Thor TH85 - question for UK or Europe members

[gizmo]

I recently picked up this machine from the recycle centre for $15 and have just put new bearings in it. It needed other parts too so I phoned a repairer who specializes in Bendix/Thor machines. He offered me a complete identical machine - free! Its drum spider assembly (axle and four arms which connect the drum to the axle)has corroded and snapped.

The question is, is this an Antonio Merloni machine? It is very similar to Eurotech machines sold here, and looks like a Servis I saw once, too.

Thanks

Chris

 

[gizmo]

cracked spider

 

[gizmo]

drum/spider assembly

 

[toggleswitch]

Vwry nice machine! and the price is nice too!

Seems that bearigs are, indeed, the weakest link in F/L-ers.
Do they normally die quickly?

 

[spiraclean]

Hi Chris,
Yes indeed that is a Merloni machine or Indesit Company as it likes to be called these days. Unfortunately they are not at all reliable, I must say I have never seen a drum spider so badly corroded no wonder it snapped. You can find the same mechanicals in Servis branded washers in the UK.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[spiraclean]

Front Loader Bearings

Hi Steve,
It is not so much the bearings are the problem it's the bearing water seals; most bearings fail as a result of water contamination but the quality of the bearing does play a part in premature failure, cheap bearings will wear allowing play in the drum shaft which in turn causes the seal to fail.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[Bearpeter]

Cheaper machines...

Hi all.

I was always under the impression that if the drum rocks back and forth, the bearings were finished. My AEG drum moves but apparently, this is a new type of bearing.

I was always put off from buying a washer with a spin of over 1000rpm due to the fact that the bearings would go very quickly, however, with the more TOL appliances, it seems that the bearings are meant to last well over the norm!! Here's hoping that is correct

Peter

 

[gizmo]

Hi Toggleswitch

On this machine the failure was because there is a two piece backing plate - a diecast frame which is a bearing carrier frames the back of the outer drum, and a stainless steel panel which covers inside the frame. The centre of the panel is a hole the shaft passes through. There is a round rubber seal between the frame and the panel. This is pretty normal construction but instead of bolts or rivets holding them together (normal) this machine has moulded in lugs which are part of the frame but poke through the plate and after assembly are pressed to form "rivets" which hold the plate in place. Trouble is, it is a diecast piece which means it is prone to corrosion from detergent residue. The lugs have corroded and the two pieces partly separated, allowing water to leak out around the bearing carrier, wet the rear bearing and it gave up. I repaired it by drilling out the lugs and using stainless steel bolts to reassemble. So the outer bearing went first, the inner seal and bearing were OK which is reverse to usual in other machines.
The spare parts machine has already had the stainless steel bolts fitted to the backing plate assembly, but now its spider is cactus so it's not worth fixing.

The bearings were originally unsealed ones made in Poland, I replaced them with sealed Japanese bearings so they should last.

I suspect the corrosion is due to using cold water washing so the detergent hasn't dissolved properly. There is a huge residue in the bottom of the drum. Aussies generally wash in cold water but the main brands of Front Loader detergent here aren't really suitable for cold water.

Spiraclean - Is this the same as a Servis? if so it is an Antonio Merloni, not the same as Indesit. There are two Merloni washing machine companies, one changed its name to Indesit and owns Hotpoint, the other, Antonio Merloni, owns Servis and Asko.

Thanks to both.

chris.

 

[foraloysius]

Chris,

I have not seen this particular machine before but that door looks awfully much like an Ariston door. Ariston belongs to the Indesit Company that used to be called Merloni Elettrodomestici. So the answer to your question is no, this is not an Antonio Merloni machine.

Louis

 

[arrrooohhh]

My 2 cents!

This model does have the four vaned drum.

 

[lavamat_jon]

From the drum itself, it does look like an Antonio Merloni machine to me - give away is the 4 vane drum which Servis are (in))famous for. The dial/button arrangement is also identical to older Servis machines; albeit with different styling. So my guess would be it *is* an Antonio Merloni machine.

Hope this helps

Hugh,

Remember not to get confused between the two Merlonis - Antonio Merloni make Servis and Asko at the opposite ends of the markets, and Indesit/Ariston/Hotpoint is made by the now-Indesit Company .

Take care,

Jon

 

[Designgeek]

Yow!, is that arrangement of bearing & shaft used on *all* modern FLs? That is, is the drum supported entirely on the rear shaft? (I had thought there would also be bearings at the front, under the opening where the door is or something of that nature.)

That rear shaft & bearing arrangement looks like what you find on a portable cement mixer, and those in turn are designed to operate on an inclined axis like a Maytag Neptune but a bit steeper of an incline. Not on a horizontal axis. And while it's true that a load of concrete weighs a good bit more than a load of laundry, what's important is the pounding that the bearings take when material is lifted to the top and dropped to the bottom again & again & again. That's a lot of leverage repetitively applied to a rotating shaft and the bearings it runs in.

Seems to me that in a horizontal axis washer, the best arrangement is a shaft & bearing on each end of the drum, as you find in the Staber; and you load through a hatch on side of the drum that lines up with the top door on the washer when the drum stops. This may be a factor in the legendary longevity of Staber washers. Now turn the drum around so its axis of rotation is opposite that of a normal FL, and you can put the hatch on the front or on an inclined panel, or wherever is ergonomically optimal. (And if only they'd make it with a window in the door so you could observe what was going on in there...)

 

[gizmo]

Why is the four vane drum infamous?

Chris.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Chris,

Servis washers are infamous in the sense that they are the only 5 kilo washing machine on the market which have 4 paddles instead of 3 - that is a big clue as far as they go, especially when trying to identify them as they come up under different guises.

Hope this cleared it up

Jon

 

[spiraclean]

Merloni 4 Paddle Drum

Hi Jon,
Regarding the 4 paddle drum I can only go by my own experience of this design which was indeed first produced by Merloni Electrodomestica or Indesit Company as it now called. I have owned one of these machines for the past eighteen years, no doubt the design has since changed ownership. What age were you in 1987 when I first bought my 4 paddle washer?

All the best.
Hugh

 

[foraloysius]

Hugh,

What machine did you own from Merloni Elettrodomestici?

I was wrong about this machine I guess, I didn't pay any attention to the number of paddles in the drum. I thought I recognized the door as an Ariston one. Seems to me it is indeed an Antonio Merloni machine. Still not 100% sure though. LOL

Louis

 

[spiraclean]

Hi Louis,
The one I bought in 1987 was a Thor 820; the Thor brand at that time was owned by Merloni Electrodomestica as was Ariston and Indesit. I also have a Philco Bendix Autowasher 800 which uses the same cabinet, tub, drum and motor, the Bendix model however has a 2300 Watt heater as opposed to the 1850 Watt heater in the Thor, the Philco Bendix machine also has a different timer and vastly superior true thermostatic wash cycles (Temperature was time controlled above 30ºC in the Thor). It is confusing though as this design has appeared wearing many different fascias and badges over the years and always budget machines, truthfully I don't know who owns the rights to this design now.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[gizmo]

Just to add to the confusion - I was under the impression that Philco was not part of either of the Merloni groups, but was independent - Philco Italia was the company name, they made Bendix and Thor. Here in Aus Bendix and Thor were clones, then Bendix Australia almost disappeared as Philco ceased making washing machines and they started sourcing machines form elsewhere - apparently one of the Merlonis... In New Zealand they were sold as Philco brand, not Bendix or Thor.

Chris.

 

[spiraclean]

Philco Bendix

Hi Chris,
You are correct Philco was never to my knowledge owned by either of the two Merloni companies. I use the term Philco Bendix as my 4 paddle Bendix was made prior to the Bendix brand being acquired by Electrolux group, at that time the Bendix brand in the UK was owned by Thorn EMI. Only two UK Bendix washers were of the 4 paddle design the Bendix Autowasher (500 RPM spin speed) and the Bendix Autowasher 800, all remaining Bendix models were made in Italy by Philco.
I hope this clarifies things a bit.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[newwave1]

Ahhh the old philco bendix's! great machines my aunt had one. spiraclean-can't say i've seen a four paddled one b4?! have u anyway of postin a pic? shame there very basic now electrolux own them.

Darren

 

[spiraclean]

Hi Darren,
My 4 paddle Bendix is not a Philco made machine it's a Merloni Electrodomestica made machine and total rubbish compared to the Philco made Bendix washers. I will certainly post a picture of it the as soon as I can get near it, my Mum has the Garage filled with furniture she is storing so I can't get near a lot of my collection.
I totally agree the Philco Bendix washers were great machines, they were superbly quiet very reliable and washed and rinsed beautifully in deep water, they even featured a pre fill to prevent detergent loss and an end of cycle fluff to prevent creasing.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[gizmo]

I'm a fan too of Philco Bendix washers, I scavenged one in Kew, a suburb of Melbourne, it had nothing wrong except the paint had yellowed with age. Kew is a pretty posh suburb so I guess the poor old Bendix just wasn't yup enough any more. It went to live with my Mum for a few years till a switch fell to pieces and gave her a tingle. It did a great job and was quiet and fuss free. The timer dial was just a pointer, you pressed a switch and the timer clickety-clacked around, you released the button when the dial pointed to the cycle you wanted, then pressed the "start" button.

Interesting that in the UK they were sold by Thorn - Thorn TV's and fridges were sold here. Mum's Bendix Autowasher (W40??) had a silver control panel with a small matching silver disc stuck on, it looked like a blanking cover. It eventually fell off, revealing the Thorn logo, like a vertical spike. The Washers were distributed in Aust by Healco, and there was a division of Thorn-EMI called Healing (over here at least). (Thorn and Healing TV's were identical inside but had different cabinets). So I suspect that the two companies had shared parentage but by the late seventies they were separate and Bendix products had to cover up the Thorn logo.

Chris.

 

[spiraclean]

Thorn EMI Philco Bendix

Hi Chris,
Yea I just love the Philco Bendix washers, I have quite a few in my collection. the oldest is a late 70s Autowasher De Luxe 7147PB 800 RPM Spin, next is an Autowasher De Luxe Electronic 7133 800 RPM spin, then an Autowasher Electronic 1000 De Luxe 7168 and finally an Autowasher Electronic 1000 De Luxe 71258. The 71258 was the last of the Philco Bendix washers and was the last Bendix with an Electronically controlled Induction Motor. I just loved the start button which advanced the timer on the 7168; the cycles started at the Bio Wash / Pre Wash - Main Wash - Rinse 1 - Rinse 2 - Rinse 3 - Spin - Pause - End. The washing rhythms, times, temperatures and spin speed were selected automatically using Program Selector knob which listed ITCL programs 1-9 (Incidently the Program Selector knob did not move during the cycle). They are without doubt my favorite UK front loaders from the 70s to 90s. I can't wait to get them connected and running again.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[newwave1]

Hey Hugh!
is the drum the same as a "lovely" servis...i use the term loosely i do not like them 1 bit! lol. those philco-bendix washers were so good. brings back memorys of when i used my aunties. off topic slightly...its a shame that servis got taken over. i'd love to have seen what direction they took there washers..they were certainly innovative. i liked the old quartz's. anyhoo...

gotta go 2 work

Darren

 

[spiraclean]

Servis Quartz 1000

Hi Darren,
Yes it is the same drum as the 4 paddle Servis washers, and I agree I don't like them one bit either.
Yea the Philco Bendix washers were definitely great machines, I am so pleased to have a number of them in my collection. You might also be interested to hear I have a fully working as new Computer Controled Servis Quartz 1000 Model 602 which was jointly developed by P&G. I is a shame though to see Servis one of the oldest UK washer manufacturers fall into foreign ownership. I was also very sad to see Hoover UK being taken over in 1995 by Candy.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[newwave1]

Hey Hugh!
i dont c how those drums can b any good the paddles r so flat! wen i had one & it only had a few items in they used to bobble along the bottom...& not get lifted. was ruuuuuuuubish! wow u have a quartz!!!! now im jealous! i was jst sayin to jon on msn, i wonder what hoover washers would be like now if they weren't taken over!? i bet they'd still be great & really innovative as they always were i love my logic..can ya imagine a logic 2005? lol it'd be awesome! why does it always have to be the good ones! *sigh* my next find is an old electrolux! same as in the pic i've attached. i'm on the hunt 4 one. i love how much water they use!

Ta ta!

Darren

Darren

 

[spiraclean]

Hi Darren,
I totally agree the 4 paddle design is particularly poor with small loads I have seen that effect where the paddles just slip below the load with no tumbling, totally useless.
Yea I have a delicious Servis Quartz 1000 model 602 it's the one with the modified SpinCare™ drum the riveted ones that did not split, I really love it because it does deep washes and rinses. I also have a Servis Slim Line 308s which has similar styling to the Quartz but its timer controlled and much more basic.
The machine in the picture you have attached was the first Electrolux washers produced after the Electrolux Group acquired Industries Zanussi; it is completely Zanussi mechanicals and was built in the Zanussi plant, they were actually quite good machines but they were noisier than earlier Zanussi machiness due to their changing from Induction to Carbon Brush Motors. I am sure there are a few of them still around, also the Zaunssi washers of the same period had exactly the same cycles and water levels.
I have often wondered myself how Hoover would have continued to innovate, I honestly believe they would have been one of the best selling UK brands with modern efficient and best of all British designs but I guess we will never know.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[Bearpeter]

and the Whirlpool Washer dryers!!!

We just got rid of a Whirlpool Washer dryer circa early 90/91. The paddles were very shallow for some strange reason. Then, before we got rid of it, we tried to have the dryer part fixed. The mechanic said these and a lot of other lesser makes of washer dryer were made by...... you guessed it.... SERVIS!!!!!! 4 paddles and pathetic cleaning results!
Suffice to say, we got rid and invested in an AEG! are we looking back over our shoulders in reflection of a choice ill made??????? ARE WE BUFFALO!!!!!!

 

[newwave1]

Hey hey!
Spiraclean-i'm totally jealous that you've got a servis 602!!! my mums friend had a servis 308 that was pretty good! & they had a computer controlled model! i forget the modelnumber...my uncle had a zanussi from the same sort of period too. which he got rid of for an intergrated diplomat SERVIS washer dryer. which is terrible as u'd imagine! i cannot belive theres a £500 servis washer on the market atm which uses the same damn drum!! how aweful is that!

bearpeter-did u find your whirlpool was the same as i described-that with a small load the load used to just bobble along the bottom of the drum!?!

ta ta!

Darren

 

[spiraclean]

Hi Peter,
Yea I remember that 4 paddle design carrying the Philips-Whirlpool brand in 1989 and in 1990 the name Philips was dropped and they carried the Whirlpool brand alone. Thankfully Whirlpool did not continue selling that design for long, no doubt due to its poor reliability. I believe it was originally offered to fill a gap as none of the Philips designs were available as a Washer Dryer.

Hi Darren,
Yes I am amazed to hear that myself, that 4 paddle design is long since past it’s sell by date and should be allowed to die but I guess it’s all down to economics. Yea I am so glad I have the Servis Quartz 1000 model 602 I even have the hand book, it’s great to have this machine in my collection as it was the first Computer controlled washer in the UK, and the fact its electronic controls have remained in perfect working order for almost 20 years is testament to the quality of the original electronic components. It’s a shame about the though that the drums split so often in the original model 600 the warranty claims were just to much for Servis to bear and led to the company going out of business and ultimately to Servis a once great British brand falling to foreign ownership.

All the best.
Hugh