games until it nickels and dimes one’ in maintenance and repairs which completely circumvents and negates everything.

Well in theory, heat pump dryers should be able to last a long time. We already know refrigerators are capable of lasting 20+ years without much maintenance. And a heat pump dryer isn't really anything more complex than that, and has a lot less runtime.

That said, the devil in the details. We've seen over the years with LED light bulbs, electronic controls in appliances, etc. that things which theoretically should be very reliable, too often aren't due to design flaws. And it's true the repair costs will certainly be higher than a conventional dryer when they do break, no matter how reliable they are.

Heat pump dryers clearly are the way of the future, and I'm sure I'll have one someday, but for now I'm not really interested in being the guinea pig here - even though I could really benefit, as electricity rates in my state are comparable to EU levels. I've seen way too many cases of new appliances being rushed to market without thorough enough testing. The EU is well ahead us of the adoption curve here, partly because energy is more expensive there on average and partly because heat pumps aren't really a reduction in drying speed for them. Hopefully we can learn from their experiences in developing HP dryers for the US market.

 

[logixx]

Maintenance on a heat-pump dryer = cleaning the filter and empty the water tank (if the dryer doesn't drain the water out).

No need for annual vent cleanings (DIY or professionally) to avoid a potential dryer fire.

Here's the filter housing and the evaporator of my dryer after 1264 operating hours (as best as I could take the picture).

 

[logixx]

@hvtech42 Currently, 2% of the dryers listed on the eprel website are labeled A, while 44% are labeled C - so yes, only a very small percentage. There'll be more very efficient dryers eventually, I'm sure.

Initially, there were few washers that would get an A for energy use. Now, there are washers that surpass the A rating by 60% (although the current "improved" label cannot distinguish between "just A" and "x% better than A" like the old label. Of course, these very high efficiency cycles wash at the same temp as US "Normal" cycles when set to warm -> almost cold.

 

[henene4]

If reliability would be such a huge issue, I think there would be more of an outcry in the EU.
Keep in mind that soon effectively they will be the only option out there.

And I've done the math before on here - the operating time a new HP dryer needs to be more affordable and better for the environment is at a level where if your appliances fails in that time, it's probably still in warranty.
At least in the EU.



And not many reaching A class is the idea.
Manufacturers improve to the point the customer wants, the customer wants A, so they design towards A.

My fridge was A+++, then C.
Then there were a few years where like 10 A class fridges existed, all at 1000€ or more.
And now, there are at least a few dozen models down to pretty reasonable "upper mid range" prices.
Heck, even Side-by-sides are available in A now.


And while washer energy labels kind of fail at their purpose to a point (so do TV labels IMO), stuff like dryers and refrigeration really work.
Most dryers use about the same per time regardless of what cycle you use, how you load it, what you set it to. Same goes with fridges to an extent.
So, just putting an Eco cycle on their for rating works. Even if you select a more thorough drying cycle that might use more time - a dryer 10% efficient will probably be 10% more efficient still, even on the non-rating cycle.

With washers (and TVs), the Eco settings can just be pretty far from daily operation.
Same for many DWs.
But still - it gives customers and manufacturers at least the aim to design new technology to give them an edge.
I mean, that's how heat pumps got into washers, Zeolite drying was invented and stuff like Mieles PowerWash.

 

[logixx]

Yes, consumer demand (aka their money) will force manufacturers to design even more efficient appliances. Let's not forget that doing laundry is a terrible, terrible chore... It must use as little resources as possible.

Luckily for manufacturers of TVs, which are fun electronics, where there's seemingly no demand for less energy use. Thus 97% out of almost 16,000 listed TV on the eprel site are E, F and G rated. Same goes for other "fun" electronics like GPUs that draw as much power as my freaking clothes dryer. But I digress...

 

[me]

I've been wanting to get one since they first appeared, but have waited for prices to fall and designs to improve enough, to be worthwhile for my low usage.

The main issues I've read people complaining about in deals forums and reviews etc is clogged heat exchangers (and the difficulty cleaning them) and slow drying, also people without the space in their kitchen, complaining that they take forever to dry in unheated outbuildings. Also seen a few where the refrigerant has probably leaked, or the compressor failed, those probably unsurprisingly, are nearly always very low end makes; I mean, 30-40 years is nothing for a reasonable quality fridge or freezers.

Someone cleaning out the lint from an older model they've got hold of.



This repair guy, is very negative about the serviceability and drying times. I've spoken to an owner of a recent model AEG, who reckoned it didn't take any longer than his old condenser dryer.



When I finally get around to buying one, I'll be looking for one with self cleaning heat exchanger and a foam filter to keep the lint out, in addition the the usual mesh door filter, and buying a decent brand, like AEG or Bosch perhaps.

 

[hvtech42]

And not many reaching A class is the idea.
Manufacturers improve to the point the customer wants, the customer wants A, so they design towards A.

That's all fair enough. But if, as Alex said, the differences of an A model over a C are so minimal that it takes 50+ years to pay back - even at German electricity prices - that seems kind of misleading for the consumer.

I really like the EU energy labels for presenting a lot of information in a standardized format. But in terms of the actual energy consumption part, I almost wonder if the US labels don't have it right by just showing a range of everything on the market and a cost estimate rather than splitting it into grades.

That way if a manufacturer wants to make something much more efficient than the rest of the market - they can get credit for that by "redefining" the range and making other products look bad. But also consumers won't be pressured to spend 3x on something that won't actually use much less. And there's no need to worry about changing the cutoffs for grades over time as appliances get more efficient.