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Interesting Nat, a different way of looking at it. I wonder if someone else will do a study refuting that claim though.
There was an article in last weekends papers car section about how the mindshift has changed in the USA regarding Japanese cars where once so many people wouldn't buy on just because they weren't American made to today where the issue is all but becoming moot. Of course that has a lot to do with the Japanese foreign cars now being built in America and Canada and elsewhere people don't consider them foreign cars anymore.
I'm a little surprised that MB decided not to sell their Smart cars in the US what with the success of the new Beetle and other small cars like the Mini I would think they'd be a hit. They've been slowly making inroads here and I'm beginning to see them more often toodling around town. They remind me of those old Isetta bubble cars.
 
That next generation Prius sounds awesome. Now imagine if they could combine the 94 MPG and make it a flex fuel vehicle (meaning it could run on E85 ethanol) we could all but tell these oil supplying countries to kiss our a**. Because in the long run, I think that's what we all really want. 74 dollars a barrel is a steaming crock of s**t, and I think we are all fed up with it.
 
Amen, knitwits. I just went over to the Toyota site and noticed that the base price for these is $21,xxx. I had been led to believe that they were upwards of $30,000, making me think that something would need to be done about the initial cost before these good ever make an appreciable market penetration. $21,xxx is a bit more like it.

It's going to be fascinating to see where this all goes and how things pan out with reliability, costs of battery replacement and that sort of thing. I even saw a woman of at least 75 driving one one day, which I thought was great.

I intend to drive my 99 Mercury at least 5 more years, assuming it continues to look good and is reasonably reliable. Even then it will probably barely have 100,000 miles on it, and if gas is going to continue over $2 a gallon permanently my driving will certainly not increase.

I would never recoup cost or use enough fuel in 8 lifetimes to justify switching for no other reason than the technology; I'd do more damage to the environment probably putting another car on the road than what I'd save in fuel or pollution. But, it's different for a lot of other folks, and it will definitely be fun to see where we are with all this by the time I'm ever considering another car again, hopefully ever closer to independence on foreign oil, as knitwits says.
 
Well that all depends. If gasoline stays between $2.50 and $3.25 a gallon, the technology might not be a recoupable expense. But say the price shoots up over $4.00 a gallon (which is not impossible), the extra gallons will add up quick.
 
I am still enjoying my 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid-a talk with some of the Toyota techs here I found that so far they haven't replaced ANY batteries or motors or controllers in the vehicles they have sold from the dealer ship here.The Toyota Hybrid systems are incredible and highly reliable.If only other equipment could be made that way-the "motor" in both the Prius and Hylander Hybrids is what we could call a permenent magnet Sychronous device.It can work as a motor or a AC generator.And it can do those thing very efficiently. I love the idea of it working as a generator when you apply the brakes--The Toyota techs also commented they have not replaced any brake shoes in the hybrid vehicles-the motor does most of the braking.And that energy the "motor" generates goes back to the batteries.If onlt they could feed the energy back into the "system" in deisel electric locomotives--Look in that bubble or radiator housing on the roof of the loco and you see huge resistor grids to dissipate the braking heat.Like the hybrid--the loco's motors act as generators during the braking cycle.The hybrids do use some things from locomotive technologies.I really want to see the circuit schematic for the motor controller and bi-directional DC converter.I am going to order the book for my car to learn those things.Yes--the Hybrid circuitry is VERY dangerous to work on.The batteries in both the Prius and Hylander run at 288VDC.The output of the convertor is 625VDC-VERY DANGEROUS!!--but interesting.The bastteries for the Hylander are larger and have more capacity.The Hylander electric motor is larger--can develop up to 165HP!At some point would like to drive a prius and see what the experience is like.I am not disapponted with the sound system in my Hylander-it is truely hi fi-best I have heard.Great bass and doesn't need a subwoofer-the pedal notes in organ music come out very well-like the organist and organ are right in the car with you.I think the system is rated for 220W total.Toyota uses their own amps and CD,radio tuners for the units.Its a well designed system.Mine also has a cassette player-Its handy since I still have a lot of cassttes.It also has Dobly capacity.Its to the point I listen to music more in the car than at home.To some up-the Hybrid Hylander uses half the gas my older one did.Its a great car!
 
A local motorcycle monthy newspaper (City Bike) contained a column this month, where the author chooses to blast both SUV (specifically, Hummer) drivers and Prius drivers for being equally obnoxious. The SUV ding is obvious. But he also didn't like the smug superior air that he says Prius drivers exude.

Of course, he also admitted that motorcyclists tend to be the smuggest of all...
 
One of the thing that amazes me is that nobody makes the "ultra compact" cars anymore. I remember back in the 80's the Honda CRX got close to 60 MPG's on the highway. The Geo Metro got around 55MPG's too. Although neither of these cars were anywhere near as comfortable, they achieved the same fuel mileage. A CRX however was a pretty fun little car to drive (and rather quick too!) The beauty of these cars was that they featured old, inexpensive technology, so were very inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

Part of it I guess stems from government regulation. They continue to tighten the belt on dumb safety specifications, and on emission controls. What the heck is the deal with side-impace airbags? They propel the body in the same direction as the crash force?!?!?! Sometimes, and engine is not necessarily all that clean in a vehicle, even though it's efficient. The problem is that the pollution amount is based on the output power of the engine and the weight of the vehicle, not the overall amount of pollutants the vehicle delivers. For example, A Hylander Hybrid may discharge more pollutants than a CRX, and be qualified as a "clean" vehicle because it has upwards of 250 HP avaliable and weighs over 4000 pounds, where the CRX is rated as a gross polluter because it only has 55 HP, weighs in at only 1600 pounds, and puts out more pollutants per HP (and will drive circles around the Hylander)

I remember my uncle having a Buick Century from the 80's with an "Iron duke" 4 cylinder in it. Yes, the car was a little slow, but it was very roomy and comfortable. It would achieve almost 35MPG's out on the highway. You don't hear about mid-sized vehicles like this getting the good mileages that they used to. I was quite suprised to read that the modern-day Honda Accords can't even eke out over 26 MPG's. I remember the original ones getting almost 40 MPG's
 
I looked on some European auto sites. Micro-compacts are big there. Ford (an American company) has the Ka, and GM has some too, they don't sell them here. I think there would be a market, especially now. Also, the Smart is coming. It is a cute car with great safety ratings. A friend had one as a rental in England and loved it. They are not expensive either.
 
cybrvanr, I think part of the reason we haven't been seeing those cars is because everybody has been wanting those big "trucky things" as I call them, for at least the last 10 years or so. Maybe that's going to start to turn if fuel prices continue this high, I don't know. Sometimes a person almost feels in the minority if they're driving a regular car.

As for the Accord, that has just grown and grown over the years from a compact to pretty much a midsize now, and I suppose with more weight, bigger engines and so forth, the mileage has suffered some, although it's still better than many. In fact, the current Civic is probably bigger than the original Accords. My car is about the size of an Accord (it is a 4 cylinder manual; at least for me, automatic, air conditioning and 4 cylinders simply do not mix) and I get 20-25 in the city and about 35 on long trips.
 
I think the big reason people don't want the "Ultra-Compact" cars is safety-with all of those big SUV's,Pickups,etc around-in a crash that little compact and its driver wouldn't stand a chance of survival.And the larger highlander can carry more cargo-sometimes I need to do this-an Ultra-compact-this would be impossible.I would disagree on the small car versus the hybrid-remember the engine in the non-hybrid is running all the time-in the hybrid-only when its needed.In my Highlander-the engine stops at traffic lights-If you accelerate slowly it won't start until you get to about 35MPH.And if you need to accelerate quickly-that 55HP vehicle is underpowered-dangerous to merge into freeway traffic.With both motors in a Hybrid-prius or Highlander-its not a problem.The verry small vehicles would be what we could call "city cars" great for driving around in a big city where you may not be driving over 45MPH.They would be easy to park,manuever, and store.
 
You do have a point there Tolivac...can't haul too many washers and other appliances found by the curbside in a Honda CRX....then again, you'd be suprised at what I was able to get in the back of mine! You are right on the safety department. The reason why I don't have mine anymore is because someone ran a red light and hit me in it. Luckiy, they tagged it just ahead of the front wheel, and I wasn't injured. The energy was dissapated spinning the car multiple times. The car though, fragmented into a million pieces like an indy car when they wreck. There's a cost to being that lightweight! Still, I'd buy another one just because of the fun factor!

One thing however, you'd be suprised how well 55 HP would get that little car moving! On-ramps were never a problem, in fact, the little speedster, as I called it, could out-accellerate many other vehicles. I remember having to play "chicken" with idiots that would speed up when they saw a merging vehicle... I'd win almost every time!!! One of the cool things about my CRX too was the fact that it handled so well. Most drivers of larger vehicles would need to slow down through the curves and turns of the on-ramps....especially pickups and SUV's The CRX though would take them at full highway speeds without even as so much as splashing the cup of coffee in the tray. That helps too, because you can "hit the ground running" That little car was a total blast! Heavy traffic wasn not a problem because you'd be amazed where you can fit a car that handles like a go-kart, and is not much bigger than one!

Still, the car didn't do everything, so I bought a big Chevy van to complement it. Back when fuel prices were only $.79 a gallon (1993) I could fill up that van's 30 gallon tank, get a bunch of friends together and head for VA beach or some other fun trip for the day. The van runs over 500 miles on a tank, Today, it costs over $70 to fill that same tank! Likewise, the van sits in the driveway now most of the time, only getting driven when there are big jobs to do. My SAAB gets the lion's share of the driving. It's like a bigger version of my CRX in the way it handles and performs, plus it gets about 34 MPG's on the open road. I wonder why many people haven't considered the "two car" method. Keep a big vehicle for those hardware store runs and other big jobs, and have a little compact car for the daily commuting, and errand running. So far, this method has worked great for me over the years. It also helps if one vehicle is off the road for repairs or upgrades, and you need something else to drive!

The van has become my customizing toy recently anyways, and it spends a good part of it's life now dis-assembed and being customized. So far, I've replaced the headliner and carpeting in it, plus redone all the seat upholstery, and added a DVD entertainment system. The engine has been upgraded with a Holley Fuel injection system and dual exhausts. The paint is looking a little shabby after close to 20 years of being driven, so it's gonna get a new coat of paint later on this summer.
 
The Smart car division of Daimler-Chrysler has never made a profit. So its future may be uncertain, although the company repeatedly says it has no intention of abandoning it.

I recently read that plans to introduce a four door four seater Smart car have been shelved - it was supposed to debut in the USA in the next year or so. Apparently the company still plans on importing the two-door here, though. Time will tell. Maybe it will seat four.

A co-worker has a diesel VW New Bug. He says it gets 49 mpg. Not bad. And it doesn't even sound like a diesel.
 
Actually a four door four seater Smart was already introduced overhere in Europe a while ago. It's made in the Netherlands. However, it's not a big succes and Daimler Chrysler have decided to stop the production so very likely there will never be introduced in the USA.

Here's a picture of the Smart forfour.
 
The forFour looks like a number of other econoboxes, it doesn't have the cute factor that the forTwo has, does it?

Is that why it was a sales failure? Or were there other reasons?
 
It's good to hear so many good things about the Prius, I hope they continue to succeed in the next couple of years. I will seriously consider something like this for running around town for work, etc. and keep my van or buy a small truck for the appliance moving and other hauling. My van gets around 17-19 in town, better on highway trips. I think this country does need to "suffer" a few pains at the pump for a while, it should help curb some of the Hummeritis that seems to have no end. At our local auto show a couple of months ago, there were ques just to SIT inside of Hummer, sadly, it will probably take years to change that kind of ingrained "drink the kool-aid" mentality.
 
I just had a conversation with a long term Toyota dealership mechanic.

The Prius is, according to him, beset by lots of software bugs. It has 11 separate computer control units. They are all supposed to talk to each other, but... The systems need to be reprogrammed on a regular basis. This all sends the Prius owners into a tizzy.

Basically, even the new models, the bugs are not quite out yet. I would wait a few years before jumping on the Prius bandwagon. Sounds kind of like the debut of the HE3T... LOL...

Don't know if the new Honda Civic hybrid will be any more reliable.
 

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