To pre-rinse dishes or not to pre-rinse...

[gelaundry4ever]

dishwasher usage

Appnut, it seems to me that your mom didn't use normal or pots and pans, depending on what she was washing. I also doubt that she used high temp wash or heat dry if options were available, or even use Cascade detergent or rinse agent. It was probably how she loaded it.

 

[maytaga806]

John, my model does claim to have a food chopper. The “Piranha Hard food disposer” they call it. Do most manual cleaning filter machines have these or this exclusive? I’ve never had a machine of this variety before so I assumed that’s why the filter stays so clean considering how much I run it. Maybe this is something new they did for the GE model.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...b5k0F8DOiQoM3fNOV05Y_Z1KhTumCNZAvX9hptFbP6U97

 

[gelaundry4ever]

to maytaga806

I am curious about that too. It seems that most have either one or the other, except for GE who has both.

 

[Chetlaham]

John, I hate to make a conditional statements, but I'll go outside my lines and say Whirlpool, Maytag and others would have never gone to the trouble of adding fine filters to their machines if a plain old pump and macerater was enough.  You must have never used a BOL GE DW. Your dish loads are always in WP power clean machines, which are in a class of their own. Nothing can come close in terms of water filtration, particle disposal, self cleaning, and dish clean-ability. I also take it you've never seen a BOL GE DW drain with the door open which I've done... The water drains faster than the particles suspended in the water can keep up.  

 

Any reputable appliance sales man will tell you if you want spotless dishes to stay clear of BOL and some MOL models.

 

[combo52]

Reply number 61

I can’t imagine any purpose that that played does as the water has already gone through the ultrafine filter before it goes into the main wash pump, so I’m afraid I’m gonna call it a gimmick.

Reply number 63 hi Chet , I have used and worked on and assisted people with more of those basic GE dishwashers than you have ever seen, as I said, they’re not the best design, but they will get rid of particles and they will get dishes clean if they’re loaded properly GE literally sold millions of those dishwashers and while probably half the people rinse before they put dishes in the dishwasher about half do not, and we’re quite satisfied with the performance, it’s too bad you and your mother did not learn to use the dishwasher properly.

John.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

my bosch built kenmore

My Bosch-built Kenmore does an amazing job cleaning dishes. If you open the door quickly, you will get sprayed in the face. That is how powerful it is, even at normal speed. Even with the Cascade packs which do suds, it barely even slows down. The filthiest dishes I've put in it so far was a mixing bowl full of blueberry pancake batter. I mainly use smart wash and turbo clean. I can also tell that the dishes barely have anything on them after the first rinse, yet the water is filthy. I will have to continue to play with it some more just to see how else I can challenge this machine. I did use normal once and it did just as good.

 

[Chetlaham]

Selling Millions

Of course! GE was aimed at builders and landlords, which there are many. Its not how well the machine works, its about securing a sale in an cost conscious buyer. Those who tried their first DW in an apartment, builders home, or had cost driven buying learned to pre-wash.

 

 

But its becoming a moot point thankfully, manufacturers have finally started adding a fine filter on even their BOL machines. Something that should have occurred in the 70s. They even had the room to do so in the sump (think 70s plastisol GE DWs).

 

[gelaundry4ever]

apartment dishwasher

My dishwasher is in my apartment and it's not like any builder grade model.

 

[Chetlaham]

Lucky!

 

I wish they made a builder's grade WP power clean module. Same pump and tub but a single none delay start knob labelled heavy/normal/light (or PotsnPans/Heavy/Normal) with a heated dry on/off rocker.  4.5 gallons of water for the Light (Normal) cycle for clean-ability that even the modern tall tubs can't offer. This is really this is what the market as a whole has always craved.

 

Its so ironic though. BOL Whirlpools in the 80s had a vertical pump design, and so did Hotpoints/GEs up until the late 1960s. All they had to do was wrap a stainless steal fine filter on the upper part of the pump body. Clean dishes, 1/4 the water used and a happier user. But sadly someone somewhere along the line lost their mind.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

pumps on my Kenmore dishwasher

I believe the pumps on my Kenmore are horizontal. They do pack a punch because you can hear water flying everywhere. If there's a con about this dishwasher, it's that there's no real heated dry. I do however use the dry assist option which raises the temp of the final rinse and extends the dry time. It's basically a quasi heated dry. Back to the pumps, they sound like a bldc driven dual pump system. It's the quietest I've ever heard.

 

[Chetlaham]

IMO, the best dishwasher pump is vertical in nature. The drain impeller in power cleans and Jet Cleans is absolutely the lowest point of the pump body and whole machine itself water wise. Literally below that you have the water seal. There is not even 1 cup of carry over. Add a purge and you've got a totally clean pump with no meaningful amount of dirty water. All other pumps will have some degree of carry over, even those with a separate aux drain pump. There will always be residual water below a horizontal impeller and in the sump housing. 

 

Further, the same winding that starts the motor in wash can be revered to set the pump in drain mode. One asset maximized for two functions, actually 3 when you take food grinding into account. And no weak sauce shaded pole or 35 watt permanent magnet torque, you've got 2-4 times more torque before the start winding drops out than the listed 1/3 HP. 

 

IMO the Power Clean and Jet Clean is by far the best water saving mechanism ever produced exceeding even modern tall tubs in efficiency.

 

I'm not a fan of machines without a heated dry, but then again if Power Cleans with their 150*F final rinse had a blower like Kitchen Aids and older Maytags it could be pulled off with less energy in whole than a heated dry.

 

Power Cleans were not that loud either, Kenmores came with a harmonic motor ball, glued on sound dampening panels on the tub and door liner and IIRC chunky insulation around the motor/toe kick area. 

 

Modern tall tubs are more quite though, but I don't like them for many other reasons.

 

I'm glad your Bosch Kenmore is working out for you. Do you have pictures of it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gelaundry4ever]

pictures

I wish I had pictures, but I don't. It does, however, have a turbo clean option.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

model#

The model# is 630.13902011. I'm sure there are pictures online.

 

[Chetlaham]

[No message]

 

[combo52]

Filters in Dishwashers

You could not place a filter in the sump of an older, GE dishwasher that all the water went through without having the most disgusting unsanitary dishwasher probably ever built.

So much food and garbage would accumulate in just one load that it would stink to high heaven if not cleaned immediately the rents water would be filled with dissolved solids, and the glasses would not be sparkling, etc.

Chet i’m sure somebody at GE thought of your idea and tried it was rejected immediately for these reasons.

All dishwashers that have a filter attempt to self clean the filter the majority of The stuff rinses down the drain every time the machine drains you can’t keep the food in a dishwasher and expect to have clean dishes.

In any dishwasher if you have food particles left behind in the bottoms of classes, etc. you’re not loading the machine correctly or the machine is not functioning correctly many companies, GE D&M Frigidaire, waste king, Thermidor, and many others did not have any type of filter, and they performed satisfactorily. Yes, having a filter does reduce water usage somewhat because the particles can be trapped and flushed away reducing the volume of water needed. However, dishwashers with filters usually worked a little better, but they didn’t use any less water.

John.

 

[Chetlaham]

If it is as bad as you claim, then design a dual port sump like on modern machines- course filter in the center of the pull out for the drain pump, fine filter on the outside of the pull out cylinder for the wash pump. Anything would have been better than forcing people to pre-wash.  

 

[combo52]

Chet don’t be ridiculous, nobody was ever forced to pre-rinse Consumer Reports never pre-rinsed dishes for the hundreds of tests. They did a Dishwashers, and they generally came out quite clean.

Self flushing filter could’ve been used, there’s certainly no reason for me to design one they’re already use.

A lot of consumers don’t like modern dishwashers like Bosch because of the stinky filters.

That’s why premium dishwashers today do not have the filter that Hass to be removed and cleaned.

John

 

[Chetlaham]

Have a look at the title. Not everyone was blessed with a power clean. I'll take stinky filters any day over labor and wasted water.  

 

[launderess]

The Freedom Maker!

 

[wayupnorth]

I had that exact model in Harvest Gold too. It did clean everything perfectly. Pros- cleaning ability, roto rack blasted everything clean, Cons-12 or 22 minute heated dry which was not needed as no air dry was offered. After 22 minutes, hit cancel-drain, timer would reset, open door, spin roto rack and once dishes were not too hot, put them away. Screws on the bottom of the door wore holes through the porcelain and it leaked.