The Physics of the Spin Speed

[lederstiefel1]

European dryers

The thing is that in Europe normally circuits are limited to 20 Amp for normal household use. So to avoid unnecessary costs for an installation of a higher amp outlet which is usually then linked to a higher voltage, namely 400V, and/or an extra three phase rotary current, they cut down the heaters to not more than 3,000W (Miele) or less plus another 500W for fan and motor plus electronic altogether.
We had once 220V/50Hz in Germany but switched to 230V/50Hz some 15/20 years ago! Also there is (in the 50s and 60s very popular) three phase rotary current available for housholds: 380V/50Hz once and 400V/50Hz today. This was very often used in the time when people used to wash with tub-washers in the laundry-rooms in the basements, because of the boiling programmes in these machines, which would have taken ages to heat up otherwise. These machines had often 4.5KW or 6KW or even stronger heaters in them to bring the 60-100 liters of wash-water to the boil in an appropriate time. Still it is in use for hot water tanks (6KW/400V), continious water heaters (18-27KW/400V), night-storage heaters (4-8KW/400V) and even some kitchen ranges have rotary current, but these mostly with 230V.

Ralf

 

[chestermikeuk]

Dryer Times

I think there is something in the motor torque that drives the spinning basket...I`ve tested induction motors from a number of machines against certain carbon brush motors and I think there is a difference...even with the same drum diameter..

The Asko really DRIVES the drum to spin, you can feel & hear the power or torque as it pushes the revs, a lot of induction motors can do the same spin but almost balance each other out with power..Also the Unimatic, the torque and power you can feel & hear as it drives up to 1140rpm..

There is also more to just heater wattage in a tumble dryer...a few vented UK models ran only on 2kw heater because of the "High Velocity" air-flow....think windy day, no sun, washing still dries...

I think what we have been used to is always going to be an influencing factor over the desire to change to new stuff,and to adapt to the changes also takes time, the modern machines I`m using now are overall the most economical and efficient to date, the only other co-efficient required is lower electricity costs, and I cant see that happening!!!

I`ve included my test results I did for Robert, take a look, Mike

 

[toggleswitch]

~What do you mean "plug-and-play?"

In 220v lands, clothes dryers tend to plug into ANY ordinary outlet. Our electric ones require a dedicated, special heavy-duty line. They genrally tend to be smaller than what we are used to as most appliances in other lands are 24inches (60cm) wide.

In order to ger Euro 220v washers into this counntry without rewiring, they plug-in, piggy-back, into the Euro dryer. This is possible becuase Euro dyrers use only a fraction of the wattage and amerage that ours do. They therefore also take a great deal more time to dry.

The maxiumum load normally permitted yb code here is generally 80% of the wiring's capacity. On a 30a line, then 24a is the max gnerally seen and used. An American dryer uses that much amperage.

Logically then, if a Euro dryer was as powerful, a washer would not be able to share the circuit. A Euro washer and a Euro dryer can share an American 30a electric dryer circuit becaue they are each, lets say, less than 15a. (Most likely 13a or less.)

I am not saying one system is better or worse. What I am saying is that laundry machines and washing preferences evoled in part due to the respective electical systems, construcion techinques and the mentality ("culture") of the inhabitants; good, bad or otherwise.

Also I believe a great number of homes are concrete across the pond which makes running and hiding electrical lines difficult. Here we use a great deal of wood and have hollow walls. Running lines later in time is perhaps easier. Someone please enlighten me!

In this country a Euro washer with an American dryer is a good combination. An Aerican top-loader with a Euro dryer is bound to cause complaints. The dryer is smaller and relatively slow and won't deal well with less extracted water. IIRC some Euero mannies owont sell you a dryer for use with an American washer.

Wanna make big money? Sell gas appliances in Europe ion counrties that are currently being piped for natural gas as a result of a huge contract in the last few years with former USSR republics to supply gas. Large capaity, vented, quick, economical gas dryers. Come on all you Keynsians. Supply creates its own demand!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

 

[soapnsuds]

Thansk Toggle...

I wondered how my ASKO washer AND dry was able to run off the one dryer plug at the same time. You're right, the washer piggy-backs into the dryer for power, a fact I like and the main reason I purchased it over Miele, that and ASKO has a spin only option, for whatever reason Miele got ride of theirs years ago. And Miele makes you buy this box for about $200 more for plug-n-play action, as you say, to plug the washer and dryer in, then plug that into the one dryer plug. LOVE Miele (miss mine), but they subscribe to the Sony mentality when it come to accessories...

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I KNEW I should have been an appliance repairman!! MUCH more fun!!! ----James

 

[toggleswitch]

And Miele makes you buy this box for about $200 more for plu

That price is just highway robbery. You can't possbily tell me that the price is reflective of perceived European quality/engineering. Sounds like good old-fashined snobbery to me.

I'm glad I was able to clarify some things.....
BTW, by "Plug-n-play" I meant that in Europe and the UK any dryer generelly plugs into any outlet.

 

[coit]

As far as I can tell GB's change from 240 to 230 volts is just theoretical acknowledgement of a european standard.
Voltage varies depending on how close to a transformer your house is.
In Australia it is 240 volts but I measure 250 volts RMS at my powerpoints whereas a mate of mine measures less than 230 at his.
So an audio amp will sound louder at my place.
Paul

 

[toggleswitch]

Ditto here.

On Long Island the voltage is nearer the higher end in general, and I am the first house "off" the tranformer....

My cookers' (I have more than one) electrical heat switches for the surface elements are constantly burning out and arcing due to the (excessive) voltage.

On the positive side, my central air-conditioner will still run nicely during a summer brown-out and will be one of the last to shut down during excessive power draw on the electrical grid during a major heat wave.

[Due to chinese-made room air-conditioners at <$100 EVERYBODY who could not afford A/C previously now has at least one, and the grid is NOT happy.]

 

[sudsmaster]

The actual physics of it

Turns out the rpm's are a much larger influence on G force than the drum diameter. I'll have to chase down the formulae again, but as I recall the G's increase linearly with drum diameter, whereas they increase as a square of the rpm's.

I do know that the Neptune 7500/6500 at 1000 rpm (top speed) geneates about 300 g's.

Other factors influenced water extraction may be the drum design. Specifcally, the inner surfac etne the size ang placement of the holes. I believe Miele claims its honeycomb drum, despite have a smaller overall hole ares, extracts water better than previous drum designs. It's also possible that a solid drum top loader extracts more water and more gently than an equivalent perforated drum top loader.

 

[sudsmaster]

G Force Formula Unmasked

For a washer, the G-force formula is:

RPM*RPM*Diameter/70,500

For the Neptune, that's:

1000*1000*21.175/70,500 = 300.35 G's.

If we were to increase the drum diamter by 10%, then the G's would be about 330. If we increase the RPM's by 10%, but leave the drum diameter alone, then the G's would be about 363 G's.

 

[toggleswitch]

Diameter in inches?

 

[Cybrvanr]

I am suprised nobody has mentioned another thing that can come into play, if only sightly. Has anyone ever noticed the wind that comes off of a Top Loader while it's in a good spin cycle? I imagine the air currents that develop while in the spin cycle also contribute to a little bit of drying too. After all, you are moving the clothing at a rather high velocity, so it would be like hanging a shirt out a car window while traveling down the highway.