My neighbor had a mother raccoon and three babies make a home in her chimney. She waited until they were old enough to climb out, then had a cover put on while they were away. My chimney has a cover that can be opened if using the fireplace. The chimney needs repaired, so it hasn't been used for many years.
Time For a New Furnace
- Thread starter Chetlaham
- Start date
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Then the homeowner should install a screened chimney cap to prevent such issues.
Almost, if not all furnace brands have a ten year parts warranty. Some require registration for the second 5 years. They do not come with a labor warranty, only what the installer provides, or you can purchase extra. 20 years on the heat exchanger is also standard, some have lifetime. But the labor will kill the deal.
This is what we use for out 95+ furnace to keep out critters and insects:
https://pvcventscreens.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopUAklmcRr05VfdSovPzs5HEFaPkaQBMk6C4sxvoUX04tto5vE3
Our neighbors use nothing, only issue they have had is wasp nests. They love those pipes.
And to the other poster what extra maintenance does a 95+ furnace require? I'll tell you...NONE.
2 weeks ago I had a new metal roof installed. In the middle of the night, things were falling off my fireplace mantle. Went back to sleep and the next night, same thing. I got up in the middle of the night, turned the lights on and there was 3 flying squirrels on the rafters. Next morning I got in touch with an exterminator who came the next day and set traps and by the next morning they were caught. He said the old flashing around the chimney was loose enough so they squeezed thru it to get into the house and trapped in with the new flashing.
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My neighbor down the street put insect screen netting held in place with hose clamps on his direct vent PVC pipes. I've been meaning to do the same for 15 years but keep pushing it aside LOL. I've never had anything big enter my furnace but I guess it is only a matter of time before I am kicking myself.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Those chimney caps are not expensive, and are good insurance against critters invading the chimney.
The cost of having a servicer come out to repair the heater or clear the critter stuck in there would be substantially more expensive.
They also make them for the air vent pipes that are part of the sewer lines like the toilet, sinks, etc.
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You're preaching to the choir here
In all seriousness I need to get them installed on my pipes.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
You're preaching to the choir here
In all seriousness I need to get them installed on my pipes.
What I can't figure out is- and perhaps again its entirely due to overly zealous listing standards- why they can't make a 95% gas furnace which works like a gas dryer or oven and without any electronics.
Basically the furnace I imagine in my mind has an inducer blower that starts via 24 volt call for heat relay. Once the inducer pics up speed this causes a proving pressure switch to close energizing a high inertia hot surface igniter and one of the primary gas holding coils and one of the primary gas assist coils. The glowing red hot surface igniter then triggers the radiant sensor to open energizing the secondary main coil allowing gas to flow into the nozzles to become ignited by the hot surface igniter. When the radiant sensor opens, this drops power to the hot surface igniter.
The flame heats the heat exchanger, and when the body of the heat exchanger plate becomes hot enough a 140*F thermostat closes energizing the main blower's heating speed.
Once the call for heat ends power is dropped to the gas valves and both the inducer and blower run until the heat exchanger cools.
Some what ifs:
If for what ever reason the flame drops out while burning, the radiant sensor cools down thereby closing its contacts back in. This deenerigzes the secondary gas valve coil and re-energizes the hot surface igniter to repeat the ignition cycle. In that time the inducer will run long enough to bring fresh air into the heat exchanger and combustion system.
If there is brief power drop out and re-energization causing the flame to drop out before the radiant sensor closes the primary section of the gas valve will not open because the assist coil must be energized first to allow such, and for that to happen the radiant sensor must first cool and close to re-start the ignition cycle.
If any over heating occurs, any flame roll out occurs, or if the pressure switch opens due to poor air induction, the entire gas and ignition system will shut down due to hi-limit thermostats and the pressure switch being electrically in series.
This system would result in zero semi conductors and very few operating relays while providing superior protection.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Jeez, Chet!
That description of operation makes my brain spin!
You know I prefer things simple, direct, and reliable, but that ladder of operation seems too complex with all its "this happens, then that happens, which then triggers another happening." etc etc etc.
Additionally, I have to say that the use of semiconductors in design is not a bad thing, as long as the designer is highly qualified to insure long-term reliability.
That depends on on staying with proven designs, and also saves the manufacturer from lawsuits and litigation, and secures their reputation.
When you're dealing with potentially dangerous products, like a home heating system, etc., it's imperative. - people's lives are one the line.
Unlike a washing machine and how they've been building them lately.
Keeping things simple of course, lessens the chances of a failure, along with the expenses to correct said failure.
With all those sensors and triggers and mechanics you've mentioned, it's sounding a bit overdone complexity to me.
That Honeywell electronic ignition system that I installed that's been controlling my boiler for 18 years has been reliable, with flawless operation - and gives me the peace of mind that I expect from it.
It even has the ability to tell me if and when it senses any problems by the way of the LED blinking codes.
Which never happened yet.
Of course I'd have to get out the owners manual's troubleshooting section to read what the codes mean.
And the Honeywell thermostat that I installed inly needs it's 2 AA batteries replaced rarely - it's display warns me with "low battery" and gives me plenty of weeks to install new batteries.
That description of operation makes my brain spin!
You know I prefer things simple, direct, and reliable, but that ladder of operation seems too complex with all its "this happens, then that happens, which then triggers another happening." etc etc etc.
Additionally, I have to say that the use of semiconductors in design is not a bad thing, as long as the designer is highly qualified to insure long-term reliability.
That depends on on staying with proven designs, and also saves the manufacturer from lawsuits and litigation, and secures their reputation.
When you're dealing with potentially dangerous products, like a home heating system, etc., it's imperative. - people's lives are one the line.
Unlike a washing machine and how they've been building them lately.
Keeping things simple of course, lessens the chances of a failure, along with the expenses to correct said failure.
With all those sensors and triggers and mechanics you've mentioned, it's sounding a bit overdone complexity to me.
That Honeywell electronic ignition system that I installed that's been controlling my boiler for 18 years has been reliable, with flawless operation - and gives me the peace of mind that I expect from it.
It even has the ability to tell me if and when it senses any problems by the way of the LED blinking codes.
Which never happened yet.
Of course I'd have to get out the owners manual's troubleshooting section to read what the codes mean.
And the Honeywell thermostat that I installed inly needs it's 2 AA batteries replaced rarely - it's display warns me with "low battery" and gives me plenty of weeks to install new batteries.
Actually Chet, what you describe is complicated and is why modern furnaces have electronic controls. Also the electronics make the high efficiency possible and enhance the safety of the equipment.
Chet, what kind of engineer were you? It sounds like you could be an electrical engineer, who did you work for and what products did you work with?
Chet, what kind of engineer were you? It sounds like you could be an electrical engineer, who did you work for and what products did you work with?
What I am describing is used in most gas clothes dryers and is exceptionally simple in comparison:
Nothing in the law of physics stops such a scheme from being stretched into a residential furnace. If society was ambitious enough to pull off the Lennox Pulse, they can do this.
Looks complicated, but it is only 3 coils, a hot surface igniter, and a radiant sensing thermostat.
A single stage 92% high efficiency furnace can technically run without any electronics. All you need is to energize the shaded pole blower, energize the 120 volt AC hot surface igniter for 45 seconds, open the 24 volt AC gas valve, de-energize the hot surface, and then energize the across the line blower. Flame sensing and pressure switch inputs along the way of course.
Jeez, Chet!
That description of operation makes my brain spin!
You know I prefer things simple, direct, and reliable, but that ladder of operation seems too complex with all its "this happens, then that happens, which then triggers another happening." etc etc etc.
Well, in order to a gas furnace to fire safely, or in the very least a residential gas clothes dryer, those are the bare minimum steps that must happen in exact sequence and seize should anything go wrong in the process to prevent fire, explosion or worse.
The beauty here is that what I am describing can and is accomplished via a simple series parallel circuit without the use of a single semi conductor. And, if anything failed like a solenoid, hot surface or radiant sensor the gas valve simply will not release gas.
It is so simple compared to a complex microprocessors with pages and pages of boolean and fuzzy logic like in so many appliances and high efficiency gas fired equipment today.
Additionally, I have to say that the use of semiconductors in design is not a bad thing, as long as the designer is highly qualified to insure long-term reliability.
That depends on on staying with proven designs, and also saves the manufacturer from lawsuits and litigation, and secures their reputation.
When you're dealing with potentially dangerous products, like a home heating system, etc., it's imperative. - people's lives are one the line.
Unlike a washing machine and how they've been building them lately.
Guess you haven't seen my furnace. It puts what I describe to shame
If you can do the same without or fewer electronics, why not do so? 80% efficiency furnaces were just relays, solenoids and bi-metals.
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Originally, my Crown Aruba boiler had no electronics.
The thermostat initiated the 2-stage gas valve's internal pilot-sensing, and when it confirmed that the standing pilot was lit, it opened the main gas valve.
Upon the thermostat's end of calling for heat, it would then shut the main valve.
This design's been around forever. - the standard "millivolt" system.
I just didn't like having a standing pilot burning 24/7/365. thus my reason to replace it with the upgraded system. - Which incidentally was standard in the more expensive boilers.
I already have a standing pilot burning in the hot water heater, which I'm not going to mess with. since the water heater's only 5 years old and still under warranty.
Standing pilot lights were and are beautiful. I miss them. So much less to go wrong. There was a point when a basic Comfort Maker furnace would last you 30 years without repair. I also miss the heating and cooling systems sold by Sears Roebuck and Co.
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