Toyota Prius

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jasonl

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My dad just bought a 2005 Prius that was a program car. I drove it to work today just to try it out. What a wonderful car! Almost everything in it is automatic as it comes. It has an automatic AC that switches fan speed, vent or recirc, floor vents vs dash vents. A true set it and forget it system. The gas engine is very quiet and starts and runs only to charge the battery or assist in driving.

My two complaints, the headlights aren't automatic, the stereo could stand to have more bass.

As far as the ride, it's good. Smooth, quiet, wonderful. You can tell it's a Toyota.
 
Jason, the Prius is like an epidemic at church. Everyone is getting one, and everyone loves them. I drove in a friend's Prius recently and it was roomy and comfortable and smooth and quiet. Just the opposite of my VW Golf! And great on gas. We are just about $3 gal. in Boston. Yikes! Go Prius.
Bobby in Boston
 
In my college town...

The Toyota Prius might as well be relabeled the "Toyota Ubiquitous", for you see them everywhere.

In my church's parking lot, there are I think about 4 now, and more to come. I really like this second generation much better. I'm also looking forward to the rumoured Camry hybrid.

Several friends of mine have the Prius, and I like to ride in them. Very comfortable, very quiet. In the summer, the air is louder than the propulsion.

The reason they have electric windows is simple. The electric window mechanisim weighed less than the crank system.

Jaquie loves to play with the display of hers, some days she has it set on Espanol, some days en Francais. Makes her sweet husband Willi nuts.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
I like it on the default energy consumption screen. It's really fun to creep through the neighborhood on battery power.

In the summertime (like today) the AC was very loud until it reached the setpoint. Not to mention the ROCK AND ROLL coming from the JBL system. I couldn't hear the propulsion at all.
 
The "stealth" mode of the Prius when it's on electic power reminds me of my old Honda Civic. The car didn't have power steering or brakes...too small to even need 'em. The car had sort of a stealth mode because you could push the clutch in, turn the motor off, coast, and still have full control over it.

That was a great feature when sneaking over to my girlfriend's house in the evening. Her house was located on a downhill slope. I would enter stealth mode at the top of the hill, stop at her house, pick her up, then coast down the hill before popping the clutch and firing the motor back up. Her parents would never even knew I stopped by to pick her up...they'd never hear me, even with their windows open!

I believe the Camry Hybrid is going to be built right here in the USA. Prius's are still built in Japan as far as I know. I wish they would increase the battery capacity of the Prius enough so that you could charge it off of an outlet at the house, and then drive it on short trips without ever buring gasoline. Still, a cool car for a electronic gadget freak like myself. Amazing how much space they've engineered into them. I've even heard rumors that New York is planning to use them for Taxicabs!

Do you have a TDI golf Bobby? Those get amazing highway mileage. The prius is most efficient for in-town driving, while the TDI VW's are efficient for highway driving.
 
Toyota Priuses and Volkswagen Jetta TDIs are really hot sellers here. In addition, The Daimler-Chrysler GEM cars are also hot for those who do a lot of in town non-highway driving. I want a Prius but want to wait a little longer to get one. My reason for this is that although these are exceptionally good cars for fuel economy, no one had really exclaimed any success stories regarding longevity, or reliability. We are already in an automotive world (for lack of a better term) where a car or truck can stall out because of a miniscule sensor or computer problem. How much more problematic are the computer brains of the new generation of cars looking to be. Another issue I have is that these vehicles have special parts including battery packs, and motors. How often do these items need replacement. While I so desire a vehicle that will not require a second mortgage to keep fueled up, I also do not desire a vehicle that will be a reason for my mechanic to be able to purchase a Mercedes, if you know what I mean. And anything like "after 75,000 miles you just trade it in" is not acceptible. What I am saying is that I would like to hear of any testimonials from anyone who has been driving and loving a hybrid for any length of time or who knows such a person. I have enough saved up I could probably buy one, depending on the hidden costs. Now the question to myself is, do I want to do that and let my 1997 Mercury Sable (which has hardly given me a stitch of trouble but only gets 23.5 MPG) go. Any input on this subject will be greatly appreaciated.
 
One more thing, I stand 6'8" tall, would a person of my size be able do drive one of these cars without doing the pretzel?
 
Cybrvanr, I have a 2000 BOL VW Golf, but I get close to 40 mpg. Not to shabby. And at $14K new, it was a lot for a little $, compared to other manufacturers. Knitwits, I didn't drive the Prius, but the passenger legroom was plenty, and I'm 6'1". I think you might be OK, but at 6'8", there ain't a lot of wiggle room! :-)
Bobby in Boston
 
I've read somewhere that in the 2008 model year they're going to have a next-generation Prius that gets 94 mpg.

Now if my present vehicle can hold out until then, and the new Prius is a hatchback or otherwise has decent cargo capacity...

The GEMs are cool but they lack one feature that is an absolute must in the San Francisco Bay Area: Solid door to keep out casual thieves and vandals.
 
Prius vs. TDI

Well, I can say that I have access to both. I own a TDI Bug and my dad owns the Prius but he's letting me use it. I can say from looking at the status screen, the prius gets about 50mpg hwy with the cruise on. That's comparable to my Bug which gets about the same with cruise. Really, the comparison is on ride quality and comfort. I still think the Bug wins for comfort. It's extrememly comfortable for long trips, but the Prius has a smoother ride.
 
In '04 when I bought my car (Malibu LT-V6), I looked at the Civic Hybrid (At the time there was a 6-9 month wait for a Prius). I really liked it, except for two things. You can't get it with a sunroof (a requirement for me), and I was told that the battery for the electric motor has to be changed every 80K miles. With my commute, that is 2.5 years. I was scared away when they wouldn't tell me how much the cost of that would be.
 
So far, the first generation Prius has exceeded expectations when it comes to reliability. This is something that is I guess expected of Toyota, since their reliability and build quality has always been above par. So far, I have not heard of anybody needing to replace their batteries. I imagine if they were a hot replacement item, they would also be sold at some of the third-party auto parts shops like Advanced Auto, Pep boys, etc. So far, I don't know of anybody who carries them outside of the dealer.
 
Those batteries aren't user replaceable. The mechanics at Toyota have to wear thick rubber gloves so they don't get shocked by the batteries. So I'm guessing it's a very high voltage being used. I don't think I would want to mess with that either.
 
I am considering a Peugeot 307 HDi Touring (station wagon). It uses a very sophisticated diesel engine, gets 4.3 litres per 100 km country, 6.3 city. That is a bit better than Prius in country driving, bit worse than Prius in city. Car is about $7000 cheaper than Prius. The Pug is very impressive but the seats are too soft, the driving position is strange and the wipers are still set for left hand drive, leaving a blind spot near the driver in RHD vehicles. Ride and handling are fabulous on winding country roads, slow speed ride in town is a bit harsh/jiggly.

I am also thinking about a VW Caddy Life, which is new version of the VW Caddy van due to be released here in a month. The Caddy is a small van based on the Golf. The Caddy Life is a station wagon version with seats in the rear, though it is still very van-like, something I am not too keen on. The Caddy has the VW 1.9 litre TDI engine, which is noisier and not as economical as the Peugeot. I have driven a Caddy van and I love how it drives but it was really noisy inside, lots of diesel clatter. I hope the Caddy Life has more sound insulation or I will buy the Peugeot.

Here is a pic of the Peugeot:

Chris.

http://www.peugeot.com.au/PEUGEOT/AU/me.get?site.sectionshow&FFFF1041
 
I love Peugeot's. My roommate in college had an '84 with over 200K miles on it. I used to love to drive it.
 
Is the Prius as Environmentally as it sounds

Hi Guys,

Our Quarterly motoring club magazine has arrived, and they have a long article discussing rising fuel prices, hybrids, hydrogen, LPG and CNG.

What they basically did in the article was rate the cost of a variety of cars per KM over the life of the car. This included the cost of manufacturing, fuel, servicing, maintenance and then disposal.

The figures they came up with were suprising.

Cars like a Toyota Yaris or a Honda Jazz and Golf TDI were rated at about $2.20 per km for the life the car.

A Larger car like a Passat, Falcon and Commodore were rated at about $2.90 per km

Where it go screwy and I could beleive it, was that at Range Rover was rated at about $3.50 per km (11mpg)

AND, the Prius was rated at $3.80 per km

What the point of the article was, was that car companies need to keep exploring the hydrogen option, as once you take into account the environmental as well as the manufacturing cost of 2 - 4 sets of batteries in a Hybrid its actually worse for the environment over the same time frame as driving a Large SUV.

I was gobsmacked.

Then I realized that what they meant was:

It takes just as much energy/resources/pollution to manufacture/maintain the batteries/generators etc in a hybrid as it does to drive an big SUV. IE the extra environmental cost in the manufacturing/maintainance is the same as the environmental cost of using the fuel.

In short, they're suggesting that Hybrids are a stop gap measure but over the lifecycle of the car are no better for the environment than an SUV. Bring on Hydrogen I say :)
 
The big time problem with hydrogen is the fact that it does not naturally occur. Hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy carrier...just like electricty. Many people get these two confused. For example, your dryer may run off of electricity, but it's energy SOURCE could be coal, nuclear, hydro-electric...whatever the electric company uses in your municipality.

Hydrogen can be made in one of two ways. One way is to extract it from an existing hydrocarbon fuel, like gasoline, natural gas, etc. This process is particularly inefficient, and still results in pollution, as the other components in the fuel are discarded (the carbon!) The other way to produce hydrogen is to electrolizise water. This too, is an inefficient process, as a great deal of energy goes in simply heating up the water when the electricity is passed through it. This method however does not produce much pollution where it's done. It does however require electricity...yet another energy carrier.

Perhaps the electrolisys method is the best way to go right now. Battery electric vehicles approach the 90% efficiency range with the electricity they use. Even if the electricity comes from a fossil-fuel power plant, it's still rather efficient, because the power plant can be upwards from 50%-60% efficient in converting the fuel to electricity. A gasoline automobile engine is in the 25% range. Like you mention however, the battries are the bad point, becaue they have limited range, and must be manufactured and disposed of. Lead-acid batteries are the most common battery of choice for most home-brew electric car people. Although they are heavy, they are cheap, and can provide lots of power. Oddly enough, despite the fact they contain lead, they are not that bad for the environment...they MUST be recycled, and recycling them is not hard.

Still, hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles may be the winner here because it will allow the vehicle to achieve the same efficiency ratings (if not more) as a battery-electric vehicle, and because hydrogen is produced using electricity, it can be rather efficient due to the power plant's efficiency. I don't think hydrogen though will really take off as a viable fuel until we can move our electricity production to renewable and "home grown" sources of power, like wind, solar, hydro, and even nuclear, and off fossil-fuels. This, however, stands a much greater chance than trying to make gasoline home-grown.

IMHO however, it's not what we drive, or where it's power source comes from, it's how often we do drive that matters the most. Automobiles get ZERO miles to the gallon when they are sitting still in traffic congestion, which is a major part of most American cities. There are simply too many vehicles on the road. It all stems from our poor development stratigies, which center around automotive transportation. We don't design communities where we can walk to stores and shops anymore, and we certainly don't factor in mass-transit either. As cities sprawl more and more away from their core, with low-density zoning, it generates more automotive traffic as people must drive longer distances to do their daily routines. While development is inevitible, we must think about the future, and I don't forsee the personal autombile being a viable source of transportation in the future...not only because of fuel costs and pollution issues, but because getting anywhere in one will be too much of a chore, and too slow and inefficient.

More fuel is saved by the SUV owner that takes the subway to work, than the Prius owner that drives to work!
 
Interesting Nat, a different way of looking at it. I wonder if someone else will do a study refuting that claim though.
There was an article in last weekends papers car section about how the mindshift has changed in the USA regarding Japanese cars where once so many people wouldn't buy on just because they weren't American made to today where the issue is all but becoming moot. Of course that has a lot to do with the Japanese foreign cars now being built in America and Canada and elsewhere people don't consider them foreign cars anymore.
I'm a little surprised that MB decided not to sell their Smart cars in the US what with the success of the new Beetle and other small cars like the Mini I would think they'd be a hit. They've been slowly making inroads here and I'm beginning to see them more often toodling around town. They remind me of those old Isetta bubble cars.
 
That next generation Prius sounds awesome. Now imagine if they could combine the 94 MPG and make it a flex fuel vehicle (meaning it could run on E85 ethanol) we could all but tell these oil supplying countries to kiss our a**. Because in the long run, I think that's what we all really want. 74 dollars a barrel is a steaming crock of s**t, and I think we are all fed up with it.
 
Amen, knitwits. I just went over to the Toyota site and noticed that the base price for these is $21,xxx. I had been led to believe that they were upwards of $30,000, making me think that something would need to be done about the initial cost before these good ever make an appreciable market penetration. $21,xxx is a bit more like it.

It's going to be fascinating to see where this all goes and how things pan out with reliability, costs of battery replacement and that sort of thing. I even saw a woman of at least 75 driving one one day, which I thought was great.

I intend to drive my 99 Mercury at least 5 more years, assuming it continues to look good and is reasonably reliable. Even then it will probably barely have 100,000 miles on it, and if gas is going to continue over $2 a gallon permanently my driving will certainly not increase.

I would never recoup cost or use enough fuel in 8 lifetimes to justify switching for no other reason than the technology; I'd do more damage to the environment probably putting another car on the road than what I'd save in fuel or pollution. But, it's different for a lot of other folks, and it will definitely be fun to see where we are with all this by the time I'm ever considering another car again, hopefully ever closer to independence on foreign oil, as knitwits says.
 
Well that all depends. If gasoline stays between $2.50 and $3.25 a gallon, the technology might not be a recoupable expense. But say the price shoots up over $4.00 a gallon (which is not impossible), the extra gallons will add up quick.
 
I am still enjoying my 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid-a talk with some of the Toyota techs here I found that so far they haven't replaced ANY batteries or motors or controllers in the vehicles they have sold from the dealer ship here.The Toyota Hybrid systems are incredible and highly reliable.If only other equipment could be made that way-the "motor" in both the Prius and Hylander Hybrids is what we could call a permenent magnet Sychronous device.It can work as a motor or a AC generator.And it can do those thing very efficiently. I love the idea of it working as a generator when you apply the brakes--The Toyota techs also commented they have not replaced any brake shoes in the hybrid vehicles-the motor does most of the braking.And that energy the "motor" generates goes back to the batteries.If onlt they could feed the energy back into the "system" in deisel electric locomotives--Look in that bubble or radiator housing on the roof of the loco and you see huge resistor grids to dissipate the braking heat.Like the hybrid--the loco's motors act as generators during the braking cycle.The hybrids do use some things from locomotive technologies.I really want to see the circuit schematic for the motor controller and bi-directional DC converter.I am going to order the book for my car to learn those things.Yes--the Hybrid circuitry is VERY dangerous to work on.The batteries in both the Prius and Hylander run at 288VDC.The output of the convertor is 625VDC-VERY DANGEROUS!!--but interesting.The bastteries for the Hylander are larger and have more capacity.The Hylander electric motor is larger--can develop up to 165HP!At some point would like to drive a prius and see what the experience is like.I am not disapponted with the sound system in my Hylander-it is truely hi fi-best I have heard.Great bass and doesn't need a subwoofer-the pedal notes in organ music come out very well-like the organist and organ are right in the car with you.I think the system is rated for 220W total.Toyota uses their own amps and CD,radio tuners for the units.Its a well designed system.Mine also has a cassette player-Its handy since I still have a lot of cassttes.It also has Dobly capacity.Its to the point I listen to music more in the car than at home.To some up-the Hybrid Hylander uses half the gas my older one did.Its a great car!
 
A local motorcycle monthy newspaper (City Bike) contained a column this month, where the author chooses to blast both SUV (specifically, Hummer) drivers and Prius drivers for being equally obnoxious. The SUV ding is obvious. But he also didn't like the smug superior air that he says Prius drivers exude.

Of course, he also admitted that motorcyclists tend to be the smuggest of all...
 
One of the thing that amazes me is that nobody makes the "ultra compact" cars anymore. I remember back in the 80's the Honda CRX got close to 60 MPG's on the highway. The Geo Metro got around 55MPG's too. Although neither of these cars were anywhere near as comfortable, they achieved the same fuel mileage. A CRX however was a pretty fun little car to drive (and rather quick too!) The beauty of these cars was that they featured old, inexpensive technology, so were very inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

Part of it I guess stems from government regulation. They continue to tighten the belt on dumb safety specifications, and on emission controls. What the heck is the deal with side-impace airbags? They propel the body in the same direction as the crash force?!?!?! Sometimes, and engine is not necessarily all that clean in a vehicle, even though it's efficient. The problem is that the pollution amount is based on the output power of the engine and the weight of the vehicle, not the overall amount of pollutants the vehicle delivers. For example, A Hylander Hybrid may discharge more pollutants than a CRX, and be qualified as a "clean" vehicle because it has upwards of 250 HP avaliable and weighs over 4000 pounds, where the CRX is rated as a gross polluter because it only has 55 HP, weighs in at only 1600 pounds, and puts out more pollutants per HP (and will drive circles around the Hylander)

I remember my uncle having a Buick Century from the 80's with an "Iron duke" 4 cylinder in it. Yes, the car was a little slow, but it was very roomy and comfortable. It would achieve almost 35MPG's out on the highway. You don't hear about mid-sized vehicles like this getting the good mileages that they used to. I was quite suprised to read that the modern-day Honda Accords can't even eke out over 26 MPG's. I remember the original ones getting almost 40 MPG's
 
I looked on some European auto sites. Micro-compacts are big there. Ford (an American company) has the Ka, and GM has some too, they don't sell them here. I think there would be a market, especially now. Also, the Smart is coming. It is a cute car with great safety ratings. A friend had one as a rental in England and loved it. They are not expensive either.
 
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