This time, it's not a republican, WAY TO GO DEMOCRATS!

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Runematic- Thanks so much for making me realize why I vote D

Shane, how did I do that? I was merely posting a story & made no political referrence either way. I just thought that Spitzer had gotten what he's given out. Repub, dem, who cares.

I saw this in an article this morning & thought that this was funny: QUOTE "Two law enforcement officials say that safety considerations mentioned in the affidavit related to Spitzer's preference to not wear a condom and insistence by the prostitute named Kristen that he wear one."
 
This is not about Republican or Democrat, gay or straight, Bush or Obama, Europe vs America, Catholic or Protestant, or any other false dichotomy projected onto the situation by those of us who should know better.

It's not about the sex itself. I myself have paid for sex, hung about the salt mines to be paid for sex, and actually spent the better part of my college years working in a full-service dungeon, choosing to earn extra cash flogging Japanese bankers with oakleaf brooms over unloading Japanese cargo planes at JFK, because I hated long commutes and the A train, and the lunch options at the buffet were far nicer.

I'm neither shocked nor titillated by these latest revelations.

But here's my point (and I KNOW you've been dying for me to get to it, already...)

Spitzer was a mean, vile canker sore of a man, who used thuggish methods and referred to himself as the "f***ing Steamroller" and earned the emnity of New Yorkers of every political stripe for his conduct before any of this ever surfaced.

To those who believe this was a setup, take it from the aw.org member for whom life without a good conspiracy theory is like a squirrel without a nut. This was a bombshell, and, as Launderess alluded to earlier, these particular types of things simply don't work that way.

This was an ongoing investigation involving organized crime and the fact that this took over a week to surface, in scandal-ready New York, speaks volumes as to the lengths the Feds probably had to go to, to insure their dots and tees were crossed.

Shelly Silver COULD have been involved in some way, but it's highly unlikely that this particular method would have been used, for the simple reason that Silver knows the jig would be up for him as well (he is also quite unpopular and corrupt).

It's about the HYPOCRISY, people.

Eliot Spitzer built his career on an utterly manufactured, squeaky-clean image that most New Yorkers saw through immediately but disregarded simply because there were NO suitable Democratic political alternatives at the time.

A few years ago, before his sacred ascendancy to the throne, Spitzer himself prosecuted another high-profile prostitution ring in Staten Island, and you would have thought he was channeling Falwell, Dobson, and Roberts themselves, for all of his sanctimonious rectitude.

Much like Rudy, another mean, mean man who orchestrated his own fall from grace through his own hubris and corruption, he was elected largely because of the PERCEPTION that his prosecutorial career and his willingness to take on "the big boys" bought him respectability and street cred that the electorate was all too willing and desperate to at least rent for a fashion.

Runematic, please try to understand that we on the left side of the aisle are deeply divided over a very contentious presidential primary showdown, and many of us have a few nerves exposed right now.

In my opinion, we have been at the forefront of complaining about the denials and the apologetics we see from the right every time yet another hypocritical Republican candidate gets snagged.

I think, this time, we have to set an example, face the fact that Spitzer's transgressions and betrayal of the public trust (and it WAS such a betrayal, he completely left himself open for extortion attempts and the like, by dint of his position) reflect badly on the Democratic side, take ownership of it, and denounce it for the ethical (not moral) lapse that it is, for if we do not, do we not become that which we have ridiculed and despised?

I just think it's time to take the high road ourselves, be within, and stay above the fray.

Thanks for listening.
 
"With all the problems the US faces, I wonder if this is really worth wasting time on."

Panthera, this is the exact same rationale I recall hearing when impeachment was taken "off the table", and for all that "reaching across the aisle, for the good of the nation" that did us, it appears that, with all the infighting on the Democratic side, it's quite likely we will be saddled with McCain for our trouble.

IMHO, it is NEVER okay to sacrifice justice for the sake of political pragmatism and expedience. One can maybe COMPROMISE, but never sacrifice justice entirely and expect not to be rewarded in kind for it.
 
No glove, no love.

~It's about the HYPOCRISY, people.

Yeah and the desire to play without a condom. Now THAT is pompous, arrogant, risky, stupid and COMPLETELY disrespectful to all parties invoved, including the spouse.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, NOTHING is more dangerous that a straight man looking for some side action. They take risks out of desperation that should NEVER EVER EVER HAPPEN.

He took matters into his own hand, alright, but not in the best possible, least hurtful interpretation of that sentence.
 
"What is simply boils down to is public perception; you cannot have the highest man in New York State, arranging meetings with escorts, no matter who is paying."

Thank you. We can do better than this.

There is also the little matter of how much these little bacchanals cost...the Mayflower? $3,500-$5,000 a pop (no pun intended)...

In the middle of a budget crisis, I'd have PREFERRED for him to wet his whistle on Staten Island...

At least Bill did us the decency of using property we already owned, and a girl willing to give it up for free...
 
"Yeah and the desire to play without a condom. Now THAT is pompous, arrogant, risky, stupid and COMPLETELY disrespectful to all parties invoved, including the spouse."

Yep, but I hear of such tales CONSTANTLY, and with little regard to the risks involved, and little sense of accountability or even shame.
 
oh Scotty. I'm DYING laughing here...........

~It's not about the sex itself. I myself have........ and actually spent the better part of my college years working in a full-service ..........choosing to earn extra cash.

That mature woman I met at a flea-market in New Hope, PA was right...once you leave Manhattan you are camping.

You have made my day! and I'm coming out of this thread feeling all pure and innocent (which ain't easy!) *LOL*
 
Scott,

Of course you are right, it does matter. I guess I just let my own cultural perspectives get away with me on this one.

I find it increasingly hard to take the "high road" in dealing with the christianists and the wingnuts who have kidnapped the Republican party. They don't play by the rules, because in their eyes, the ends justify the means. So when someone from "our" side of the aisle gets into trouble, my first impulse is to duck. You just know that the same people who exonerated Vitter will be screaming for blood and making the nastiest most of this.

I guess I have come to subscribe to the old saying:
The sheep can proclaim vegetarianism as long as they like...just, who gets to tell the wolves?

Your and Laundress' perspective that this was not a Republican guided plot is interesting. I am listening, but have to admit...after the last seven years and all the knee-jerk nastiness from the right, my first assumption is always: It's a Republican plot.

Let's just hope this doesn't hurt the Democrats in the fall. New York is an important state, not only because it is culturally and scenically magnificent.
 
Toggles,

As far as I'm concerned, you are
sans peur, sans reproche.

Whether we agree or disagree, I can always count on you to liven things up...even though you have a ways to go to beat Scott in the life experiences areana...
uh, Steve, that was *not*, soooo not, an invitation to try.
 
~I can always count on you to liven things up.

Tastefully done, of course.

(Mad shit-eating grin on face, sorta like Rumsfield above.)
 
But of course, dahling, but of course

As for taste, well...my partner says it's all in my mouth.
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(The nice thing about threads like this one is the PC-Police and the NetNannies get bored after the first two comments and leave us alone).
 
Well, What about Senator David Vitter??

amazing he still holds his Senate seat in Louisiana. Why haven't the citizens of Louisiana or the Republican party call for his resignation?
This whole Spitzer situation is such a shame. I had such high hopes for him since he was such a steadfast friend of the gay community. Before we all crucify him, Let's remember that Spitzer had to courage to come out and say he supported gay marriage, even during a gubernatorial campaign. This does not condone his behavior by no means. Sadly, I think Spitzer does need to resign and focus on restoring his families trust and faith in him.
So sad...so very sad..
 
Panthera, where do I go to get my tinfoil hat back??

"Your and Laundress' perspective that this was not a Republican guided plot is interesting. I am listening, but have to admit...after the last seven years and all the knee-jerk nastiness from the right, my first assumption is always: It's a Republican plot."

Well, dog my cats! Seems there's an unsubstantiated buzz about town that Mukasey may have had a hand in Spitzer's sudden fall from grace.

I'm not convinced, but it's ample reason to raise our collective antennae...

I'm certainly not excusing the actions of this mean, mean man, but, on the other hand....if it WERE true, the question then becomes are we really interested in our tax dollars going to the Department of Justice to fund politically motivated targeted assassinations in an election year?

See that? For all I know, your suspicions of a plot are well founded.

The other interesting thing I've heard is that Spitzer was placed under suicide watch last night, which, honestly, had never even occurred to me.

What a world.
 
Yeah. well, hell hath no fury like a lady scorned...

just wait 'till his wife gets over the shock and realizes, thanks to him and his "I gotta shoot it where it counts" mentality, she has, de facto, been having sex with every slimy Tom, Dick and Harry in NYC.
Can you say Aids test, STDs and all that good stuff?
Sure you can.
I do believe, that was the point where Hillary is supposed to have started throwing stuff at Bill...
O ye gods and little fishes, if it ain't my paranoia but reality, well, gosh golly gee.
Wouldn't surprise me. The Republicans went after Seligmann, why not go after Spitzer?
Eisenhower and Goldwater must be spinning so fast in their graves, you can hear them...and I find myself missing Nixon more and more.
 
Look at things this way, someone had to have known what Mr.Spitzer was up to, or at least the bit about him moving money around in order to contact the IRS/FBI, which started the balls rolling.

According to media reports Mr. Spitzer has had several liasons going back years with women furnished by that escort service. This means as he was both attorney general and a prosecutor putting away prositutes and others engaged with that activity, he was also employing the same.

Let me let you in on a little secret; the more wealth a person has,the less privacy. Great houses, great estates, great wealth all require a vast army of persons and such, to manage and service such things. Daily contact with such persons means those employed to keep the "machine" running smoothly simply know things outsiders do not. In the course of time, when the household, or whatever deems something has gone on long enough, it will take steps to have the situation corrected. It only takes a well placed word to begin such a correction, and usually the source of such a word is never known.

Someone besides the persons who ran this escort service, and Mr. Spitzer knew what he was doing,or again that funds were being moved about, and decided they had enough and the man wanted bringing down a peg or two.

It would do well to keep Mr.Spitzer from doing harm to himself. When persons who once were so high, even in their own minds are bought down, just the thought of facing the world can cause them to think about if not bring about their own demise. Mr. Spitzer is all but finished as head of New York State, and in the political area as well. If criminal charges are brought, and he is convicted, his legal license will go as well. He won't even be legally allowed to work in his father's real estate ventures as a broker. So what is left for the man? Mr. Spitzer is in disgrace, and brought himself and his family so low dogs won't bark at them.

One must understand the nature of prosecutors, attorneys and others, involved in law. For the most part they love and uphold the law as a religous Christian the Bible,or Jew the Torah. To be seen as knowingly committing crimes, while also prosecuting the same, is just more than any bar association will bear. Yes, there are bad lawyers, judges, etc; but the worst they fear is not criminal prosecution, though that can be severe, but the loss of esteem by their peers.
 
Folks, I highly doubt that the Republicans were tailing him, trying to set him up etc. Well, no more than the Clinton hit machine out there working in the shadows to get sh!t on Obama.

Oxy, wow. We agree again on something. That nice long rambling post up above that started with "This is not about Republican or Democrat"....I agree with alot of what you wrote. I know that may be hard to believe.

Both parties have been hijacked by extremists. Look at the fringe left with it's anarchist, socialist, communist,etc groups. The far right taint no better, with the hate/supremacist groups.
 
Currency Transaction Reporting

I heard on the radio today that part of the evidence in the investigation of Mr. Spitzer was from the IRS concerning the movement of funds in CASH. Federal law requires that all financial institutions report all transactions involving currency (U.S. or foreign) that total $4000 and above. These reports are filed with the IRS by all banks. When a customers comes in to make a withdrawl or deposit of $4k or more, the customer's personal information is recorded. In communities with banks that have more than one location, this reporting is usually centralized either by manual reporting and more likely, computerized reports that are filed with the IRS in order to "catch" transaction made at multiple locations throughout the day. Transactions involving $10,000 or more are required to have an accompanying report filled out immediately while the customer waits with more detailed information about the nature of the transaction, source, etc. A pattern can emerge from this reporting enabling investigations into drug dealers, fencing operations and, yes, prostitution rings. I heard that Mr. Spitzer had made one withdrawl in particular for $4300 in cash. ZING! Gotcha with the CTR!

Of course, there are bank depositors that routinely have amounts exceeding $10,000 per day, but these are typically grocery stores and other retail outlets and would be considered normal and part of their conducting business. One particular flag for CTR/IRS reporting is car dealers -- for obvious reasons.

So when you win that $230 million in tomorrow's Powerball lottery, don't plan on asking for it in cash! ;-)
 
Yes, Greg your right, but they have now lowered the amounts, $3,000.00 on any monetary transaction that involves cash and still 10,000 in deposit or withdrawl of cash...plus they have now stiffened the penalty on the financial that doesn't report properly or the teller...hefty fines for those individuals.

Not a bad thing.
 
Does it really matter?

Panthera said:

>Let's just hope this doesn't hurt the Democrats in the fall. New York is an important state, not only because it is culturally and scenically magnificent.

After 42 years on this planet, seeing what I have seen in both major political parties in the United States, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that both parties care about their party's power, and the ever increasing power of the state. They care not at all for individual liberties, the US constitution, or limited government.

I sometimes feel like I am living in "Animal Farm"

Libertarianism is the only solution. At least for me.

Nate
 
I'm glad Spitzer was nailed. I spend a lot of time bagging on hypocrite right-wingers, and I'm certainly not going to back off just because this guy happened to play on my team.

You have to wonder what it is about power that would lead someone do something so stupid; They are anesthetized into thinking they won't ever get caught.

Spitzer should get bounced immediately, and we Democrats should be the ones calling for it. Nothing would appear more lame than being an apologist for this hypocritical egomaniac.

I guess the maxim is true: Power corrupts.
 
"After 42 years on this planet, seeing what I have seen in both major political parties in the United States, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that both parties care about their party's power, and the ever increasing power of the state. They care not at all for individual liberties, the US constitution, or limited government."

Nate, I am your age and I will take this all one step further.

Yes, we all support one party or another for perceived benefit of our own special interests, maybe even dabbling in third parties for legitimate, well-grounded reasons and intentions, or perhaps just for the edginess of it all.

But my new theory is that what we really have in America now is a one-party system masquerading as a two-party state.

Look at the lack of substance among the candidates, the willingness to mudsling just because they have no worthy message to sell us, the uniformity of their positions that cannot even come close to meeting the needs of the everyday working American, much less the "least among us".

Look at the real agendas they all seem to ultimately march behind, concepts like the abolition of national borders, the legitimacy of torture, whether or not the poisoning of the food supply and even the safety of children's toys is worthy of debate.

Spying, wiretaps, habeus corpus, and election fraud from one side of the choir....political correctness, a lost sense of sovereignity and the devaluation of nationalism, "activist" judges and the ever-popular nanny state, with its low water levels and phosphate bans, lol, from the other side of the choir.

Can you imagine such ideas being floated around fifteen or even ten years ago without being immediately shot out of the water?

Yet, amongst the growing yowls of indignation, and despite growing numbers of Americans recognizing that they see at least kernels of truth in ALL of the insanities put forth, regardless of party affiliation, they have us at each other's throats, and, beyond that, now infighting WITHIN the infighting.

There is a CONVERGENCE of interests at work here, and it's easy to see because its not the few issues the candidates are willing to address that have us at odds.

It's the multitude of new issues not quite ready for primetime or polite discussion over the dinner table, yet they gnaw at us in our private moments, or maybe in predawn quiet musings with a trusted partner, if we are so lucky.

Much guff is spoken in the name of "change", "readiness from day one", and even "straight talk", but what is remarkable about today's candidates is how similar their positions are, how similarly insufficient their policies seem to be for today's rapidly changing world, and how fundamentally Americans don't trust ANY of them, as much as we fight for our favorite's every touchdown, every bit of yardage gained.

I believe many of us don't trust the process from top to bottom, but don't trust ourselves to demand the necessary reforms, or even to figure out for ourselves what they really are.

That's what I've been kicking around. Voting in one's preferred candidate and convincing ourselves our choices matter in the overall scheme of things isn't worth a tinker's damn if the candidates don't even have the courage of their own convictions and are willing to distort or even flat-out lie about the other guy's positions and fall all over themselves to "reach across the aisle" and pat themselves on the backs about their great compromises.

Meanwhile, the elitists seem to have everyone's interests but the everyday American's at heart, and the control grid ensures our continued enthusiastic participation in this false dichotomy while throwing up every wedge issue and manufactured outrage they can concoct out of thin air, just to keep us distracted from discussing real change and demanding the fundamental restructuring, the rethinking, and profound shift in values the 21st century and our survival as a nation require.

I'm of below- to average intelligence and I believe we are smart enough as a people, as part of a larger world, to take these challenges on, confront them, and help make the world a better place for it. I'm just not sure the powers that be will let us anymore.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings, but I really am looking for ideas.

And, yes, I've been nipping at the Riesling again...:)
 
"I'm glad Spitzer was nailed. I spend a lot of time bagging on hypocrite right-wingers, and I'm certainly not going to back off just because this guy happened to play on my team."

I agree, frig, but the truth is, he never really was on our team and he wasn't the type to have our interests, or anyone else's interests than his own, at heart, to begin with.

We were just the means to his ends (no pun intended).
 
Everyone Is Missing The Much Larger Picture

New York State Senate Majority Leader, Mr. J. Bruno, a man who Mr. Spitzer has hounded and set his sights on displacing, if not diminishing, now has the high moral ground.

Mr. Bruno, along with other state republicans have not been quiet on the woes of their former adversary. They have issued a 48 hour ultimatum for Mr. Spitzer to step down, or they will commence impeachment proccedings.

Just the thought of Mr. Bruno having the last word on matters is probably enough to send Mr.Spitzer into thoughts of self harm, I should say.

Anywho, drama should come to a head today, as it seems quite clear Mr. Spitzer will step down. He really has no choice, as more sorrid details are leaked out to the media, there is simply no way the man can stay in office. Indeed Mr. Spitzer will consider himself lightly dealt with if no state or federal charges are filed against him.

It really is all to sad.

One can only guess who and how many persons are sizing up running for NYS governor in 2010. Mr.Perkins seems a capable person, and probably will do well as he fills out the rest of Mr. Spitzers term, but not sure how he will play in a general election. This all must really distrub Mr. Andrew Cuomo's plans; as it is all but certain he is laying ground as state attorney general to run for governor, but don't believe he thought an opening would come so soon. If someone else runs and wins in 2010, it could be anywhere from four to twelve years before that person could be unseated.
 
What is really sad

is that there is no longer a genuine alternative to voting Democratic. The choice is between a party which is mediocre at best, but at least committed to the rule of law under the US Constitution...and a party which advocates torture, has withdrawn from the Geneva Conventions, eliminated habeaus corpus proceedings (saddest of all: gays who don't seem to realize what that means for us), entangled the US in pointless war...ruined the economy...and driven the price of gas up to its highest level ever.

I see only two ways out of this mess. One, we get firm evidence that, yup, the Republican controlled Justice Department persecuted him like they did Seligmann, or, two, Spitzer admits all then says: "But enough of this double-moral bullshit. When all the Republicans caught cheating on their wives are forced to resign, then I will, too!. He could read a list of the current Republican adulterers, but I suppose the networks might want to sign off after the first 30 minutes or so.
 
And multi-lingual to boot!

Someone on another site pointed out that a sitting Governor must have the goods on several politicians. Wonder if this was a pre-emptive strike?
After all, from a Republican perspective the timing could have been better...a few weeks ago or in a few weeks would have done/could do far more damage, two weeks and most folks won't remember a thing about it.
 
Oh You Remeber The Awful Things They Said About What's H

See? I can't even remember her name, so who cares Edith?

Unless Mr. Spitzer arranges some sort of plea deals, and or the various investigations stop, this sad, sorry and now quite sorrid story is going to play out for months. There will be charges, hearings, trials, and everything else.

Well if nothing else will give one something to talk about at the beginning and most importantly the end of the summer season. Usually by the later everyone has pretty much said all they have to say to each other, and at the former it is all one can do to find anything to say to anyone after inquiring about the house, home, children,and spouse.

L.
 

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