the stupid and the Maytag jet clean dishwasher part 2

[combo52]

Reverse rack, Maytag dishwashers

We’re an interesting bit of dishwasher, history, but it was a failed design. In the end they were playing with difficult to repair design and reliability problems from the beginning, they were revised to a belt drive design, which made repairs much easier, but did not improve reliability much.

By the time, the one which is the subject of this thread was made, the reliability had improved a lot, but the biggest single problem with this design is consumers did not like them, and Maytag could not make serious inroads into sales of dishwashers. People just didn’t like the awkward loading and the lack of capacity. It also really hurt them that they did not have an upper wash arm under the top rack where it belonged with a large item was placed in the lower rack items above. It did not get clean.

Maytag ditched the whole design all at once To go to a more user friendly, more reliable design, dishwasher and sales took off within two years Maytag dishwasher sales had more than doubled.

Hi Dan, your friend who had a whirlpool dishwasher without an Upper wash arm, that machine would’ve been made in the 70s whirlpool didn’t make any standard dishwashers. Without a second arm in the 80s they did come out with a real basic machine in the early 90s that had a pop-up tower like GE machines, and it had the same problem GE machines had it would not washing the corners of the upper rack.

Hi Barry, there’s just simply no excuse for the way you react to things, you can’t always have things the way you like them by making up stuff.

John

 

[qsd-dan]

"difficult to repair design and reliability problems"

My family had one from 1990-2011, not one single repair. The belt drive models would need a belt and silicone grease every once in a while but they were very reliable machines. The racks had a good coating on them, they never rusted on our model. The later models definitely had a shitty coating through the end in 2006. That was common on most makes through that time period. The non mechanical timer models had lots of control board issues on the post 1991 models, especially towards the end of production. I'd argue the RR models were significantly more reliable than the later ones.

"they did come out with a real basic machine in the early 90s that had a pop-up tower like GE machines"

I just looked up his address (he's moved a few times since) and the home was built in 1991. Must be a pop-up tower model, which still makes it a single wash arm dishwasher.

 

[reactor]

reverse racks

Let's see John...the reverse rack was on the market for well over tenty years, I would say that indicates a very successful design and a miney-maker for Maytag.

Recall they held more dishes than the other brands and were almost always in the top eschlon of Consumer Reports ratings, even at times beating our Whirlpool and Kitchen-Aid.

Not only are CU reviews exemplary for the Reverse Rack, but the general reviews from our members are as well. I've seen several members state, "They are the best dishwasher ever made." Of course that is a qualitative comment, but it shows the
How highly the reverse racks are thought of. Our members are more knowledgeable than the general public and I trust their perceptions and CU's as my own experiene. Much more than your emotionally tainted comments born out of your jealousy of anyone giving favorable comments to a machine that is not a Whirlpool product. Good grief grow up and some emotional maturation, John, it's only a dishwasher.

I like Whirlpool, Maytag, GE and even some others brands as each have something to bring to the table. Many have qualities superior to Whirlpool. Get over it. That doesn't denigrate Whirlpool. Someone that has a neurosis over a machine/brand/dishwasher really should seek some help. I don't say that in unkindness, but concern.

As far as your outright lie about GE tower washes not cleaning in the corners, that is contemptible for your to disrespect the other members in this group with your falsification. In sixty years of tower wash GE's, Consumers Union would have spotted and commented on something as serious as you allegation. Very many of our group members have had or do have GE tower wash dishwasher, and if every tower wash didn't clean in the corners in the upper rack...it would be known and talked about. You are lying to the wrong group of people.

You may not respect me, and that is fine, but I do wish you would respect the other members and the quit ruining others' experience with your lies/exaggerations/untrue generalization and your denigrating remarks toward their opinions.

 

[countryguy]

A house my partner and I purchased in 1990 had a WU700 model Maytag. I loved that dishwasher. The reverse loading design was great! It always got everything clean and in a maximum of 90 minutes on the Heavy Duty cycle and 67 minutes on the Short cycle. The regular cycle was 75 minutes. It had the centre spray tower for cleaning the upper rack as well as the top arm for spraying downwards. When I bought my current house in '91, on the day I got possession I had a WU700 Maytag installed. I used it for almost 20 years with no problems. It was loud but it cleaned well.

Gary

 

[tomturbomatic]

When Consumer magazines rated dishwashers, they never loaded the bottom rack with bowls and pots and pans blocking water to the upper rack before testing the cleaning ability. Whirlpool and 18 series and up KitchenAids never were noted for the added loading flexibility and cleaning performance afforded by the wash arm under the upper rack, nor were the D&M machines and others that had full coverage supplemental water sources for the upper rack. While the reverse rack Maytags advertised that the machines could hold an 11 inch plact in either rack, what they could never state is that the racks could be adjusted to hold a 12 inch plate in either rack like some other machines. I had a chance to have a Maytag Reverse Rack for my own use, but I measured to see if my Rubbermaid one gallon pitchers for iced tea would fit in the machine and they did not. I was disappointed because I knew that those wash arms with the itty bitty holes made feasible because of the fine filtration washed really well. Hans is enjoying it now. I have a Maytag DWC 4910 that is so new that it still has the new dishwasher fragrance inside, but it does not hold the items in my typical loads. Now Reactor, run out and measure the Reverse Rack machine to try to prove me wrong.

I did not realize that all of the sturm und drang you were raising with me was because of my relationship of over 40 years with the Brothers Lefever until you cautioned me about becoming a lackey of John. You will never have lackeys or associates because you have little truth to offer and a poisonous personality to boot. You attack John because he corrects errors that you post. You assumed that my posting was because of what John posted, a classic fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc when I had not read his post before drafting my post about water temperatures and detergent use.

 

[Chetlaham]

I honestly believe the reverse rack design may ultimately have been abandoned because people didn't know you literally had to place cups on the bottom rack and plates on the top rack. I've seen pics and in person where people would try and put plates in the bottom tins and a bowls, cups and baking dishes in the top rack.  All of the pics on Google of Maytag reverse rack loading are from this site which of course would show the correct way of doing it. But I think people didn't know that pre-internet when shopping or finding a reverse rack in their new home. 

 

[tomturbomatic]

There was a movie in 1963 titled the Courtship of Eddie's Father. Glen Ford played the widowed father and Ron Howard, at age 9, played the son. They had a New York apartment with a Frigidaire-equipped kitchen. The DW was the spray tube model of the early 60s. The maid carefully loaded plates in the upper rack. Four filled it.

 

[reactor]

reverse rack

What are you mumbling in and on about, Tom? Why are you talking about second wash arms and plate sizes? That has nothing to do with the past conversation d. If you are trying to say. Reverse racks were not tested with pans in the lower rack, so??? Why would it matter? It utilized a wash arm for washing the upper rack. It handles pots and pans equally well in both racks.

Yes, I have a reverse rack now and have had several in the past, I know exactly what they can hold, ha. They do hold more than other dishwashers of the same era. Many of our members have commented on that as well. What's all this about your Tubberware pitcher? I am sorry if it did not fit in your reverse rack. What's the point? Are you saying Maytag engineers should have consulted you about your Rubbermaid pitcher before they designed their dishwashers? Dishwasher capacity is not rated by Tupperware pitchers. The only things I have that don't fit my reverse rack are large cookie sheets. They didn't fit in my vintage KA either. That's life. I am not disputing any of your measurements. For two reasons, I believe you, and it has nothing to do with what we have been talking about.

You have historically always jumped in when John and I had a dispute as if he was capable of handling the situation. Others have noticed you seem to be his little twin and seem to back up everything he says even his fabrications. I really don't need to be telling you this because you know it and so does everyone else.

If your last post was not done in defense of John, then I say that's great as plenty of your others are.

John brings on his own "attacks" not only from me, but others. He apparently seems to think he is the indisputable "king" of the site and can't handle being corrected when he lies or exaggerates based on his biases. People get tired of it. There are many people on this site who have superior knowledge and abilities than John. John has a lot of experiences but they are often overshadowed by his exaggerations and continual global generalizations that simply are not true. He is continually negative about any appliances or brands that he doesn't like and he continually attacks people if they say something against one of his favorites.

If you dare bruise his ego by complimenting an appliance that is not one of his favorites (as in Whirlpool, usually) his ego gets bruised and and he denigrates that person's comments.

I don't dislike John as a person, nor do I dislike you. I actually learn a lot from both of you. I do dislike members who are disrespectful of others and who continually be negative and argumentative for no other purpose than ego or trying to show superiority. You have one of the lowest emotional maturation levels of anyone one this site and are child-like in your thought processes. You view the world through biased generations and globalizations, instead of through reality. You view the world through biased colored glasses, as they say. So you are going to see things the way you want to and interpret them in a way that is consistent with those internal biased. You and John share that trait but he is a more emotionally mature person than you are, at least in some ways.

OK, have we insulted each other enough, or do you want another round?

This is not what this site is about. Way too often, I see opinions being represented as facts, when they they are not. That is John's number one speciality. If see people denigrating members, hurting them, lying or insulting others or when I see self-absorbed people using this site for nothing but ego building, yes I sometimes step in and say something. Not nearly as often as I should. Everyone should be cognizant of counterproductive behavior and step in.

We are here to share, learn and help each other. I hate to see people have their posts shot down because someone thinks they are the only aone allowed to have an opinion or their opinion is the only right one.

I realize it's difficult when we have so many varied personalities, certainly there are bound to be some conflicts. Emotional baggage, egos and insecurities should be checked at the door, however, so we can share and learn and do what this site is intended for...enjoying and maintaining our vintage appliances.

[this post was last edited: 4/25/2024-00:47]

 

[Chetlaham]

Sometimes I wonder if John and Tom are the same person. Their posting style and defense (of each other) are too uncanny. 

 

[neptunebob]

Actually

I think it is just a matter of some guys here need more fiber in their diet. It's important when you are older. I know I myself get cranky when I don't get enough fiber.

Back to the dishwashers, I think even low priced D&M manufactured, crappy Kenmores we had heating the water the whole wash period. Yes they were noisy, did not last long, rusty, and needed repairs but they did clean the dishes.

 

[Chetlaham]

Standard tub GE dishwashers made between 1983 and 2022 got the water the hottest. With 140-150*F water inlet it was possible to get water above 180*F as the heater ran continuously even after the temperature sensing portion of the main wash satisfied. Total heater run times on some GE dishwashers exceeds 45 minutes.

 

Whirlpool and others would shut the heater down after the thermal hold or only run it for a short time. The cycle and wiring was such that going above 140-150 was unlikely.

 

 

The very hot water did not damage the racks, machine or dishes. The only thing it did do was cause the yellow sump boots (not the black ones from what I've seen) to deteriorate after 25-30 years daily use.

 

Personally if everyone was like me all dishwasher would aim for 180*F water in the main wash. Get a fixed 30-45 minute main wash and run a 550-800 watt heater the whole time.