Tornadoes

[dalangdon]

Rapunzel, the debate happened thirty years ago. You missed it.

There's broad consensus in the scientific community that climate change in happening - even Bush admits that. There's also consensus that human activity has contributed to it, if not caused it outright, and that we need to take some corrective action.

It is a "real factual issue", and the trouble is that billions of taxpayer dollars have *not* been committed to it. We hem and haw, largely due to corporate controlled scientists and right-wing media personalities. These folks are the moral descendants of the scientists Philip Morris employed a generation ago to tell us that smoking was good for you, even though the company knew it was dangerous.

You're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe - no one is "shouting you down", and if you imagine that you're somehow "standing up to me" (when we're merely having a disagreement) that's your right. But there's no need to act like a victim just because someone challenges an assertion you made.

 

[rapunzel]

Science is about facts. Politics is about consensus, which is where a lot of people, even some scientists, seem to get confused about this issue. Btw, 30 years ago they were also talking about global cooling. If there is a right wing conspiracy to keep the truth from us, there is also a left-wing conspiracy doing exactly the same. For your info, I don't belong to either camp. As I pointed out before, the message sucks because the premise on which it is based is largely nonsense.

Now, if you know more than I do, go forth and claim the money - it is a legitimate competition and yours for the taking. All you have to do is reach out.

Cheers

 

[dalangdon]

Rapunzel, I did a little research into your contest. I found this interesting information about the contest's sponsoring website (junkscience.com)

According to sourcewatch.org (a project of the Center for Media and Democracy) junkscience.com is....

"A website maintained by Steven J. Milloy, an adjunct scholar with the Cato Institute and the Competitive Enterprise Institute - right wing think tanks with long histories of denying environmental problems at the behest of the corporations which fund them. Milloy is also a columnist for FoxNews.com."

The article goes on. I thought this was interesting:

"Prior to launching the JunkScience.com, Milloy worked for Jim Tozzi's Multinational Business Services, the Philip Morris tobacco company's primary lobbyist in Washington with respect to the issue of secondhand cigarette smoke. He subsequently went to work for The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), a Philip Morris front group created by the PR firm of APCO Worldwide."

and there's this:

"Although Milloy frequently represent himself as an expert on scientific matters, he is not a scientist himself. He holds a bachelor's degree in Natural Sciences, a law degree and a master's degree in biostatistics. He has never published original research in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Moreover, he has made scientific claims himself that have no basis in actual research."

Somehow I don't think he'd be the best person to fairly judge who should win $150k for that proving global warming exists.

The entire article, with references and footnotes, can be found at the link.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Junkscience.com

 

[pturo]

OIL AS A DRIVING AGENT TO OUR ECONOMY has made us helpless and vulnerable to the politics in the Middle East. If we import no oil from that region, let them throw sand at each other, they will have no economy, and US intrests will treat them the same as we care about Bangladesh or Ruwanda or Cuba. Do you think if Cuba had billions of gallons of oil, it woudl not be s suburb of Miami by now. They are an evil empire that has nothing we need. A few schekels for charity, but we can't control the whole world. WHEN OIL IS OUT OF THE EQUASION, THE MIDDLE EAST IS OUT OF THE EQUASION, SO LETS DISINFRACHISE THESE PEOPLE BY NOT BUYING OIL IF IT COMES FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. I need product labeling on my gas pump, I wanna know where the oil came from. I get it at Macy's when I buy a T-shirt, made in China. I want choice in what country I support when I buy gas, and I want disclosure.

 

[sdlee]

maybe its just me but........

.... I resent losing the Ozone layer just so we can have Pam

 

[dalangdon]

Let me guess....

Was that Lilly Tomlin or Gilda Radner. I know I know that from somewhere.....

Damn that Sarah Coventry!

 

[rapunzel]

Thank you for all that information dalangdon

Aha, Milloy holds a bachelor of natural science and master of biostats? Who knew, he actually has a brain. So what qualifications did Al Gore bring to climate change? That's right, he is a media-savvy lawyer/politician with money and connections in Hollywood. I also read somewhere that the Center for Media and Democracy was a left leaning organization bent on discrediting conservative writers. Now, ask me if I actually give a stuff.

Fair dinkum!

 

[dalangdon]

...and back to my original point about Ostriches and facts.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Anytime someone resorts to the old "Hollywood Elite" argument, I know it's time to pack up my knitting and move on. But just remember: We're all in the same boat on this issue. We can't afford to get it wrong. Wouldn't the conservative approach be to do everything we can to make sure we aren't doing permanent damage to our environment? Wouldn't it make political sense to ween ourselves from oil and clean up our coal powered power production?