Top load washers in the USA

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F&P and Simpson/Electrolux still have traditional style machines that follow the same build/configuration we've had in AU since the mid 80's. We dont build them in AU or NZ anymore though, they all come from Thailand.

Full fill, Long Stroke machines with top suspended baskets have been the norm here for 30 years. In the last 10 years since the severe water shortages up the eastern seaboard, the frontload machines really gained traction for the first time. During the 80's and 90's FL machines were mainly limited to Hoover, Miele, Bosch and Asko with some low volume imports from the UK and Italy.

The other reason that TL machines stayed the norm here for so long, was we had trade tariffs applied to imported appliances and it wasnt cost effective to retool the plants to build FL machines. Hoover spent the most money on modernizing their designs and was the first to fail, the rest of the machines stayed basically as they had been since the early 80's until production moved offshore.

Top loaders persisted even in units/apartments as all of our dryers were designed to wall mount above the washing machine, so stackability was never a requirement.

Australia also has had central hotwater systems as the norm since the 70's onwards, and as Louis said, its fair easier to keep 100L of water hot without a heater than it is to keep 20L hot.
 
I wonder why 97% of British households have a washing machine (and 60% have a dryer) whereas in the USA the figure is much lower at only 85%.  Perhaps the reason that tens of millions of Americans are living with no washer at home is because Euro FLs are easier to accommodate despite many European homes being smaller on average than the equivalent home in the US.
 
Many parts of the USA have very old (rental) housing stock

As such cannot accommodate washing machines in each unit. New York City comes to mind.

There is also a large number of urban households (New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc...) where again for various reasons individual apartments do not or cannot have laundry appliances.

This does not mean many have to do without, as it is common in multifamily housing to have a central laundry room equipped with washers and dryers.
 
When places say "no" washing machine, they mean just

*LOL*

There are plenty of offerings past and present from Miele, Asko, Malber, Creda, Hoover, Danby, etc... that will work in confined/limited space NYC apartments. Thing is they either have to be smuggled in and used on the sly, and or hope other tenants won't rat you out.

There have been cases of persons purchasing an apartment with a washer and dryer, only to find out the things were illegal and the co-op or condo wants them removed.

Avanti, Panda, Laundry Alternative and others that sell mostly made in Asia stuff do a brisk enough business here; people just want to avoid going to Laundromats.

Being as all this may apartments both new construction and older buildings are getting the message. People consider a W&D as much a necessity as a dishwasher. Lack of one or the ability to install can and has been a deal killer.
 
Top Loading Automatics In The US

First of all we invented Front Loading Automatics in the late thirties, Top Loading Automatics in the early 40s and FL Combination washer-dryers in 1952 in the US.

 

Because our first FL washers were not as good at cleaning as an agitator style machine and were more prone to leaking at the door TL automatics took off. The orignal Bendix machine with its compact size tub and WHs silly slanted tangling machine just could not clean as well as an agitator washer, and I am sure that the excellent preforming WP-KM TLing automatics had a great deal to do with TLing automatics dominating the market here for so many years.

 

It was not until the combos started to arrive on the scene in the mid 50s and WH redesigned their FL washer in 1959 that Americans had a top performing FL washers available, by this time TL automatics were firmly preferred in the market place.

 

Top Load washers were NOT cheaper to build or inherently more reliable. Also many other countries also had mostly TL washers, much of south America, Canada, Australia and France until about 30 years ago to name a few.

 

Overall in today's market I prefer FL washers, BUT top load washers still out sell FL machines in this country, also new TL Hi E washers clean, rinse and spin extremely well and are generally rated as well as the best FL washers.

 

John L.
 
Things have just really really changed in the last decade. I also think that Sears had a great deal to do with the reason that whirlpool is king now too. Kenmore washers used to be the cheapest to buy that you could get. Sears always had an incredible sale on them and in the 60's especially, one could be had for just a little over $100. No one else could touch them in that respect. And they were good machines too. I truly believe that IF Frigidaire had perfected their washing technique and eliminated the tangling from the start, things might have been different. They started out as one of the first to come up with a non bolt down automatic machine. If someone bought one of the early machines that tangled clothes into knots they usually NEVER bought another one again and cursed the day they bought that one! It really damaged the reputation of Frigidaire. After all, Frigidaire was already known for their refrigerators and had an advantage.
 
A side note about France. They had TL washers, but they were mostly of the H-axis type, so frontloading action with a lid on top. Reason for their popularity is the smaller footprint in comparison to a frontloader. And that makes quite a difference in the very small (bijou!) but oh so expensive Parisian apartments.

The only V-axis machines I saw in France were American (mostly commercial Maytag) machines on camp sites. Never came across a V-axis machine in a private home.

Here's a video from our French friend, it's a Brandt toploader.

 
A horizontal axis top loader

makes loading and unloading less of a bend.
Fisher and Paykel sold some dryers here in the states like that, but no US maker has ever made one.
 
Miele videos in #28

Amazed at total lack of rollover in the white round body model in the last video in the post. I'd hope that the engineer that designed that agitator got fired. And why did Miele even let that go to production, unless it was something marketed strictly for delicate washloads.
 
The best agitation

in my opinion was the dual action from Whirlpool which ratcheted the upper section. It pushed the load down with a screw prop action, while the bottom provided the roll over. Of course, the earlier "super surgilator" did well on it's own too.
Todays low water use top loaders have what they call a blooming effect.
Flowers and roses bloom. I want my garments clean without holes or tears in them.
 
I've had my Oasis-Cabrio for a year and a half now and have yet to find a single tear or snag in any of my clothing, and that's with primarily fully loaded basket fulls. It blooms beautifully and everything comes out cleaner and rinsed better than I've had from any traditional machine, even the Lady K belt-drive. If the well designed HE top-loaders are causing fabric damage or aren't cleaning well, it's because they are not being used properly.
 
Well, i can answer that...

First: nobody "forced" manufacturers to do that.

It's a matter of market needs x market expectations x cost.

Let's compare US and Europe and the US and Brazil, so it can help you understand a little bit better.

Us had top loaders (low water and energy efficiency machines) Bu tthe US didn't have to worry about the natural resources and the resources were cheap. Why bother? Why waste a fortune on R&D and production, why make the washer cost more?

Europe: Since decades ago, several european countries were desperate because of natural resources. Many of those countries have to import electricity (and some of them even water) from other countries.

Brazil: It's the middle term among them. Brazil is super rich when we talk about natural resources. The Brazilian water is abundant and great (super soft) and up to sometime ago it was cheap. But the country economics is a disaster, so the manufacturers needed to discover different solutions. Top loaders were the standard, as the first washers were imported from the US, but then with the high cost of utility bills, people started to ask for efficient alternatives. Front loaders and HE top loaders would be a reasonable solution an american engineer would think. but then we have the laws... Front loaders not only cost more but they are on a different category of appliances and the taxes are higher, making them absurdly expensive for a consumer that doesn't have much money, but still have tons of laundry to do.
HE top laoders would be reasonable, but the Brazilian culture wouldn't accept it because the brazilian detergents must be like suds bombs. Omo, the most popular detergent brand is almost like fire supression foaming agent. Add 1/4 of scoop of it in a HE top loader and you'll have a disaster. (Whirlpool launched the Brastemp Vantage there... it was absurdly expensive and it was a disaster with brazilian detergents.

Solution: different washers.

It also has to do with the cosmetic design. Living here in the U.S. i can understand it much better.

In europe, many people have the washer in the kitchen. a front load is the best solution because of it's compact size and stylish design that matches the kitchen cabinets.

In the U.S. the washer and dryer are almost always hidden in a laundry closet or basement, why bother? The machines are square boxes, boring at certain point.

In Brazil, most homes and apartments have a laundry room and they are fairly big to have the washer, maybe a dryer (not too popular in Brazil), a cabinet to store cleaning products, the vacuum cleaner, and ironing board and even drying racks. (Some of you might remember i had over 10 washers in my laundry room and it was open to the balcony/barbecue grill in my apartment.)

As the washers are visible instead of hidden in a closet and also the cultural "show off" thing Brazilians have (Yes, Brazilian housewives are proud of showing off their washers to their friends just like some men here in the US are proud of showing off their lawn mowers and garage tools to other men) so the manufacturers had to spend fortunes to make the washers look like modern art sculptures. It's impossible to deny the modern Brastemp, Electrolux and Mueller washers have an interesting design. They're not "square metal boxes".

The same thing wouldn't work here in the US also because of the laundry habits. The brazilian washers are smaller than american ones. (only now they are getting bigger). Because the average Brazilian housewife loves to do laundry almost every day, sorting everything (a load of white sheets, then a load of white clothes, a load of white underwear and socks, everything again for light colors, then everythign again for dark colors and then the blacks, kitchen towels etc) while the average "American Housewife" is super busy and do laundry once or twice a week, tossing as much as possible in the washer (whites with dark colors with underwear, kitchen towels, the couch, the dog and if it would fit, even the husband).

I saw my roommate tossing a full load of mixed clothes, plus kitchen towels and a pair of sneakers all together in the washer. I almost fainted when i saw that. Even worse, it was in MY washer.
 
Thomas,

I see two assumptions in your message, that are not correct.

1. Older frontloaders were far from frugal. My mother's Miele W423 from 1975 used 150 liters of water for a 5kg load of laundry. That's very much like American toploaders from that time I bet. Electricity usage was quite bad too. They didn't fill all the way up to the top but they used more water than modern frontloaders. And with all the boil washes we did, the electricity meters spun very fast when doing laundry.

2. Washing machines in the kitchen is not a typical European thing. You only see that in the UK but in the rest of Western Europe it's very rare to have the washing machine there. Bigger houses have utility rooms, in smaller houses and apartments the washing machine is often in a bathroom.
 
I want to add/correct some information here that might clear up some of the questions asked.

Louis, yes, older frontloaders were not as frugal as the current ones. Still, of the 150 liters of water, how much was hot/heated? If I recall the machines my European neighbors brought with them, only prewash (optional) and main wash were heated, the rinses were cold. Meanwhile, American top loaders used to use 60-80 liters for the main wash, then another deep rinse in warm and we're not even talking about the overflow/spray rinses. It wasn't until the 70's energy crisis that they set the default for a cold rinse. While the energy requirements fell, it's still hard to get a top loader to use less than 150 liters, and the newish HE top loaders still lag behind the frontloaders.

Thomas, Brazil had waves of different kinds of machines. Up to early 60's, most were imported (the only brand from that era that I've seen my neighbors owning that were *made* in Brazil, were the Mueller machines made with wooden tanks) -- we had Hoovers with impellers and twintubs, Brastemp started importing Whirlpool machines and selling them under Sears and Brastemp labels, parts for the Bendix rubber tub and tumblers were imported from US and assembled in Brazil, Westinghouse imported some parts and made/assembled Laundromat frontloaders until the early 70's.

By the 70's, a wave of "Brazil is the best country in the world, foreign people suck!" struck the country, unfortunately, so Bendix changed their brand name to "Karina", a lot of other foreign brands disappeared as the economy progressively tanked and then we had hyperinflation in the 80's. By mid 70's, Whirlpool (thru the Brastemp label) was one of the only manufacturer of washers and dryers in Brazil, even Bendix rubber tub washers, which by that time were the most popular machines, disappeared from the market altogether -- that's when Industrias Pereira Lopes, which manufactured fridges and compressors for Tecumseh, started making the Westinghouse top loader under license, by early 80's or so they got tired of people not being able to pronounce Westinghouse and changed their brand name to Lavinia. That was the heat under Brastemp's butt to make them bring their "new" models (which had been made in US since the 60's or so) to Brazil. Late 70's saw the demise of frontloaders in Brazil.

Early 80's also brought a manufacturer named Enxuta, which made a 2.5 kg front loading washer so basic that it had no suspension -- during spin, if the machine started shaking, a pendulum stuck to a suction cup (as a "delay device") would make the machine tumble for 5-20 seconds and try spinning again. They were cheap (as opposed to only inexpensive), and sold well enough for the manufacturer to introduce a 4 kg machine a year or so later, and then a washer with detergent and softener dispenser. Only after that, is that top loading washers in Brazil started offering a softener dispenser.

During the late 80's, Whirlpool started importing a washer made by their subsidiary in Argentina into Brazil -- a proper front loading washer that could heat the wash water and had dispensers for prewash, wash, bleach and softener. It cost less than any of the "traditional" top loaders in Brazil. It started selling like hot cakes when people found out how well they cleaned and how much cheaper to run they were. This model was essentially an English model of a Philips front loader made in Argentina and sold in Brazil under the Frigidaire label, which there was owned by Brastemp at the time.

Rumors we heard at the time was that all hell broke loose at the CEO levels at factories like Brastemp, Industrias Pereira Lopes (Westinghouse) etc. Finally the truth came out: frontloaders which use just belts and vary the speed of the motor are *way* *way* *way* cheaper to make than top loaders with any significant kind of transmission. That could not stand, people need to make a profit, so the the Frigidaires sold for about 3 years and disappeared, only to come back under some other label but much more expensive than the toploaders. Just like dryers, which are cheap to make but cost as much as a top loader, all the frontloaders in Brazil (which at the early 90's or so included Bosch, under a Brazilian label I space out at the moment, Consul or Prosdoscimo, perhaps?) were introduced as "luxury" items because they heated the water and had dispensers. Even some top loaders started being sold with built-in heaters. Competition at the time was the only force that made Whirlpool/Brastemp introduce their "Mondial" ("World Washer") model in Brazil.

By this time, frontloaders had disappeared from US too, it was very hard to find any by 1992 when I moved here. When they were re-introduced as High Efficiency washers, they were put on the market at a premium, and we were told "they cost more to make". They don't. Arranging for a new factory building or a new line is expensive, but there is less material and labor in each machine than any top loader you care to point to, *except* perhaps the mechanism that Whirlpool used with motion loss as a transmission for one of their top loaders, they may still be using that as a HE top loader, I haven't kept current.

On yet another hand, *both* here and in Brazil, there has always been a very strong campaign warning any housewife that cared to listen that frontolading washers will cause a flood at the drop of a hat. Never mind that accidents when the machines are actually used properly, as opposed to someone forcing the door open when the machine is full, are about the same rate that top loaders flood your laundry room -- in fact, many top loaders used the same material for their water bellows as the front loaders' boots, the only difference is that GE, SpeedQueen, Hotpoint etc machines hid the rubber boot out of sight under the tub. This campaign, as we know from insiders, was led by companies like Procter & Gamble and Lever Brothers/Unilever, when they noticed that front loading washers needed much less detergent than the top loaders at the time.

This, coupled with the fact that Tide became an instant hit and was high sudsing (thus not so useful in frontloaders) *and* Tide began an aggressive ad campaign of putting their box of detergent in all top loading washers for sale and claiming that the "majority of manufacturers approve of Tide" and heavily suggesting the manufacturer paid for the box, when in fact they gave the boxes away (and said so in small print), as you can often see in the picture of the day here, was what made Americans and Brazilians "prefer" top loaders.

A very similar thing (competition forcing improvements) happened in Brazil when it comes to detergents -- by the early 80's several brands completely disappeared: ODD (Orniex Detergentes), BioZima, all of the Henkel brands (Viva, Mago, Gigante Branco [Weißer Riese?] etc) until we had only Unilever brands (OMO, Skip, BioPresto, Minerva etc). By the mid-80's Skip and BioPresto disappeared, only to come back as OMO Maquina when the frontloaders were re-introduced in Brazil. For a time OMO Maquina was extraordinarily expensive and hard to find, and I heard that it disappeared for a while until Procter & Gamble entered Brazil and started selling Ariel. It's not something we talk about a lot when I visit family there, so I'm not current with the state of affairs.

Suffice it to say, that the market forces are not as clear as we want to believe, it's not just the clients, or the government or the appliance manufactures or detergent/additive manufactures, but a combination of clients that want a washer that cleans really well without a need for long soaks or annoying pre-treatments and they'd rather not have to pay a lot in utilities, manufacturers and governments that want incentives for technologies they already have and don't want to develop new stuff etc.

For example, several of the large appliance manufacturers in US, had in their technician training materials that top loaders were better because they don't flood the laundry area, this continued until they introduced front loading washers into the market. Tide was "high efficiency" and still foamed a lot until Henkel entered the market here with Persil, then 3 months later, as if a miracle occurred, they "learned" how to make Tide TurboClean (probably from the same/similar formulas for Ariel in Europe, which they make) and finally, after more than 60 years claiming that suds were good, they start harping about how suds make you need to rinse again.

The reason I keep hitting the same piano key here with our club is that I keep hearing the same "propaganda" (which is basically a mix of falsehoods and half-truths spread out by manufacturers and anti-government folks) over and over and over again. We need to stop this cold -- *no one* will look out for us end users but ourselves, the establishment and its servants only want profit because they see the *investors* (stock market etc) as clients, we are the products to be sold.

Please stop for a bit, think about what is going on.

Cheers all,
-- Paulo.
 
"well designed"

can mean different things to an engineer, a corporate production cost analyst, and a consumer.
Even my dental hygenist's Bosch has caused basket holes in clothing. I suspect it's when a heavy towel, or say a hoodie is on top of a more delicate article like a T shirt, forcing it against the basket during high final spin.
Now, a T shirt being a sturdy cotton fabric as well, you wouldn't use the delicate or low spin speed cycles. So, when my stepson throws a load in, and doesn't care that it is all piled on one side of the basket, or over loads it, then that is incorrect use.
What I described above is not.
Even the old top load direct drive side motor mount "shredmores" as some call them didn't do to clothing what some quote "well designed" newer machines do.
They are designed to "shred easily" after 6 to 8 years of use by a recycler at an energy star recycling plant. Then re smelted into a new appliance, etc.
Some energy star rating, as it takes more energy in natural gas, electricity, etc. to make another appliance more often.
Carry on.
 

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