TL vs FL washer

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Heaters in Washers

Are slowly going away. Even now, machines that have them are getting cooler and cooler hot limits. Detergents will have to get better to keep up, but it is happening...

Malcolm
 
I don't think so.
LG swapped out most of their steam generators for washes at 65°C (150°F) or simmilar on the US models.
Everybody still offers Sanatize cycles without Oxi and they need at least 140°F, if not more.
Washers with heaters can be found further down the line today.
And even TLs now get heaters.
 
>Could you just unplug the dryer and plug the washer into the dryer outlet, then when the wash is done, plug the dryer in?

>LOL - I know that isn't very practical, but I guess if you have easy access to the plugs, you could.

More practically, perhaps someone could create an adapter of some sort. Perhaps an adapter that creates 2 outlets out of one. Or perhaps the washer could have a plug that is like Christmas tree lights. Plug it into the dryer outlet, and plug the dryer into the back of the washer plug.

However, there would be problems. The big one is that I'm guessing it would only be safe running one appliance at a time. And the washer and dryer would need to be close to each other. They usually are, but I've seen plenty of setups where the dryer is located away from the washer. Indeed, my current laundry room is such a setup, although I think a cord from a washer could still reach the dryer outlet. But I have seen at least 2 basement installations where the washer is quite a distance away.
 
Asko

If a person has an Asko pair, the washer just plugs into the back of the dryer...and you can use both at the same time.  I don't have a pair...my dryer is a GE gas one.  I don't like electric dryers.  Gas does the same job for much much less $$$ in this part of the country.  And it's my understanding that our electricity is cheaper than most other parts of the country due to TVA.
 
Nope.

Heaters are a dying fad my friend.
Sanitary temp went from 170 down to something like 130 in a couple of years. Soon, sanitizing will be chemically handled, not thermally.
It is coming, accept it.

Malcolm
 
I use the sanitary cycles for rugs,bath towels,sheets and pillows. Once in a while,my running shoes. Otherwise,hot or warm wash,cold rinse.
 
My 2 year old Duet, Sanitary is 155 to 158.  Mark, Allergen is what heats to 130 degrees.  It has an NSF certification, but different than the 155 degree sanitize certification. 
 
Malcolm, I hope not all models will have that end result.  I hope they'll still offer one model with the heating capabilities. 
 
I wouldn't be surprised if heaters disappear from dishwashers entirely as well. Ironic, because I've always been told that it takes less energy for a dishwasher with a well placed/well performing heating element to heat the small amount of water than for the water heater to be set to 140+ to have the same effective temperatures.

In my opinion, chemicals are an aid, but shouldn't be relied on entirely for effective cleaning. Any chemicals that are meant to replace natural heat, water , and time can't be good for skin or our environment.
 
If the washer and dryer shared one outlet, manufacturers could programm/sync the appliances so that the dryer won't start until the washer has finished heating - or the dryer could run on a lower heat setting while the washer heats.

I don't think heating elements are on their way out... but they might be replaced by alternatives like heat pumps. V-Zug already has a dishwasher that combines both heating methods and can still run a full cycle (2x wash, 2x rinse, dry) in 43 minutes if needed. They also have a washer with heat pump and regular heater.
 
140 Tank Heat

Will be gone sooner than you think, too. Replaced by tankless water heaters. Tank heaters are already being banned in many areas. The Eco-police will get their way, you'll see.

Malcolm
 
It's scary but true.  I think Malcolm is correct.   What's next after that.  No more heating elements on stoves. Raw uncooked food is more efficient. :-)

 

That may be a joke, but actually it is scary to think about hot water being a thing of the past.
 
Most older homes in the US are heated by steam or hot water radiators. All of these allow for a hot water coil to be installed as well. Cold water is piped into what is essentially a radiator that is suspended in the tank of the boiler. The now heated water flows out to the rest of the house.

In the winter this saves energy as one is heating the water in the boiler anyway to heat the house. In the summer it's less efficient as one has to turn on the boiler to heat up a large tank of water in order to take a shower. even when other types of heating were used, the notion of heating all one's hot water in one place remained, hence large water heaters.
---------------
Perosnally, I'd lean toward a FL. However, were I to go with a TL, it would HAVE to have a manual adjustment for load size, an internal heater, and both 'sanitary' and 'allergen' cycles to ensure that both hot and warm washes are actually available.

Jim
 
When was it EVER 170F?

Having a ten year old FL washer, mine heats on Sanitary to the 150s F. I thought the newer Duet/Maytag's etc temp went down to 130, but appnut just said that was allergen, not sanitary....So my ten year old duet and his 2 year old Duet have the same sanitary temp. If that's true, then it didn't go down.
 
240V for washers.I know of a man that had TWO 240V outlets run in his garage for his woodworking power tools.A 15A outlet for his table saw and a 60A one for his planer.I would think if it could be done for tools--why not a washer?The washer would have its own outlet and line-so bote washer and dryer could be used at once-same with the woodworker-he could have someone using the saw at the same time the planer was used.The tools came in handy--he replaced the tile floors in his home with wood salvaged from a barn and a mill.Its very nice!
 
I live in an all-electric house.  I doubt there's enough total power coming into my house to support the added voltage needed to support what's already here plus add what's needed for a tankless electric.  Cost a freakin fortune with an electrician.  what if I didn't have the money?  My kwh/month consumption went down when I got my Whirlpool EnergySmart water heater in 2003 and I can control the temp up to 160 degrees. 

 
 
@appnut

Did your electrical consumption worsen or improve with the arrival of your FL machine, and frequent high-temperature washes?

(Only curious. Ours went up, Cold fill Miele. Our previous TL was cold-only, hot tap wasn't working, never repaired. Hot would be free for us, if it were fitted)
 
Here in California, given our drought situation, most people buying new machines choose a FL because they save water. We don't have the luxury of using 2-4 times more water per load. They take longer to do a load than a TL, but most of the time is recouped by shorter drying times, since the load is spun so much drier by the FL. So the total time to wash AND DRY a load is somewhat less with a FL.
 
 
Askolover, it'd be interesting to read but the link you provided doesn't work for me.  I went to the source site and clicked the article link there, still doesn't work.  Several links there don't work.

I don't think tankless *electric* water heaters will ever become the unit of choice due to the large instantaneous current demand they pull.  Electric utilities like steady loads so they don't have to keep a lot of reserve capacity available.  Gas tankless units are fairly popular.  They also pull a large gas draw but that's generally less of a concern/problem than a sudden uptick in electric amperage draw.

That being said, I do like my electric tankless (which I didn't choose, it was already in the house I bought).  It's small, wall-mounted, requires no venting, and can produce heated water at any temp from 50°F to 140°F for as long as the water runs.  I keep it set at 102°F (which helps keep the electric demand draw down) for showering, adjust as needed for washing clothes or occasional hand-washing dishes, dishwasher has on-board heating.
 
In the USA when Miele was selling 220V washers they had a plug so that you would plug the washer and the dryer into the same thing. My machine is older so there is no such thing as a sanitary cycle. Instead you have cycles by fabric type(cotton, perma press, delicates, wool, silk,jeans, dress shirts) and then within each cycle you select the temperature you want to use. So on Cottons the temperatures you can select are tap cold, 105F, 120F, 140F, or 190F, other cycles have different ranges. The model before this one had more selections in the cottons cycle. I don't really care if things are sanitized that much but I do have one load that is done at 190F. Other than that I use 105 - 140F. 140F only on cottons and not all the time so usually 120F is my norm. The thing I like about 220V is that I can do a pre-wash in cold water and have it gradually heated to warm so that stains can be treated, the other thing is that it is fast...no long waiting around for the temperature to rise. I also read someplace that 220V is actually more efficient that 120V so in energy terms you are using a little less than if you did the same cycle at 120V.

 

The only other thing about my model is that chlorine bleach is not allowed to be used in it because it has a solid stainless steel outer drum, so I guess it's 190F if you want to actually really kill anything.  I am holding on to this thing until it cannot be fixed.
 
Regarding TL's...

I don't think I was a little too vague in my earlier post. One must differentiate among top loaders. There are 2 basic types.

1. 'Old fashioned' (i.e what we grew up with) with an agitator and user selected water levels.

2. HE machines, with a rotating washplate at the bottom. to my mind these fall into 2 groups;

a) Fully automatic, load sensing machines in which the user does NOT select the load size or water level. I'm not aware of any that have a recirculating spray of wash water. It seems to me that most people who hate HE TL's are talking about this group. ALL of my previous negative comments about HE TL's referred to this group.

b) Very similar appearing machines that allow a person to select load size and/or water level. Many of these also have a recirculating spray. Just my opinion, but I think most people who are happy with their HE TL's have this type.

Until very recently I was unaware that type 2b even existed. I just want to make the distinction in case others are unaware as I was.

I WOULD buy a washer like 2b if I read enough positive reviews, but there's no way I'll ever spend my money on a 2a.

As always, if I've gotten something wrong, PLEASE correct me!

Jim
 
Group 2a

HE top loaders with recirculation are available from Whirlpool, Maytag, GE, Samsung, Fisher & Paykel and probably others. The one big brand without this feature would be LG. Instead, these washers use WaveForce (if so equipped) to throw water over the load as the drum spins during the wash ->

http://https//youtu.be/cwbJ-5bEO1w
 
Vacbear

The link was to waterheaterrescue.com

When I click on it it works and my Norton didn't kick it out.  I've been reading that site for years without any problems.  I don't know what the trouble is. 

 

DaDoes - I just now went to the site and clicked every link and they work for me.  Who knows what's going on? 
 
Bleach

Asko says bleach isn't "recommended or required" in my machine, but I've been using it for 18 years no problems...and it has stainless inner and outer drums.  No crud build up either.  I can take the paddles out and there are large access holes in the inner drum to retrieve any items that may have gotten in between.  The outer drum is still shiny all the way around!
 
Without beating this thread to death...

My 2004-vintage GE toploader consumed 180 litres of water per cycle. 90 litres every single time the tub filled. If a second rinse was selected, it would consume 270 litres of water.

Comparing that to my Huebsch, it normally consumes about 83 Litres of water per cycle. About 90 litres if I select an extra rinse.

So, therre is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the operating costs of a front loader are certainly lower than that of a traditional Non-HE top loading machine.

What I can't understand is why there isn't more traditional top loading machines which have spin cycles which match that of front loaders. (Not counting the old Fridgidaire machines) The LG and Samsung HE top loaders will reach what, 1200 RPM on a high speed spin?

Another thing I thought I should mention is that ever since I switched to using a front loader, my clothing isn't getting ripped or torn anymore. My GE top load machine seemed to hate my comforter slips (Maybe this was just user error) and occasionally would rip one of my shirts, despite the short stroke agitation.

The debate on FL vs TL has been going on a while in this forum and it is a hot topic which has been discussed numerous times. On this forum, it could almost be considered a "religious" matter. :-)

Realistically? IMHO I'm glad I switched to using a front loader. My biggest beef about it is that when loading it, clothes tend to fall out until I lightly pack them in. Ideally, my perfect washer would be a European style top loading H-Axis washer. (Think of a front loader, but with the door being on the top.)

It is a shame they don't sell them in Canada.. and I've heard lots of negative things about Staber washers, so in some ways I'm glad I didn't buy one.
 

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