The Pre-Rinser's Hypocrisy...

[washer111]

Was reading about this topic tonight after a small squabble with someone about it...

So plenty of people claim that "If you don't pre-rinse, it clogs up your dishwasher."

However, if you DO pre-rinse, doesn't all of this waste food (esp. solidified fats) congeal in the pipes of your house, with no hot water, enzymes or soaps to take care of it?

So it boils down to:
- Trying in futility to clean your houses' pipes, either with harmful chemicals or an expensive plumber.
Or:
- Not pre-rinsing, and allowing the temperature, soap/detergent and enzymatic action of the detergent to break down food-stuffs into 'stuffs' that cannot clog and congeal in your drains.

Just wanted to share this thought with the good folks of AW, and the wider world, who might see their shortsightedness in this*.

If the DW doesn't clean, stop using it and find a cheap, good model on Craigslist or something.

*Note: Those living in buildings with vermin problems beyond their control are exempted

 

[dustin92]

Agreed completely- I don't pre rinse at all (except pancake batter). I'd rather clean out the dishwasher than have to tear into the plumbing. I do occasionally have to clean out the spray arms in our dishwasher (Maytag Jetclean) because the tiny holes clog with particles, but it is usually a 10 minute or less job- unscrew retaining nut from lower arm and remove, flush under running water, replace, pop top shower arm out, flush with running water, replace. I need to check out the filter soon (it is a self cleaning filter system, but the spray arm that cleans it tends to get somewhat blocked). That is about a 15 minute job- still better than tearing into the drains. Dishes come out spotless and sanitized every time.

 

[washman]

Thus is the result

of draconian water useage guidelines. Sorry folks 2 gallons of water for an entire load is not going to disappate the food sludge from your DW. It will stay stuck in the unit itself or collect in the drain lines in your home.

Same thing with the 1.28 gal toilets. Sure they save water. But those savings are more than eaten up when you have your lines snaked to remove the waste that did not flush into the sewer.

Time to renounce these ill conceived water regulations and get back to basic common sense.

 

[mattl]

Disagree.  In the 6 or 7 years with a low flow toilet I've had zero, 0, issues.  If you get a properly designed unit it will work well.  If you buy the $99 special at HD you get what you pay for.  Europe had used low volume dishwashers for for years and I don’t see many if any complaints from the members who post from that area.  In fact many Meile and other European manufactures products are well regarded.

 

As for pre rinsing, I mostly don’t do it.  If a dish or bowl is really cruddy I will, but I just scrape off any left over food into the disposal and put the dish in the DW.   My big issue is lemon seeds, I use a lot of lemons - in my drinks too, and somehow the seeds end up in the wash arm.  Like Dustin I do clean the arms from time to time, but as of late I'm a bit more careful about the seeds.  My GE is about 8-10 years old and I love it.  No matter what I throw at it it cleans it perfectly.  I will keep it running as long as I possibly can but if I can't I will have no reservations about replacing it with one that uses less water.  However I will do the research and not buy the cheapest unit I can find.

 

[travis]

I don't think water conservation has one answer for everyone.  My main bathroom is on the second floor.  Regardless, of the performance of the low-flow toilet, my waste hasn't made it out of the house with one flush.  It has to travel down twenty feet and across the room ten feet.  I am the only person living there.  I can't rely on someone else using the toilet to push my waste outside.  You do need a certain amount of water flowing through your pipes to keep things cleared.

 

Fear not, I am about to install an old 4.5 gallon toilet.  I promise to be more conservative in flushing it though!

 

[wayupnorth]

There is 95% more water than this state could ever use and wished we could share it more with those that need it. I still pre rinse in HOT water before loading in the d/w. My 20 year old toilet is going away as it is one of the first low flow models but not flushing worth, figure out the ending.

 

[washer111]

Speaking of toilets, the low-flow options here are a mixed bag, even from the same manufacturer. 

 

On some models, one has to *physically* hold down either "half flush" or "full flush" for the darned thing to work, as the mechanism isn't setup or designed in order to stay opened until the flush is complete. On these, it takes a full-flush to get anything to move. 

 

The better models do work, although they don't clear out the mess quite so easily. 

 

Our 1980's vintage Armitage Shanks toilets were recently refitted with a dual-flush system. Full flush uses about 3.2 US Gallons of water, and half is about half that. Works like a treat, each and every time*

 

*Although the drain to the water softener outdoors on the main run from the bathrooms 'somehow' manages to catch some sewerage from time to time. There is no blockage, so we assume there is an issue with the scupper in there. Thankfully, the softener regenerates often enough for this to be a non-issue. 

After a major blockage (tree roots, someone planted a garden on the drain years before we moved in) last year, the plumbers seemed to have cleared whatever was causing so much to return to this drain, but not physically block and backup... 

 

Getting back on topic, the proof that un-rinsed dishes don't clog a dishwasher is in our drains; The kitchen sink and dishwasher have their own runs to the main drain outside (an inspection point).

Taking the open-plastic cover off this, the dishwasher side is clean, and has actually bleached the PVC piping where water contacts. The side from the kitchen sink has all manner of congealed garbage. Guess there is something to be said of hot water, enzymes and a highly alkaline/caustic detergent coming into contact with the pipes at the minimum, 3-4 times a week. 

 

[mattl]

Travis, that might be true if the toilet existed on a proprietary line, but the sink, shower and what ever else you have plumbed into the drainage system all flow through the same line.  Waste may not be completely removed after one flush if you have a long line but it will be help along and gone soon enough.  gravity also helps, all drain lines have a pitch so water/waste flows down and out.

 

Put the 4 gallon toilet in if it makes you feel better, but unless you have some really bad plumbing it's not going to make that much difference.

 

[arbilab]

I've had a couple low-flows work fine. I've also used a couple that don't suck worth (obvious).

'Old' plumbing grades assumed 'lots' of water. If one puts a LF into one of those systems, your drainage may vary. Or stop altogether.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Back to topic:

I seem to just wing it! My dishwasher gets rid o' everything WITHOUT pre-washing, pre-rinsing, pre-ANYTHING!!!!

Hate to think of what would happen if my Maytag were to ever break down in the middle of washing, or need any kind of repairing, if it works so superbly well...!

-- Dave

 

[travis]

I have a new plumbing in an old house. I just am highly skeptical that the toilet usage that occurs at midnight will get washed away by the shower that I take at 10am. I rarely cook or use my kitchen for its intended purpose. I highly doubt filling the cat water bowl is going to break anything loose in the plumbing down below.

The only point I'm trying to make is that there's not a one-size-fits-all solution. Everything is geared to the scale of the family which I have none. My water bill is geared in three tiers. No matter what I do I'm in the bottom tier. I guess I'm being environmentally friendly after all.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Oh, tha viromint! Well, ecologically I hope my machine ranks in good standing on the Yellow Card Energy Guide Standard; I think it earned an Energy Star; my fridge even has one...!

And as for my plummin', I just gotta hope I don't get any drainage disasters...!

-- Dave

 

[peterh770]

Most dishwasher now have sensors in them. If you put pre-rinsed dishes in, the machine may shut down quicker than it should. OTOH, the dirtier the dishes, the longer the dw will run, and will use more water. This is especially true of WP and KA dws. Friends of mine with newer WP and KA's are amazed that they got cleaner dishes out of the machine when they stopped pre-rinsing...
.
Adding whatever "hi-temp wash" option also increased performance significantly...

 

[askolover]

I don't pre-rinse unless the DW was just ran and it will sit for a few days and may smell...like cereal bowls and milk. I still catch Tony using a brush occasionally for a prerinse...and that really gripes my butt. That Maytag can handle it and when it dies, the KUDI23 will too.

Other topic....installed a Champion toilet about 3 years ago absolutely NO problems whatsoever. Haven't taken the plunger out of the closet since...matter of fact, I need to just remove it to the shed. Prior to the Champion, had to plunge all the time!