Trying out a cheap front load washer controller

[adam-aussie-vac]

Hey guys, have any of you Tried out one of these el cheapo Washing machine controllers? They may come in different models of different styles of washing machine, the one that I bought today is for a front loading washing machine, they have versions for the top loading Washers that have a solenoid to close the clutch, the impeller style ones that have a belt

 

[richnz]

String excitation mode!

How much did that beauty set you back?

Good luck it getting it to work. Perhaps a video of it in action is called for?

Rich

 

[gizmo]

excited string?

I'm guessing "string excitation mode" would mean it is for series-wound motors. (normal brush-type motors.)

The fields and armature are wired as a "string" in series motors, in parallel for shunt-wound motors.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

It only set me back about 30 bucks

So no big loss, I’m probably thinking about putting it in a dead Asko machine

 

[gizmo]

What model Asko?

I have  a lot of parts for model 12004. If you need anything, it is yours. You would only have to reimburse me for postage.

 

Some Askos of that vintage, including the 12004, had a very interesting motor, made by Siemens. It will NOT work with that controller. It is some sort of weird hybrid, I think it functions as an induction motor on wash and as a series motor (brush motor) on spin. I have a couple, I should pull one apart to confirm. Miele used a two-in-one motor, basically two motors on one shaft, but this is different. It is one motor that functions in two ways. Unless I am mistaken. Does anyone have a service manual for a Asko 12004 or 12005?

 

The base model Asko of the time, 10505 I think it was, had a standard brush motor and probably would work.

 

[tomdawg]

Ohhh, I could go for one of these! Totally would make up my own wash cycle if I could...

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

I’ll give

You the link, not sure if you can change the programs

AU $38.52 8％ Off | Applicable drum washing- machine universal conversion board Roller universal computer board SXY https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6qR60C

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Good news and bad news

The good news is, the controller works on a Miele W 1926 although the bad news is due to the motor design tangential brushes, It seems to have a hard time with changing directions, as it spins fine in one direction but struggles in the other

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

[No message]

 

[lakewebsterkid]

More info!

More info is needed on this! This is nearly exactly what I want! If I could find a way to program my Duet if the MCB goes bad, that would be incredible.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

I guess the only thing that you really need is just a brush motor on it, as well as to make sure the door lock uses a PTC heater, I have to go to the electronic store and buy a relay so that way the door lock would be disengaged from the door open button

 

[davetranter]

Interesting thread!

I have the feeling that it's about time that someone developed a 'Universal' controller, usable to 'resurrect' older machines with 'dead' controllers. Very useful for those of us who don't have 'component-level' testing/servicing skills.

I am also interested by the mention of the 'weird hybrid' Asko motor. Quite apart from keeping old Askos going, I could probably think of several uses for such a motor, my lathe/mill being a possible candidate!

If anyone does have any info on these motors, please share!!

All best

Dave T

 

[gizmo]

Asko "weird hybrid motor"

Hi Dave

I still have 1 or 2 of those motors in the shed.

I can unearth one and find its model number, and post it here if you like.

It is made by Siemens.

AFAIK there is absolutely no electronic control in that machine. Just switching windings to achieve different speeds.

The motor gives a steady wash speed of maybe 50 rpm?

The motor gives 2 spin speeds, 900 rpm, and 1400 rpm.

That is pretty amazing for a machine with no electronic controls.

Chris.

 

[lowefficiency]

The control panel says on the front that it (or some aspect of it) is patented... Does the product literature mention any patent numbers?

 

[gizmo]

Dave... well I've found 2 of those motors. One is definitely Siemens and has markings on it that I can't read clearly. I have added a photo. Hopefully your eyes are better than mine.

the other is identical but has no markings on it. It has a sticker on it with the number 8051138.

Google gives me a few matches but for some reason they are all in Russian. They are for an Acko (Asko) washer so they are a match. They show some alternative part numbers that might lead you somewhere...

They are both off Asko 12004 washers, at a guess 20 years old? One I have is very rusty, the other appears excellent. I'm in Australia so not much use to you.

I haven't pulled one apart yet, but I've peered inside. There are clearly windings that indicate an induction motor. But it has brushes. There are only six wires to it. I think it works on witchcraft...

Loading…

www.moscowmaster24.ru

 

[henene4]

There are a few ways I can imagine it working

It certainly won't have a frequency converter based drive - these were verry rare back then.

A brushed motor can work either on DC or AC.

I both cases the voltage determines the speed.
And a DC H-Bridge PWM driver can be verry small and verry easy to build even back then - Miele used them as early as the late 80s I think.

Without any brushes - an induction motor like on dryers has its speed depended on 2 variables:
Its numbers of windings - let's better say how many "poles" are wound - and what frequency is driven through it.

Since we can't change the freuqency (at least back then we couldn't, today we easily can) all we can do is change the number of effective poles.

So, if we start with a lot of poles and the just shunt the together, we go from a lower speed to a higher speed with one switch.

And since you can hardwire such relations, it get's verry simple.

I honestly do think that your's is just a DC PWM system.

You'd need 2 wires for the stator, 2 for the rotor and 2 for RPM feedback.
Such systems can be run of 4 mosfets and a simple integrated circuit; nothing impossible or even hard for the 2000s.

For a induction system you'd need 1 common neutral and then each 2 wires minimum for each speed.

 

[gizmo]

Hi Henrik

This is not a PWM system. It has absolutely no electronic control. There is no tacho for feedback. I am very familiar with PWM systems. They require an electronic control, this machine has none.

It simply has a mechanical timer (AKO brand?) which switches motor windings to change from wash to spin.

I will try to give a clearer explanation later, it is late and  I need some sleep.

I used to understand the correct terminology to use to describe what I think happens on the wash phase but I need to refresh my understanding before I say much more.

Think of a 2 speed induction washing machine motor, the type common in Italian machines of the 1970s and 1980s. Each speed has two windings, one winding is fed by a capacitor, the other direct. The timer changes which of the 2 windings is fed by capacitor to reverse the motor.

I believe this is what happens in the Asko motor for wash.

The spin is simple - a brush motor is fed 240 volts for spin. To increase the spin speed from 900 to 1400 rpm, the timer bypasses half of the field winding. UK Hotpoints used to do this, too.

The magic is that the same motor works as induction motor in wash and universal motor in spin. Yet they use the same rotor. Very clever engineering. I only half understand how it is done... I'd like to understand the rest.

My machine was from 1992.

Chris.

 

[davetranter]

'Odd' motors

Thanks for the information, Gizmo.... I'll try to find out more.

On the subject of 'workarounds' to get higher spin speeds in the days of induction motors....

Somewhere in my collection I have a simple 2 speed motor (from a commercial washer I would assume, judging by the size of it) which is about 30 pole on 'wash' and runs at around 200rpm, and 2 pole on spin running at around 2800rpm at 50Hz....
Sadly, this motor has no identifying marks/labels on it. :-(

I also have a more ingenious 3-speed motor, which is (IIRC) 8 pole on wash (the reduction in number of poles allowing a more compact motor), but has an epicyclic reduction gearbox built into the pulley to give a pulley speed again of around 200rpm. When switched to either of the spin speeds (4 pole and 2 pole), a centrifugal brake 'locks' the epicyclic gears to provide direct drive at motor shaft speed (1450 or 2800 rpm). I will dig this one out sometime soon to look for any identifying marks.

All best

Dave T

 

[gizmo]

Hi Dave

I also have the remains of one of those motors with the reduction gear on the end. It too was made by Siemens. I don't remember what it came out of, I think also an old Asea or Asko? Mine was a two speed motor only. Very clever engineering - two speed motor, on slow (1400rpm) it operated through the reduction gear, I think it was about 10 to 1 reduction? When the motor switched to high speed (2800rpm) the centrifugal weights flew out, locking out the reduction gear so the pulley turned at motor speed. This would give about 20:1 ratio of wash speed to spin speed, so if geared for a 55rpm drum speed wash it would be 1100 rpm spin. Must have been expensive to manufacture.

 

Chris.