Thermador Steam Machine

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deeptub

deeptub

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
6
Location
Carbondale, IL
I bought a Thermador THD-3600 (MOL) "Steam Machine" dishwasher at a Habitat for Humanity ReStore over the weekend. It seemed an interesting change of pace from my usual KitchenAids. The motor needs some attention (sounds like a bad bearing) and the racks need some attention, but it holds water and the "steam generator" heating element does indeed produce steam. I haven't tried loading it yet, but it seems that both racks have pretty limited overhead clearance. There also doesn't seem to be much of a filtration system. Does anyone have any experience with these machines? The steam part seems fun, but I wonder how good of a machine it really is. (It isn't nearly as sturdily constructed as a Hobart KitchenAid).

T.
 
YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL DISHWASHER!!! I had a TOL Steam machine in one of the first houses that I owned in Florida. I loved it! No filtration rig-a-marole to deal with! You'll also notice that the holes in the arms are LARGE. Never had a dirty dish, pot, or pan come out of that thing. Just be very careful that you don't break the washtower. I think parts are still available. Contact your parts supplier or John LeFever and he can hook you up with parts. You'll love using that machine! It's a little noisy but well worth it! Mark
 
Thanks! It seems like many parts are still available...the ones that aren't seem like the ones that one wouldn't expect to break anyway. I'm impressed that the door panel is actually black glass...with a stainless motor panel...I'm assuming to coordinate with thee the CMT ovens of the same vintage.

T.
 
I've only seen one of these running, years ago at a party. My attention was quickly diverted from the appliances ;-) but it was a very cool dishwasher. The steam cycle made some great sounds. I have a plexiglas display door for the Steam Machine, now I need to find the machine!
 
therm ADORE

Believe it or not, in some ways the STEAMachine was better than the KitchenAid. It held more dishes,has a stainless steel tub instead of chippable porcelain (though KitchenAid porcelain was 2 coats, plus an overglaze,the best of the porcelains.The THERMADOR also had thicker racks, loops on each tine for dish protection, straight through water action that was quite vigorous,Disposaway drain with no filter to clean yet still outcleaned the Hobart KitchenAid.HONEST!As for rack clearance ,just tilt tall glasses sideways on the upper rack.
 
I had friends in Houston that had the Waste King version of this--SS interior, black glass exterior, and 4 cycles. Essentially it was like my parents' earlier waste king but with the steam cycle. I remember my friends' sounded somewhat different than my parents' when it came to the water action noise, more intense and a larger sweep. There was only one thing in our household that oculdn't fit in the top rack, a very large and tall Texas Size ice tea glass. We simply put them in the bottom rack. I'm of the old school, if it's not plastic and won't melt and will fit securely, glasses will go in the bottom. My mom would leave most of the glasses in the cabinets for the twice a year or once a year bug man spraying. And then I had to run all everyday, bar, and crystal through the dishwasher. All glass loads top & bottom.
 
I ran the Thermador through the FULL STEAM cycle the other night. It steamed for about 20 minutes--well after steam was puffing out the fill flume. I imagine it wouldn't go so long if it were in a toasty kitchen instead of a frigid garage. Oddly, its thermostats are all pressed against the inner door rather than the bottom of the tank. I guess they measure steam temp rather than water temp, but...how hot has the water become by the time the inner door reaches, say, 140 degrees?

I had to fix the rather unique dispenser. It had become slightly deformed from heat and time and wasn't opening. I shaved a bit of plastic off and it's fine. It's sort of like the old GE square dispenser, but its a half circle instead of a quarter circle, and it has two compartments. There is a single bimetal that triggers up to 3 times--it ratchets open one cup the first time, another cup the second time, and then triggers the rinse agent dispenser the third time. You have to be careful when you use a short wash cycle to only close the dispenser halfway, otherwise it will open the empty cup for wash and open the filled cup during the final rinse. I like the idea in that it simplifies the timer and the circuitry to just repeatedly actuate the same bimetal, but it seems to trade possible increased reliability for certain human error.

Also had to fiddle with the timer--it stopped advancing right before Rinse. There was some yitka in that segment's tooth of the ratchet that advances the timer (is that called the escapement?). I carefully cleaned it out with a toothpick and it's now run 3 times around with no problems.

Getting closer to actually putting dirty dishes in it...

T.
 
I washed a pretty dirty load--including a skillet from making sausage gravy and food processor parts from making french bread. All had sat for about a day. I ran it on Heavy Steam Pots/Pans and all came perfectly clean.

The upper bearing in the motor is very noisy--can't hear the washing action for all the motor racket. But a used motor and a new seal are on the way.

Oh, and I found a date code on the motor relay: 2/85.

T.
 
Great report then! Do you have a way to post pics?

I found one of these Waste King Steam Machines yesterday, after yours and Mark's reviews, I can't wait to try it! It's in rough shape though, missing the bottom front panel and the lower rack is suffering from DRS (degenerative rust syndrome) and I haven't ran it yet so who knows. This is the first one I've seen in a very long time so I grabbed it because I have that Steam Machine display window for it, and I don't have enough crap piled in my garage ;-) Were you able to find parts for it? I'll have to visit my Launderall Dealer as I know they used to service them, hopefully I'll get lucky! I'll post a couple of pics of it tonight.
 
Repairclinic.com and appliancepartspros.com have some parts available, though the prices are on the steep side. Appliancepartspros.com has exploded diagrams as well.

I didn't mention it, but I need to order new hinges for mine (still available). They are quite misshapen. I don't know if someone stood on the open door or what, but it opens about 110 degrees.

I will try to take some pics soon.

T.

http://www.appliancepartspros.com
 
Here it is...

I've replaced the motor in the Steam Machine. I couldn't bear to pay what places were asking for a genuine Thermador motor ($195), so I got a new GE-made D&M motor off Ebay, mounted it with some spacers to make room for the motor's external fan/slinger (which the Thermador motor didn't have) and so that the shaft would be the right length inside the pump. Had to dremel out the inside of the drain impeller so it would fit on this motor shaft. I've run it a couple times this evening and it's fairly quiet and not leaking.

3-10-2005-22-28-19--deeptub.jpg
 
Loved seeing the inside again. AT age 13 I thought those racks worked so well for our family. Mom's china fit the best in there. Looking at them now, that top rack sure was shallow.
 
Excellent pics - these are certainly unique machines for sure and your motor repair is very creative! Have you tried a steam cycle yet? The one I found was this exact same model but mine didn't run at all. Since there was rust on the tank seams, I didn't see the point of keeping it, I'll hope for a better one down the line. Keep us posted of the progress and what you think of it's performance!
 
Had one of these babies for many years, years ago when I lived in NYC. Fantastic dishwasher. Holds a lot, cleaned better than any of my KitchenAids ever did. Just doesn't have a lot of overhead clearance, but some creative loading solved that problem. Actually, the one problem spot with that machine was the detergent dispenser...had to repair that several times. But the machine was heavily used during its life, so I guess I can't complain. It was a champion pot washer, no filters, no gimmicks, just a great performer. Would love to find another one as a second machine. Check carefull the plastic clip that fits over the center of the lower wash arm that allows the arm to rotate on the water tower. It tends to wear and stop the rotation of the arm, but you can hear that the arm is not turning if that should happen. Nice thing about that machine is the wash system is very simple, the wash arms really never clog and its virtually maintenance free. Enjoy your new toy!!
 
Thermadore applicances were sold as OEM appliances in the Eichler homes out in California. Unique appliances for unique homes! I had never really heard much about thermatore appliances over the years.
 
I've used the machine a few times now. It does a very good job of cleaning and is fairly quiet (the tub has some sound deadening material on it as well as a thin fiberglas blanket). The steam cycles aren't as dramatic as I would have expected. The element is not a dual wattage like the sump heater in a Hobart KitchenAid Superba. So it doesn't make the "water boiling" noises like those machines on SaniCycle. The thermador makes a sizzling noise now and then, but other kitchen noises (like a refrigerator) tend to drown it out. Open the door, though, and there's no question that it's generating steam. My only gripe is with loading. I know many people have said that there are no insurmountable obstacles to loading these machines, but there are some things that just won't fit. Half-sheet baking pans will not fit in the lower rack. If they had put the rack tracks near the top of the upper rack rather than the very bottom, the tops of the baking sheets could slide between the gap between the upper rack and the tub wall (like on KitchenAid) but they didn't. A 12" skillet will also not fit in the lower rack. The upper rack has two "fences" that can be moved around and a removable dish rack. These make the upper rack fairly flexible, but since the bottom of the rack is perfectly flat, it's difficult to get some items to tilt on an angle so their bottoms drain.

So, the machine is back in the garage, waiting for its door hinges. Once they come, I will install it in place of the KA for awhile and see what I learn, but I feel like I might be too set in my KA ways for this machine.

T.
 
Dishwashing Delites

Deeptub,it's true that this machine has it's quirks, just as KAs have theirs.Some loading restrictions are on the Thermador,however it DOES have some advantages over the KA. While NOBODY has EVER topped a Hobart KA in durability and construction,the Thermadors DO clean better, even without a filter or soft food disposer, due to super high-powered STRAIGHT-THRU water action,SS tub that slides off particles at drain time so as not to stick to the walls and redeposit, and overall design.They also,overall hold more dishes,and the curled pins and thicker racks protect dishes better.Also, SS beats porcelain because it's unchippable,though KA's Tridura 2 coat porcelain with baked on overglaze is the best of the porcelains.
 
Let's not forget that the WK/Thermador uses quite a bit of water. The one we had growing up went through 6 water changes on the Full Cycle.
 
4-way HYDRO SLURP

true,but Hobart KAs did also.In fact,as an example, the KA model KDS-17A used about 15 GALS.full cycle and a whopping 19.2 GALS. on soak cycle,the WK/Thermadors from the 60s-80s used 12 GALS. full cycle, many fuzzie-logic machines today tilt that high on really scuzzy loads,at least none of these machines use the typical 42 GALS.OF water that an average TL clothes washer uses, tho' some of that is cold.
 
Yes, all of my dishwashers are guzzlers. I'm amazed at how much water my KDS-18 and especially my KDS-17A can use in such a short period of time. Practically as soon as the water valve closes, the drain valve opens. Ah well, dilution is the solution. My parents' Superba 21 is fairly stingy with water (as far as 17 year old American dishwashers go...) at 8.5 gallons on Normal. Only 4 fills and does an excellent job. I do like how speedy the old KA's are. I haven't timed it, but the Thermador seems to dawdle along for a good part of the evening.

T.
 
Actually, the Waste King/Thermador tanks are not stainless steel. They are a plated sheet metal with several seams in them that tend to leak water over time and start the rusting process which if not caught and corrected, will mean certain death for the machine. The one I found already had some rust on the seam at the back of the tank and around the opening of the fill flume.
 
SS??

I know! I was shocked when John Lefever told me this only a few weeks ago. I suppose that since many of the components are stainless steel (of which there are varying grades and types) they could get away with it. He said it was a plated steel and obviously it won't stain so...

The repair record didn't sound too great either which all but shattered my hopes for a resurrection of the one I found. I always thought they were sexy looking dishwashers.
 

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