The use of the Rinse and Hold cycle and the vintage dishwasher....

[turquoisedude]

So, after reflecting on the comments shared plus a personal recollection of how I recalled using the Rinse and Hold cycle on that much-storied Viking top-load dishwasher of my youth, I decided it was time for 'Turquoisedude's Totally Unscientific Rinse and Hold Torture Test'!  

 

So, what I recall doing with the ol' Viking was to use the Rinse and Hold as a pre-wash (sometimes with detergent, sometimes without) to soften up the gunge on the dishes before moving on to a regular cycle.  My tests here were doing a similar test, one in the Maytag WU401 and one in the KitchenAid KDS54.  

 

The Maytag load was done last week, the KA load was done this evening.   In both cases, I tried to assemble a load of reasonably dirty dishes, glassware, and cutlery PLUS a couple of baked-and-or-dried on soils.  

 

Here's the Maytag load - it was pretty well filled to capacity.  The 'torture test' items here are the Corning pie plate and that big Corning casserole that played host to macaroni and cheese (the baking on was graciously provided by the '62 Flair).

 

 

 

[turquoisedude]

Here's what the KitchenAid got to deal with:  a less-than-full load of dishes, glasses, and cutlery.   But there were also three 'torture test items': a pan used to cook rice that has been sitting since yesterday, a pyrex baking dish that was used for a lasagne, and a glass pan used to bake a lemon chiffon cake (therefore ungreased!).  

 

The Kitchen was loaded as would be recommended by the folks at Hobart would've back in '62 - dishes on the lower rack, pots and pans on the upper rack.  

 

 

 

 

 

[turquoisedude]

On the Maytag, the Rinse and Hold was run with a dose of detergent followed by a run of the Pots and Pans cycle. So, the dishes in that machine got the following treatment: two detergent pre-washes, a pre-rinse, main wash with detergent, and a triple rinse. 
 
BTW, the detergent cup in main wash had to be manually tripped.... That's starting to get old... 

 

[turquoisedude]

For the KitchenAid load, I used Rinse and Hold with detergent, then ran a Full Cycle with detergent in the Main Wash only. The KA also gave the test load a triple-rinse.

So... we're down by one detergent pre-wash here. Let's see how THAT works.

 

[turquoisedude]

Maytag results time!

Dishes look great, glasses too. Cutlery is sparkling.

BUT that macaroni and cheese is still clinging to the Corningware casserole...
FAIL!

 

[turquoisedude]

And the KitchenAid?

The dishes, glasses and cutlery were fine.

The rice pan did great - PASS.

The lasagne pan was not perfect but could still squeak by as a PASS.

But, oy, the cake pan? Epic FAIL...

 

[turquoisedude]

So now what....

I'm kinda wondering if I should be thinking about replacement dishwashers now... I know the 'Tag is going to have to be taken out when the new floor is put in; I am not sure what should go in it's place. Maybe I should look for a KA 18 series OR perhaps the low-mileage Viking (Westinghouse) built-in may get a chance to prove itself. Somehow I don't think the '58 Spin-Tube's gonna cut it, alas!

Oh what to do??

 

[appnut]

I'd say both qualified as moderate BobLoads.  I'm surprised the rice pan did as well as it did.  A neighbor's brand new KDS16 got subjected by me to a much more intense rice sauce pan in the top rack on Heavy Soil and it failed miserably compared to similar test of our 1968 Waste King across the street.  Hence my disdain for KitchenAids--between the 1-level wash loading contraints and limitations as well as not cleaning as well as the Waste King.  I bet the corning casserole in the Maytag would have come out perfect if you'd had a model WU704 with thermal hold water heat boost during main wash. 

 

[countryguy]

What kind of detergent did you use?

 

[turquoisedude]

Modern Cascade. We are on a well out here in the woods of St-Liboire but we had a water treatment system put in before we made it to 1 month in the new house (the water was mega-hard and had an iron content). That being said, I fear the Maytag, which was in the house, has suffered from scale accumulation over its lifetime...

I'm curious to try a test with the KA but putting the gungy stuff on the bottom rack!

 

[countryguy]

I am on a well system also but the water is not hard...just suffers from a sulphur odour at times. I had a WU704 and never had a problem with it not getting everything clean...including the kind of dishes you tested it with. I've never used Cascade...always used Electrasol (now Finish). I've had a Miele for about 18 months now and I use the Miele detergent....works great. Have you cleaned the holes out on all the wash arms? The holes get easily clogged because they are so tiny to give the extra force. Try running some vinegar or lime away through the machine.

 

[delaneymeegan]

Given that I resigned from DW usage, ending with my TOL Frigidaire, back in 2002, I'm probably least qualified to comment, but.... I still love the DWs, especially if they're harvest gold. They just run better. That's probably why I resigned the Frigidaire. It was bisque.

But seriously, I remember way back.... using the R&H cycle with some dishes that had spaghetti laden dishes. It was a GE white plastic tub model from the 80s.
Want to guess what that tub looked like after the cycle?
It's like all it does is take the dirt from the dishes and spread it all over the inside of everything inside.

So just for fun, for $20, I got a Brand New GE GDF510PGD4BB. Why only $20? It got it into a fight in the warehouse and the front panel is dented.
I was surprised though, Apparently no R&H cycle.
R&H was ubiquitous. It was always included unless it was the bol.

If I keep this dw, I'll have to get some primer and h.g. or avocado spray paint.
From what I've heard these are not worth the paint.

 

[washer111]

Reply to Post #30

IIRC member 'Washman' (Ben) had a machine somewhat similar. He mentioned that it worked well enough, but needed 2-3hrs to accomplish what results it could produce. 

 

The few newer machines I've seen around in Australia still seem to have Rinse/Hold cycles. That includes our DishDrawer - although it is never used as intended, simply because its a waste of water when I know the machine will clean whatever I put into it, included burnt-on soils. 

I have used it as a Pre-Rinse or Wash immediately before starting a cycle before, mainly to "temper" the tub with the hot inlet some more. It does work well for this, although its too much manual intervention for my liking. 

 

My main concern with using Rinse and Hold as intended is that it is a detergent-free cycle. Over the longterm, especially with today's cooler washing temperatures, I would be quite concerned about the very real possibility of grease (in particular) adhering to the houses' plumbing. 

That said, in the kitchen back home in Australia, the dishwasher and kitchen sink drain separately to the inspection point outside. I can clearly see the dishwasher's drain is cleaner than the kitchen sink's side (which has black slime in it), and has even cleaned some of the PVC.

I do occasionally run some bleach through the DishDrawer, just as a cleaning precaution. 

 

[jetcone]

Paul

I think the poly screen in your Maytag might be micro clogged with calcium, its vital that all at the water get through the screen to the impellers as Maytags system depended on total water supply to keep the pressure up through the smaller holes on the impellers.

 

I'd give them a soak in CLR and then reinstall and run.

I just used my "NEW" DU476 Jenn Air on Conserva wash with a full load and got sparkling results with RnH all day before the nightly run! 

However I do have a completely rebuilt KDS-21 if you are interested - you know my number...