This is really beyond belief

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panthera

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I am only posting the link here, and no, there is nothing graphic or bloody, gore-filled or otherwise reason to avert the eyes.
Or ears.
But it is disturbing and terrifying at a level which should make every single one of us stop for a moment and consider.

I'll leave it at that.

But I am not promising sweet dreams.

 
anything to be happy about

I'm just wondering if you plan to post anything any time soon that we can all be happy about.

Please do.

Thanks.

Bob
 
Bob, I like you,

I like you a great deal, but in this instance, I agree with Keven (Whom I also like).

The only thing for evil to flourish is for good people to ignore it...something like that.

No, this was not a "happy" thing to post, but it is a neccessary thing to post.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
I believe the latest comments posted about this story on its web site best sum up the situation:

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"The blame for this ridiculous incident rests on the shoulders of an incompetent Amtrak employee. Amtrak allows pictures from the train. Had the conductor carried out her responsibilities in accordance with Amtrak standards, this event would never have happened. This ignorant/arrogant Amtrak employee is solely responsible for what happened on that train and she should be fired. As usual,the illogical, blame America first crowd has taken the opportunity to blame the government for the actions of one out of control conductor. Her conduct is reprehensible, don't direct the subject away from the point by including your dislike for America."

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While I would be the last one to in any way endorse or agree with the constitution-stripping practices of our current governmental REGIME, who surely is attempting to drag us toward a fascist society (and will surely suceed unless people WAKE THE F&#K UP), in this case I don't see how the government can be held accountable for the actions of an over-zealous Amtrak employee who is suffering from "Barney Fife Syndrome."
 
Bob,

I am sorry you find this gloomy.
I do, too.
There are many threads I contribute happy, childish nonsense to.
Some of the silliest, most trivial on this site and in this forum are started by me.
Occasionally, I even post something regal over in Imperial - tho' I am cautious to focus on the topic at hand.

I suppose it is inevitable, as more and more Europeans become interested in this wonderful site that a certain dialog is going to be advanced. We are very conscious of the need for a strong, democratic and free United States.

Unless you travel frequently, you probably are not aware of the fact that tourism to the US has fallen by over 19% - tendency increasing very rapidly. This, despite the fact that the $ is cheaper today than at any time in decades. Even business people, people who have a strong motivation (keeping their jobs) are increasingly refusing to travel to the US, demanding that their US business partners visit them abroad.

Whatever one's political leanings (mine are easy, I think the US constitution is the single greatest document in history and, together with the amendments ('cept that silly one against alcohol) represents the world's best hope for freedom and peace.

Which pretty much brings me back to the beginning. Don't read my stuff it if brings you down, I, on my part, will try hard to concentrate on being the silly little piece of trivial fluff I always was.

Or, as I was saying to my neighbor just the other day while watching the Huns gather to attack Rome: "Noli nothis permittere te terere".
 
Maggie,

I certainly agree that the problem originated with this hysterical conductor.

And yet, you see how it goes. The police are required to act upon her report...they must respond. So they did.

And, by all accounts, within the framework of their rigid requirements, they showed a lot more patience than she did.

This is not another case of "the ugly American syndrome".

It is really easy and dangerous for people to get into that mind-set.

It does not help one bit that too many folks -especially the pseudo-intellectual left in the UK and Germany have spent the last decades looking down their aquiline noses at the US, criticizing everything...while blithely ignoring their own problems.

But these actions are happening a great deal more frequently than most folks in the US realize - and they resonate around the world. Again, at a time when world tourism is up up up - and your country's dollar is cheap cheap cheap, tourism is way way down.

Please don't just dismiss this as another case of America bashing. It isn't.

I do not know what happened to that poor tourist (does anyone yet?) but Amtrak has, in the recent past, written several letters to customers apologizing clearly and without the usual weasel words for such actions by their rent-a-cops and over-zealous Schaffner, er, conductors.

Germany became a dictatorship legally. The Nazis played on the fears of the people, their firm belief that "it couldn't happen here - not in the home of the thinker, the poet...Germany at that time was one of the most advanced and civilized countries in the world. A democracy with more citizen's rights than the US...and all it took was for the good people to look the other way. "They wouldn't take those actions if it weren't important."
Yeah, right.
Look - If I had to choose between Goldwater or Eisenhower or even, oh my paws and whiskers, Richard Nixon versus the Hill and Bill fun club, I'd go for the dry-as-a-desert, bald and slighly crooked Republicans. All three of whom, by the by, were firm believers in the US constitution and their duty to uphold it.

But I can't. I have to deal with reality as it is in 2007. And that reality shows a world which is desperately in need of the US...focusing on the real problems, the islamic terrorists, and not on elderly Japanese visitors who are a bit camera happy.
(Was that a tautology?)
 
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to

Read the following with an eye toward what's currently going on in the world but most specifically in the U.S., and then tell me you'd still prefer "bald and slightly crooked Republicans."

==============================================================

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."

-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

.......................................................

Origins: Another timely quote in the vein of the apocryphal Julius Caesar warning about political leaders who can all too easily send the citizenry marching eagerly off to war by manufacturing crises that purportedly threaten national security and making popular appeals to patriotism.

In this case the sentiment expressed is even more disturbing because it comes not from a venerated figure of antiquity, but supposedly from a reviled twentieth-century figure associated with the most chilling example of genocide in human history: Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall and Luftwaffe-Chief.

We may be made somewhat uneasy by the idea that the head of a classic Swastika civilization recognized 2,000 years ago that the populace could be manipulated into sacrificing themselves in wars at the whims of their leaders, but we're outraged (and maybe even scared) at the thought of a Nazi fascist flunky's recognizing and telling us the same thing.

The notable difference here is that although the Caesar quote is a latter-day fabrication, the words attributed to Hermann Goering are real. Goering was one of the highest-ranking Nazis who survived to be captured and put on trial for war crimes in the city of Nuremberg by the Allies after the end of World War II. He was found guilty on charges of "war crimes," "crimes against peace," and "crimes against humanity" by the Nuremberg tribunal and sentenced to death by hanging. The sentence could not be carried out, however, because Goering committed suicide with smuggled cyanide capsules hours before his execution, scheduled for 15 October 1946.

The quote cited above does not appear in transcripts of the Nuremberg trials because although Goering spoke these words during the course of the proceedings, he did not offer them at his trial. His comments were made privately to Gustave Gilbert, a German-speaking intelligence officer and psychologist who was granted free access by the Allies to all the prisoners held in the Nuremberg jail. Gilbert kept a journal of his observations of the proceedings and his conversations with the prisoners, which he later published in the book Nuremberg Diary. The quote offered above was part of a conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess:

Sweating in his cell in the evening, Goering was defensive and deflated and not very happy over the turn the trial was taking. He said that he had no control over the actions or the defense of the others, and that he had never been anti-Semitic himself, had not believed these atrocities, and that several Jews had offered to testify in his behalf. If [Hans] Frank [Governor-General of occupied Poland] had known about atrocities in 1943, he should have come to him and he would have tried to do something about it.

He might not have had enough power to change things in 1943, but if somebody had come to him in 1941 or 1942 he could have forced a showdown. (I still did not have the desire at this point to tell him what [SS General Otto] Ohlendorf had said to this: that Goering had been written off as an effective "moderating" influence, because of his drug addiction and corruption.) I pointed out that with his "temperamental utterances," such as preferring the killing of 200 Jews to the destruction of property, he had hardly set himself up as champion of minority rights. Goering protested that too much weight was being put on these temperamental utterances. Furthermore, he made it clear that he was not defending or glorifying Hitler.

Later in the conversation, Gilbert recorded Goering's observations that the common people can always be manipulated into supporting and fighting wars by their political leaders:

We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Source:
Gilbert, G.M. Nuremberg Diary.
New York: Farrar, Straus and Company, 1947 (pp. 278-279).

-------
(Adapted from http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp)
 
Charles,

I will have to keep this short, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you - it is very late here.
Unfortunately, I left out a bit of my position.
May I add it here?
Eisenhower, Goldwater and Nixon, whatever their many limitations and my disagreements with many of their policies, were all on record as opposed to the use of torture, Nixon for the practical reason that it would make it impossible to protect captured US soldiers from revenge taking.
Eisenhower and Goldwater were both firmly convinced that homosexuals should be left alone.
All three men either practiced a very welcoming and tolerant version of their religion and were all firmly committed to the principle of separation of church and state.
Now, if three Republicans could do that, I do not understand the hesitation on the part of the Democrats and their uncrowned Queen at using their congressional power to restore constitutionally guaranteed protections of US citizens, respectively to demand adherence to treaties which the US largely instigated and signed on the issue of non-torture.

OK? Am I absolved now? As a union member and, as long as I was an American, a member of the democratic party (including caucus delegate) I dare say my political home is safely on the side of human rights. I am what was once called a Jeffersonian democrat: fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

And I am not going to even touch the environmental problems at hand.
 
Charles,

I will have to keep this short, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you - it is very late here.
Unfortunately, I left out a bit of my position.
May I add it here?
Eisenhower, Goldwater and Nixon, whatever their many limitations and my disagreements with many of their policies, were all on record as opposed to the use of torture, Nixon for the practical reason that it would make it impossible to protect captured US soldiers from revenge taking.
Eisenhower and Goldwater were both firmly convinced that homosexuals should be left alone.
All three men either practiced a very welcoming and tolerant version of their religion and were all firmly committed to the principle of separation of church and state.
Now, if three Republicans could do that, I do not understand the hesitation on the part of the Democrats and their uncrowned Queen at using their congressional power to restore constitutionally guaranteed protections of US citizens, respectively to demand adherence to treaties which the US largely instigated and signed on the issue of non-torture.
I am what was once called a Jeffersonian democrat: fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

And I am not going to even touch the environmental problems at hand.
 
Right, Pantera. I was waggling an accusing finger at you, I just wanted to point out what the current crop of Republicans is doing to the world.

As for Homeland Security and all that red-herring scare-tactic stuff (in itself the best form of terrorism there is), the following quote, attributed to numerous people including Benjamin Franklin, comes to mind:

[size=+1]“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security."[/size]
 
"I just wanted to point out what the current crop of Republicans is doing to the world...."

Maggie, I agree with you, but if the Democrats allow them to get away with it, are they one iota better than the Republicans?

How many of our problems as a nation are actually fundamental defects of the power structure to begin with, rather than partisan?
 
"but if the Democrats allow them to get away with it, are they one iota better than the Republicans?"

Of course not. The point is, no Democratic president to date has done the things the current president has done, nor has any other president to date been in bed with so many external interests (Haliburton, Blackwater, Saudi Arabian Royal Family, etc etc etc) who stand to benefit DIRECTLY by a sitting president's actions.
 
Sad thing is...

...a friend told me yesterday that this "sitting president" signed a new "law" back in March that gives him the right to suspend elections indefinitely if a "national emergency" arises. Now THAT is damned scary.
 
...a friend told me yesterday that this "sitting president" signed a new "law" back in March that gives him the right to suspend elections indefinitely if a "national emergency" arises. Now THAT is damned scary.

Yep. See link to numerous references to this. (You'll have to sift through some irrelevant links but I felt it prudent to give the google listings results rather than pick just one result.)

Kinda like what's going on in that other great bastion of democracy, Pakistan. (see link in next posting)

 
Amtrak train conductors

I used to ride Amtrak on a daily basis. It was my observation that most conductors were competent, friendly, or at least, not hostile to passengers. However I did run across one conductor who was continually arrogant and abusive to passengers. My guess is that this chap had risen to his level of incompetence, and was compensating for his dull intellect with aggression and harrassment of passengers. It would seem that Amtrak has a very difficult time firing such employees. Instead, the public must put up with them until the employee commits some heinous offence even a calcified bureaucracy can't ignore.
 
This is just simply more 9/11 hysteria. I see it all the time. Just try to take out a camera inside an airport these days. It won't be long before you are asked why you are taking photos and who will you be giving them to.
About a year ago I was non reving on an American Airlines flight. I didn't get to see the registration number that's painted on the tail of the aircraft on boarding due to the strange way the plane was positioned at the gate. So I asked the Flight Attendant (who knows I was a Non-Rev and a pilot for another airline) what the number was. She told me it was secret information and that I was not supposed to ask those kind of questions. WTF? It's on the outside of the airplane for all to see. How could it be secret. She then went away. A few minutes later the purser showed up asking me who am I going to give that information to? Who asked me to ask for it? What am I going to do with it?
Later in the same flight a teenager was taking some photos out of the planes window inflight. A flight attendant told him that he has to take the film out of his camera and expose it or if it's a digital camera he has to erase all his photos on it or HE will have the camera confisicated and then be arrested when he lands.
On the trip back home believe it or not we had the same crew! They certainly did remember me! When I boarded the F/A said "Oh no, not YOU again!" I just said N910AN and laughed. She did as well.
Most airlines now a days say that you CAN take pictures from the plane, but don't take any of the flight attendants performing their duties. It seems some of them haven't read this.
 

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