The vintage hi-fi find of the century

[turquoisedude]

Not THIS century, of course...  LOL  

 

Just about a week ago, a neighbour in Ogden emailed me about 'an old record player' she wanted to sell.  She said it might fit my era and sent me a couple of pictures.  I kinda hemmed and hawed at first, but I decided it was worth driving to the lake end of Ogden to see it. 

 

It was worth the drive...  I have never seen anything quite like this and when I saw the brand name, I HAD to have it... LOL

 

 

[turquoisedude]

I wish I knew more about it, but I haven't yet located a model number.   I am pretty sure the cabinet it sits in was custom-made (possibly by a home handyperson); it's screaming late 50s to me.   I have never, ever seen a GE Amplifier quite like this though.   Can anyone identify it??

 

It's not stereo for sure.  The dials are really unusual.  That far right one is a selector for input and has choices for LP and 78 rpm records, as well as an auxiliary and radio tuner input.  The loudness, bass and treble were dials I expected, but that 'level' one has me thrown for a loop....  

[this post was last edited: 7/18/2015-08:55]

 

[turquoisedude]

The record changer looks like it had been a high-end one, once upon a time.  It's a Garrard RC 88/4 C, schedule number 52750/4.   It desperately needed a new power cord and it took a little tweaking but I got it to work. 

 

[turquoisedude]

Did I mention I got it to work??  LOL

 



 

You get kind of a view of the cabinet in the video.  The amp and turntable sit in a rectangular case that could live on top of or beside the speaker cabinet.   The person who built this may have had them further apart, too - the speaker wire has a plug and connector that probably had some kind of extension cord.  

 

[turquoisedude]

BUT....

Yeah, I'll bet no one saw that coming... LOL

 

The turntable is a bit wonky, but I did manage to get it to play despite the speed control...    The settings seem to be 'off' by one setting - to play a 33 1/3 RPM record, the turntable has to be set at 45.  For 45s, it has to be at 78.  At 33, the turntable runs at 16 RPMs.   

 

Now, I don't know diddly and/or squat about vintage turntables, so I really took a chance fiddling around with this one.  But, wow, I was able to figure out what's wrong!  

 

In the first photo, you can see the rubber drive wheel that turns the metal turntable.  It is on a lever-type mechanism that moves it up or down so that it engages with a different position on the motor drive shaft.  The drive shaft has a 'tiered' unit that makes the drive wheel turn faster or slower depending on where it engages.

Therein likes the problem...  The drive shaft is just a touch too low, so when at 33 or 16, the wheel engages with the narrowest tier.  It needs to raised to get the speeds to match the settings but I am not sure how to do that.  If anyone has ever serviced one of these, I'd love to find out how.

 

Although the unit is functioning reasonably well,  I would like to use the 78 setting...  I have tons of old records that I have never been able to find in other formats.  Oy, I am such a dinosaur.... LOL 

 

 

 

[whirlcool]

The speed selector switch should raise or lower the rubber wheel (known as an idler wheel) on the cam that spins from the motor. If it doesn't raise or lower you probably have a lubrication problem, esp. if this turntable has sat for a long time unused. What happens is that the old lubes solidify and jam up the works and the turntable stops working. If you have parts that won't/hard to move, don't force them. They could break and replacements may be impossible to find.

What needs to happen is for you to go through the turntable, clean off all the old lubricants and apply new ones. Then the turntable should work like new.

 

[philr]

Congrats Paul!

 

That should be an easy fix! Is the motor mounted on rubber grommets? They possibly got flattened and the motor went down. You might be able to adjust the height of the brass stepped pulley (I think I see a screw on the left in your picture).

 

[sudsmaster]

Seems to me that cabinetry is probably of late 50's or early 60's vintage. I suspect it's stock, not home built. The machine may have been intended for an institutional setting, hence the separation of the amp/turntable from the speaker cabinet.

 

Maybe a psych ward?

 

 

[twintubdexter]

fun stuff for sure...

This ad is from 1956. Similar stuff I think. Same fun little "GE Hi Fi" logo

 

[philr]

20 watts, that's quite powerful!

 

 

 

[firedome]

i'm familiar with these...

Made in 1955/6 their Electronics Park in Syracuse NY not far from here in Bingo. That was moved to Auburn NY,. even closer by, when they created their Audio Division around 1957 and began producing component stereo units & speakers.

GE made high grade components including amps and speakers from about 1955 to 1961.
These were a considerable step above their console units. Your model is a high quality mono amp that has been installed in what looks to be a custom cabinet. They made several models over the years but this is probably a model A1-320. It was called a Convertible because it has dual chassis construction allowing the preamp (control) section to be detached from the amp chassis when not in a metal component case. The amp section with input and output transformers and output tubes can mounted separate from the preamp that is in the front panel, as shown in the ad, but may also be mounted together. As I recall this model used 2 x 6L6GC output tubes which in Push-Pull configuration will yield 18 to 25 watts. If original 6L6GCs by RCA or GE the tubes in excellent condition are worth 25 (GE) to 75 (RCA Black Plate) each alone. Any Euro or US 12ax7s in the preamp section are also very desirable. tubes.

Around 1958 GE bought out a Stereo version, one of which I bought in Queensbury a few years ago and sold just recently. Also very nice amps that will give a Fisher, Scott or Sherwood a run for the money.

The GE component audio line is not well known but a good find and this amp will produce first rate sound. Once in a while they pop up on eBay and with another it's possible to have excellemnt stereo as well! Great score Paul!!

 

[cfz2882]

nice find!

20w is a lot of power for~mid 1950s era home HiFi amp-especially since the rating is probably conservative...From the video,still sounds really nice too!

 

[firedome]

AS to speakers...

it'd be interesting to know what they are. Being a mono unit it will have 1 woofer 1 tweeter, possibly a mid-range, and a crossover, or it will have a single co-axial or even tri-axial speaker. Some speakers of this vintage are highly sought after - Altec, JBL, EV, University, Stephens, some English mfr's. This is an above average quality system and may well have been put together with custom speakers like those mentioned. It may also have GE speakers, some of which were also quite good in this time period, nothing like what was in their consoles. Growing up our next door neighbor had a TOL Fisher component system with a pr of GE speakers about the size of AR-3s. It was a really superb sounding system and I only wish I knew what model those GE speakers were.

So take the back off the unit and let us know what's in there... inquiring minds want to know!

 

[firedome]

And as for the eponymous RC88

... they made a gazillion of them, they were found in many upscale record players, and parts are easy to get. Also there's a guy who re-molds drive and idler wheels if that's required.

 

[whirlcool]

Also there's a guy who re-molds drive and idler wheels if that's required.

Who do you use?

You might be able to adjust the height of the brass stepped pulley (I think I see a screw on the left in your picture).

Personally, I wouldn't go around messing with adjustment screws on a unit this old until I was sure that all parts are moving/working as they should. A lot of people mess up their projects by too much adjusting and sometimes can never get things back right again! This turntable is suffering the effects of age, not mistreatment!

 

[arbilab]

That amp was on the level of Magnavox of similar vintage, when Magnavox was a genuine 'big deal' ($$$). Selectable phono equalization! They don't make em like that anymore. Not since 1957~58.

See above RE: speed; your motor mounts have dried/shrunk. Amazing it works at all. Garrard/Dual/Juzbout everyone used a grease that turns to glue with time. That all needs to be solvented away and replaced. OTOH, if it's working don't take it apart to re-lube it. RC88 was pretty intricate. I could take an AT6 apart in the dark, but not an 88.

 

[turquoisedude]

Wow, thanks everyone for the information and advice about the GE Amp and the Garrard turntable.  I love that ad from 1956 - now, where can I find one of those vintage chairs??  LOL

 

On Saturday night, the person who sold me the unit emailed me - she found an envelope containing manuals for the GE amplifier and the Garrard turntable!   So, it has been confirmed - the amplifier is an A1-320, 20-watt 'convertible' high-fidelity amplifier.   Oddly enough, there is an installation guide with an unused template for drilling holes for the various control knobs and pilot light.  Whoever made the cabinet was one heck of a carpenter!  

 

Here's a few photos of manual pages, including a tube list.  There is also a complete parts list which details capacitor, control, and transformer replacement part numbers.  What a score!! 

 

[turquoisedude]

And as requested,  here's what the inside of the speaker cabinet looks like, Roger!

 

There were 20 (yes 20) counter-sunk wood screws holding the rear panel in place.  Someone really put a lot of effort into building the cabinet.  

 

I am amazed that there is just one speaker in there; I would have guessed at least a 'woofer' and a 'tweeter' (based on what I read in my old 50s DIY books about hi-fi systems).  The holes on the left side of the front panel really surprised me - is that intended for lower-range sound?  

 

I was also surprised at the H F Balance control on the rear of the speaker cabinet.  Methinks this unit would be adjustable to the room it gets installed in (probably a padded one for Hubby... LOL).  I recognize the Jensen brand name - don't they still make car audio equipment?  

 

I'm thinking about just leaving the unit alone from this point on - I'm scared like hell to do any damage to the turntable while attempting to improve it.  Maybe when we get the cash from the sale of the apartment in Montreal, I may consider taking it into a vintage audio service place I know of in Montreal.   But one way or another, this unit is going to be living in the house in Ogden (I will have to find a new home for an early 60s Emerson tube stereo unit but I can handle the 'one in one out' rule for vintage audio quite well...)  Once that's done, I'll be dusting off my Bleeding Gums Murphy LPs.... LOL

 

 

[kb0nes]

Actually there are two speakers there, the tweeter is co-axially mounted in front of the woofer cone, like is often done with car speakers. Here is a link to some images of a model ST875 driver on a repair site page:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/product/OCSRP811.html

Hopefully your speaker is in better condition then the one pictured as the "before repair" unit.

The holes drilled into the baffle serve as some form of porting. They seem pretty random so if they improve or degrade the sound is open for anyone's guess. It would be neat to know the actual driver model and see if there are any vintage Jensen docs available to see what the recommended enclosure was.

The Jensen name still exists today, but I bet its only the name. About the only place I find Jensen car speakers is in a WalMart automotive department. My hunch is that it is China brand stuff with the old "known" US name plastered on it. Just like we see with Magnavox etc.

As Roger mentioned above, its likely the amp is a pretty solid unit. The speaker may do ok too if its in good shape and you don't play it side by side with a quality modern speaker... The amp probably should be serviced to change out the old electrolytic capacitors that are all but certainly past their prime by now.

 

[tolivac]

Very nice find of older Hi-fi history.Didn't know that GE made a component Hi-fi line.My Grandfather,Grandmother had a Garrard TT like the 88.Use to play it when I visted them in the summer.Grammy would say"Rex,Do you want to play the Victrola?"Why sure I will be the DJ of the day.They had a Heathkit amp and an unknown speaker in a homemade cabinet.They had mostly 78s got to like them.Don't know what happened to the set and records after they died.
The 5Y3 rectifier tube in the 6L6 amp seems small for a 20w amp.Usually you see a 5U4.5Y3's were used in a lot of PP 6V6 amps-Hi-fi and guitar.
Jensen is still with us-they appeal mostly to the Guitar amp and keyboard amps.-tube and SS.The holes drilled in that speaker panel kind of "baffle" me-crude porting?The port for the speaker baffle is usually cut to the speaker makers dimensions.Same with the cabinet."Raw" speakers usually came with blueprints or plans for the cabinet.Follow that-you should be OK.
I would pit that system against some modern crappy sounding ones anytime!There are a lot of modern systems that are not so "hi-fi"!Yes,change out the electrolytics in the amp-and in the speaker crossover,too.Even the older coax speakers had a crossover network assocoated with them-often in the tweeter control mounted on the rear panel of the speaker cabinet.Glad the system basically works.It can be fixed up.

 

[jetcone]

Can't wait to

hear the sound out of this puppy !

 

Nice looking Unit Paul, that is a score for "instant fine living© " !

 

 

[firedome]

Paul: thanks for the reveal!

As I mentioned in reply #12 it's a single speaker of co-axial design, meaning, as mentioned, the tweeter is built in. They sound great with a tube amp, as they were specifically designed to do. Given the step shaped bell over the AlNiCo magnet structure and the brilliance control, I suspect it's a Jensen 12" H-222 2 way co-ax. which has a small sectoral horn and compression driver as the tweeter unit, a very fine design, see pic. I once had a pr of '50s Jensen large floor-standing (on legs) cabinet speakers that I got with a Harman Kardon Citation I & II amp & preamp (in Newport VT of all places) that had these exact same speakers in them, and I liked them very much.

Your unit is a gorgeous time-capsule of upscale Hi-Fi just before the Stereo Revolution hit only a yr or so later. Great that you plan to preserve and use it as is! Frankly I think Stereo is over-rated, I listen mostly on the fly while doing other stuff around the house, so rarely do I actually have time to sit properly positioned in front of 2 speakers, thus the stereo effect is moot! So my main system is a Bogen DB130 mono (35 watt) amp and 2 JBL L-36s running in Mono mode! Great for those Martin Denny and Arthur Lyman "Exotica" sounds ca 1957!

 

[firedome]

PS the box on the side of the speaker...

is the crossover, the capacitors in it should be replaced at some point.
I myself use Illinois caps to preserve the vintage sound. Our magazine, Vacuum Tube Valley, did an extensive test of audio caps and determined that Illinois came closest to preserving the original vintage sound. Open the box and let me know the values on them (like .022 uF, 400v) and I'll give you some, I have an "inventory" of caps!
LOL It's easy to solder them in.

 

[lordkenmore]

Frankly I think Stereo is over-rated

I do, too. Indeed, the fixation on stereo gets me, even to the applications where it's past pointless. Bose Wave Radio/a cheap TV/whatever is stereo? With inches of separation between the speakers, big deal!

And it seems to me there is an argument for a good mono system vs. stereo in that its cheaper (1 speaker, 1 channel amplification) to get a given level of performance. Perhaps budget systems should be mono, therefore, since the simpler system means that more money can go into pushing performance of what's there up a notch or two.

Of course, this is coming from someone who has spent time as Linn Cultie... But I still agree with this part of an article on a Seattle dealer's web site (although I think the article came from someone else--I remember seeing it, or one like it, in a publication from 70s-90s US Linn importer, Audiophile Systems):

A very attractive way to evaluate a hi-fi is to sit back, close your eyes, relax and picture the performers in your mind. You can almost feel them there in the room. You could actually point to them. As attractive as this scenario may seem, it suffers from the very same limitations as the other methods. You do not actually know where that particular performer was standing when the recording was made. In fact, in many studio recordings, the "position" of a performer was simply determined by the position of a pan pot or balance control on a recording console! In truth, do you really care where he was standing? Most people would rather listen to a good pianist in the next room than a bad piano player eight feet in front of them and 24.7 inches to the left. Don't get us wrong. The "image" can be a very attractive aspect of a hi-fi system's performance. However, it is only of concern after you have sorted out the musical aspects of the system.

http://hawthornestereo.com/advice/judging.html

 

[cuffs054]

Stereo v Mono is an interesting thought. I have an older Tivoli mono radio that I use in the living room. The fidelity is really great and I don't even think of "stereo" when I use it.

 

[tolivac]

Really,high quality mono is BETTER than crappy quality stereo!!!Drather have one good sounding channel than two or more bad sounding ones!

 

[kb0nes]

To a degree the stereo vs mono comparison really comes down to how you listen.

If the music is just background music listened to as one goes about their daily life it really doesn't matter at all, mono is fine.

If the music is more of a listening event that you sit for, mono is just missing dimension. While stereo is far from fully representing a live performance, it does add some missing depth.

I have a few components that were from before the dawn of stereo, but all my mono amps have since been paired for 2-channel use.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I know that when stereo came out, Count Basie was not too happy with having to break his band up into 3 different rooms to make records.

Very few stereo recordings attempt to produce an authentic soundstage, most are just gimmicky, even to this day.

Very nice set you have there. The GE variable reluctance phono cartridge will give excellent results on mono records, especially 78s.

You will find styli, motor mounts, and an idler wheel rebuilding service at the link below.

Ken D.

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com

 

[neptunebob]

Classic Rock made mono obsolete...

If stereo had not come along, you could not have bands like Pink Floyd. They would not sound like much on the GE you write about.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

Pink Floyd albums are very well engineered, but that's an exception in the land of rock and pop. A few of the early Pink Floyd albums were available in mono, and as with the Beatles, the mono mixes are better in some ways.

Ken D.