Totally UnAppliance Related But... GM To Cut 25,000 Workers

[peterh770]

Toyota fan for life here. My last car was a '90 Camry. It was getting ready to die (throw a rod) with 257,000 miles on it when I traded it in for my RAV4. When the guys on the used lot were looking at it, they told me it was made at the Toyota plant in Kentucky. Then they told me that if it was an actual import from Japan, I would have gotten another 100,000 miles out of it easily.

 

[toggleswitch]

Saturn

I have a Saturn as well. It's GM in my book. Next time I will want a 6-cylinder with a stick and my only option that I am aware of is VW.

Not too keen on the Saturn ION anyway with the dashboard in the center of the car, should I decided to stick with a 4 banger.

Oh and I told the people at the dealership upon picking it up, if you dare fuss and embarass me with a pic and a send-off you can sitck the car right up your tailpipe. LOL. Got out of there quietly, with just a polaroid. LOL

 

[dalangdon]

GM Issues

I don't think the unions are to blame for GM's woes - they have been as good as they can be, and have made plenty concessions. They do, after all, have to be concerned with the workers first and foremost.

I think that it's poor management that is so concerned about their stock options that they refused to invest in innovation and research. GM's cars all look like variations on Hondas to me.

I know that certain aerodynamic principles and safety regs have led to the homogenization of car styling, but there has to be some room for creativity. GM wasn't interested in exploring.

 

[kenmore1978]

Kentucky built Toyota

" When the guys on the used lot were looking at it, they told me it was made at the Toyota plant in Kentucky. Then they told me that if it was an actual import from Japan, I would have gotten another 100,000 miles out of it easily."

Except that the car may have been made in Kentucky, but the engine was still built in Japan, so there shouldn't be a difference engine-wise. In any case, 257,000 is damn good.

 

[tolivac]

Employee discounts?

On the Yahoo homepage-found a little "blurb" of an add that GM is offering "Employee discounts" on any new car(except Corvettes and some trucks)they make.The spot was saying --"The first time employee discounts offered to the public"Guess they are desparate to sell their vehicles.Sounds like they haven't been "moving" out of the dealers.I am a Toyota man.any Toyota car I have used has had no major problems-contrasted to someone I know who had a '92 Cadillac and he had nothing but problems with it.mostly the AC would go-the car went thru several compressers.I have seen one go myself in another freinds caddy.Blew on a 95 degree plus humid Wash DC day.Both of the fellows no longer own GM products.

 

[ironrite]

GM is doing some deep discounts. Over the weekend I went with a friend to a local Chevy dealer. Now this may be Sin City, but all the car dealers are closed on Sunday, that's usually when you'll find a ton of people looking at the cars, without being hassled.

A Silverado pickup 2500 series, crewcab, diesel, fully loaded for around 33K, list was around 43K. Now, even with my Ford employee discount, I couldn't get a loaded F250 diesel for that price, so they really are knocking down the prices.

 

[drmitch]

Listening to NPR yesterday anouncing that Toyota would be rasing prices on their cars to try to lessen the impact that imports are having on GM citing that further deteration of GM might have negative influence on import trade. On the light side, my dad(who doesn`t smoke) was playing with the ash tray in his Park Avenue while wating for mom at the grocery and broke the mechanism that holds it closed. GM service wants 125.00 to fix it! I`ll hotglue it!

 

[petek]

I just checked the Bloomberg news site to check that out. It's a bit confusing, Toyotas ceo said in April they MAY raise prices slightly to give GM & Ford some breathing space. But the Toyota spokesman says there no formal policy on price increases. The Asahi newspaper reported they are. So it's a wait and see I guess.
Honda has no intentions.
It certainly doesn't bode well for GM & Ford.
The US govt would have to be extremely careful if they tried any restrictions or tariff increases, after all Toyota and others are manufacturing a big percentage of their N.American cars in the US. Toyota certainly is not "dumping" cars on the US market, an illegal practice, they charge more for them already.
And what's the consumer to think if they did or Toyota did it themselves, that they're being charged extra so that GM and Ford can continue to manufacture mediocre products?
A big can o worms.

 

[westytoploader]

Wow Peter, 257,000 miles is not bad at all! Toyota and Honda have always had a reputation for being reliable based on the April CR auto issue...I don't think any of the Ford/GM vehicles we've owned ever made it past 150K before new problems arose, really...

In other news, I wonder how Ford is doing lately? One of my main gripes with them that's not a problem with any GM vehicle are the "baseline" engines they're fitting their trucks with. I had absolutely no idea that the V6 in my '98 F-150 would be so ridiculously underpowered until I had to drive to College Station...talk about a nightmare (0 to 60 in 16 seconds--literally)!!! And this is the 5-speed version so I wonder how much worse the automatic is, though many automatic F-150s already come equipped with Triton V8s. At first I thought it was because I was still used to the GMC 350-CI V8, but I have never seen such crappy acceleration in my life...don't attempt to pass anyone while driving one of these! There's really not much choice now, however, I'm definitely going to search long & hard for either a "100% road-worthy" Chevelle wagon (in full glamour, the best-looking station wagon ever produced, IMHO) or Eldorado convertible at the end of this year or when I've accumulated enough $$$ to contemplate looking for another vehicle...

Gotta love that vintage,

Austin

 

[kenmore1978]

Sales

Was looking at a graph in the business section of the L.A. Times that showed how the market share of the big three had changed since 1984. It showed that Ford was down, too, but not nearly as much as GM. GM has gone from 36% share to 25% shsare, whereas Ford has gone from a 23% share to a 19.5% share. I forget the figures for Chrysler, but they've gained a bit, not including Mercedes-Benz

 

[launderess]

Mercedes-Benz

Just isn't what they used to be.

Time was one had to really have made it to afford a Mercedes, and the quality showed it. Today some models are just about.... well enough said.

Last year witnessed a minor fender bender; rather ditzy looking woman driving a C class MB (and speaking on her cell phone), rear ended the car in front. The bumper on the Mercedes simply fell off, while the other car had no visable damage what so ever.

Ford and GM have many problems, and it is going to take some painful adjustments to bring themselves into the 21st century.

Tell you one thing, Ohio and other Mid-West/Rust Belt states are going to rise up in civil war if much more of this manufacturing jobs cutting keeps going on.

Launderessss

 

[tolivac]

thats sad that MB cars are going downhill as well-guess it could be due they are related to Chrysler?I rode in a Chrysler "Baretta"believe that is what it was-and the thing was falling apart-and it was brand new-like someone at the factory didn't tighten the bolts before it left the plant.Sad!
I too have concern about the losses of indutry and maunfacturing jobs in the US--What are people here supposed to do???and how will they get the income to buy cars,homes,appliances???

 

[Kevinpreston3]

Tolivac--good points

I have a hard time with so much manufacturing dependencies on other countries, particularly China, which is Communist!

Not everyone has the skills to be a "white collar" worker, or the desire, nor should they. Some people want to build things, to see things put together at the end of the day. Stating that we can't do this for a reasonable price is short sighted and will hurt the country in the long run.

I miss being able to buy name brand appliances and not even doubt that they were built in this country in their entirety.

 

[tolivac]

Job losses in Mid-West Rust belt states

You can see the deteriation of the job markets in the Michigan Area if Michal Moores Movies are true-he does have a point on the job losses.Thats the only thing I agree with him on.
anyway--the job losses are in other areas too.My job could be affected as well.some folks think that short wave broadcasting is obselete--to people in the USA and Europe,Britan-that may be true. -SW broadcasting is still used and needed.Cuba,South America,and Africa.The broadcasts from the place I work at go to those areas.One of the more precious appliances folks have in those places may well be their SW radio.Its useful to people here as well-you can get a different veiwpoint on the news from the overseas stations.the state of NC where I live has been affected by job losses and migrations to overseas--Textiles,car parts,and electrical parts.There was a Square "D" parts plant near Raleigh that is closed.The state is trying to reverse the situation.

 

[48bencix]

Rear Wheel Drive

If I want a rear-drive car, I have to buy a Cadillac if I want GM, or Corvette, or Pontiac GTO. I don't want a two seat car or to spend that much. Oddly GM (Holden) makes many rear-drive cars in Australia. Even inports one to the USA and that's the GTO. Australian cars are right hand drive, but Holden exports left hand drive to Saudia Arabia and South America, so I could get a rear-drive car in I moved there.

This is just dumb. I realize that many love there front drive cars, especially in the snow country. Here in California and the south there is really no reason for it, and it's a given that rear-drive handles better. Chrysler got it spot on with the 300 sedan and Dodge Magnum wagon. Even with their large V8 engines they will get better mileage than a tall vehicle like a SUV of the same weight.

I really think GM and Ford will go through Bankruptcy to shed their pension and health care obligations, it's probably needed to compete with the rest of the world. And with their designs, I just hate the Ford Five Hundred, I think perhaps they want to .

 

[dalangdon]

Moore/Maytag

I'm a huge fan of Michael Moore, and have been ever since "Roger and Me" first came out. Sure he exagerates a bit, but no more than his polar opposite - Fox News ;-)

I can't imagine what these job losses are going to mean to the towns that the factories are in. We've already seen the "safety net" practically shredded as it is - it might drive some of these towns literally out of business.

I keep wondering what will happen to Newton (Iowa) if Maytag goes under. I don't know how much of their operations are still based out of there, but that used to be a total company town, and a real cute one at that.

 

[tolivac]

The only Michael Moore programs I can agree with him on are "Roger and Me" and the "Big one" both programs about job losses in the US-esp industrial areas like Michigan.I don't agree with him on"Fairenheight 911" and "Bowling For Columbine"Ohterwise he is entertaining.
didn't Maytag used to own a cheeze manufacturing facility? I remember mentions to "Maytag" cheeze operation.
I can under stand how a vehicle of the same weight can get better mileage than a SUV or Van style vehicle-the large tall body presents more wind resistence._more energy needed to force it thru the air.

 

[jaxsunst]

Back to GM

I always had imports because my family always owned GM's, and I guess it was my rebellion. After a nightmare experience with a Volvo S70 (engine blew up at 156K miles, I did ALL the maintenance at the dealer). In one year that car cost $5K in various repairs AFTER the engine replacement. I love it, but....

GM is a client of the company I work for, and we get the GM employee discount. I bought a 2004 red Chevy Malibu LT-V6, as loaded as they come for $20K after the discount(sticker was $27K I think). I've had it for a year and 33K miles and it has only had one warranty repair.

My wife drives a 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan and it has 187K miles on it. We just put a transmission in and it keeps going. She loves it and will drive it until there is nothing left.

I used to feel good about buying American for the last couple of cars. But now, do I buy a foreign car that employees American workers, or an American car that out soureces its part to foreign companies?

 

[brisnat81]

Holden and Ford in AU

Hi Bencix48,

The Holden (GMH) and Fords sold in Australia have shocking reliability. The Electronics fail regularily in the new commodores (GMH Large Sedan) and the front end needs tightening up every 20K KM.

My 2000 model Ford Fairmont Wagon, has had electrical fault after electical fault, and I've been lucky so far that I havent had a transmission failure or blown a head gasket.

Getting these things fixed under my 5year 160K KM warranty is a challenge as well, the parts they fit are all remanufactured and usually are usually DOA.

I would never buy another australian built car ever. If the Ford lasts another 18months, I'll be buying a Toyota Kluger. If I have to rush out and replace it sooner, I'll swallow my pride and buy a Carolla.

Michael's mother has a 1985 Cressida in immaculate condition, with 250,000km on the clock and its never had any major engine or transmission work. The biggest expenditure to date, was just replacing all the radiator and vaccum hoses. Its a lovely car to drive and will well and truely see my car out. The funny thing is, that this is a Japanese car, from the days when they were seen to be suspect. How things change.

 

[48bencix]

Sad news about Holden

Hi Brisnat81,

I am sad to hear about Holden. I had this wonderful image of driving rear wheel drive cars with V8 engines in the Australian sun.
Of course imagination is different than reality. While "Japanese" cars currently are high quality, very soon China will be in the full-export mode, and with high-quality combined with ultra-low price, probably that's where most cars will be made in the not-to-distant fiture.