Hey guys, I got a question for ya. Modern american FL's are great! They have huge capacities, tons of features and flexibility, and get the clothes really really clean, all with out using an absurd amount of water. BUT for the most part they don't seem to last longer than 5-6 years. Quote "When you hang 40-50 pounds of water, laundry, and basket out on the end of a rotating shaft supported by bearings pressed into plastic, you have a mechanical system that just can't survive very long" End quote. What do you guys think about that? How do European designed units deal with this problem. How long do vintage FL's across the pond last? What about the modern ones? Discuss!
UK Boyz - Let's talk Front-Loaders
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magic clean
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Not
from the UK, but, Jed you said:
"When you hang 40-50 pounds of water, laundry, and basket out on the end of a rotating shaft supported by bearings pressed into plastic, you have a mechanical system that just can't survive very long".
My .02 is that this is not true of all modern f/l. Who made that statement? There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of large capacity machines running just fine as they are nearing 7 or 8 + years. Actually the outer tubs being made from plastic has benefits. I.E.
*Retains wash water heat
*Deadens sound
*Won't corrode
*Can be engineered to be every bit a strong as a steel tub
and if the seal-bearing fails, the rear half of the tub containing the seal-bearing is exchanged for new. Factory installed and properly aligned. No special tools required.
from the UK, but, Jed you said:
"When you hang 40-50 pounds of water, laundry, and basket out on the end of a rotating shaft supported by bearings pressed into plastic, you have a mechanical system that just can't survive very long".
My .02 is that this is not true of all modern f/l. Who made that statement? There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of large capacity machines running just fine as they are nearing 7 or 8 + years. Actually the outer tubs being made from plastic has benefits. I.E.
*Retains wash water heat
*Deadens sound
*Won't corrode
*Can be engineered to be every bit a strong as a steel tub
and if the seal-bearing fails, the rear half of the tub containing the seal-bearing is exchanged for new. Factory installed and properly aligned. No special tools required.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
I have Zanussi from 2001 that seems to be fine, typically 3-4 loads a week. It has a polypropylene outer tub and stainless steel inner drum. No problems so far. The outer tub can be split for servicing.
On the other hand, I had an AEG with stainless steel outer tub, and the drum bearings knackered up after 3 years.
I understand that modern machines from various manufacturers, now have sealed tubs, so its often cheaper to buy a whole new machine.
On the other hand, I had an AEG with stainless steel outer tub, and the drum bearings knackered up after 3 years.
I understand that modern machines from various manufacturers, now have sealed tubs, so its often cheaper to buy a whole new machine.
My Neptune is
nearing 10 years and running great.
Most FL failures I have seen have been due to A) badly aligned seals installed at the factory and B) Some corrosive element in a local water supply that gets behind the seal. In both cases it all has to do with moisture (not necessarily water) getting into the bearings.
C) A bearing that was defective from the bearing manufacturer that had either no lubricant installed or rough balls in the races. (Those wear out real fast).
My 50+ year old Combos are still tumbling strong on their original bearings and seals.
A good seal is the key.
nearing 10 years and running great.
Most FL failures I have seen have been due to A) badly aligned seals installed at the factory and B) Some corrosive element in a local water supply that gets behind the seal. In both cases it all has to do with moisture (not necessarily water) getting into the bearings.
C) A bearing that was defective from the bearing manufacturer that had either no lubricant installed or rough balls in the races. (Those wear out real fast).
My 50+ year old Combos are still tumbling strong on their original bearings and seals.
A good seal is the key.
electron800
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God the number of times I seem to say this
But my machine will be 16 years old this year, without a single repair and has been in continuous use. It has a metal outer tub (not stainless steel, I think it's galvanised) It takes a 5kg (11lb) load which I know is considered tiny across the pond but I still have trouble filling it. The secret really is just good design made of hard wearing materials (and ofcourse luck of the draw, sometimes you get a good'un, sometimes it's a bad'un). It also uses around 100l of water. I'm not sure how these new large capacity machines will manage and I think it may be contributing to the shorter lives of machines these days, same with fast spin speeds. I consider my 1000rpm machine fast, but these days with 1600 and even 2000rpm machines around I guess people would think it slow.
Then again I doubt most 9kg+ 1600rpm+ front loaders will be going still in 16years time, especially not without repair
But my machine will be 16 years old this year, without a single repair and has been in continuous use. It has a metal outer tub (not stainless steel, I think it's galvanised) It takes a 5kg (11lb) load which I know is considered tiny across the pond but I still have trouble filling it. The secret really is just good design made of hard wearing materials (and ofcourse luck of the draw, sometimes you get a good'un, sometimes it's a bad'un). It also uses around 100l of water. I'm not sure how these new large capacity machines will manage and I think it may be contributing to the shorter lives of machines these days, same with fast spin speeds. I consider my 1000rpm machine fast, but these days with 1600 and even 2000rpm machines around I guess people would think it slow.
Then again I doubt most 9kg+ 1600rpm+ front loaders will be going still in 16years time, especially not without repair
Hi Jed
I can certainly see your point about the very heavy loads these machines have to take. In the UK the standard size is about 13-14 pounds, although they come bigger and smaller. They used to be only about 9-10 pounds (dry load).
How the bearings will fair today, is a guess, the sometimes over sensitive out of balance spin sensors seem to help. I think at the end of the 80s early 90s when machines had got cheaper but out of balance sensors were not used or were basic, the machines would really take a bashing. But then some machines have lasted many years.
I think they will always last an average of 7 years (for an average family) as they manufacturors want us to keep replacing them.
Rob
I can certainly see your point about the very heavy loads these machines have to take. In the UK the standard size is about 13-14 pounds, although they come bigger and smaller. They used to be only about 9-10 pounds (dry load).
How the bearings will fair today, is a guess, the sometimes over sensitive out of balance spin sensors seem to help. I think at the end of the 80s early 90s when machines had got cheaper but out of balance sensors were not used or were basic, the machines would really take a bashing. But then some machines have lasted many years.
I think they will always last an average of 7 years (for an average family) as they manufacturors want us to keep replacing them.
Rob
My FriGEMore is now over 10 years old and never had a problem.
ALTHOUGH, I think the cleaning ability is a bit lame.
If I were to buy an new American model it would be a SQ.
3 yrs. warranty
Made in America
Steel parts
Water temp. Boost.
ALTHOUGH, I think the cleaning ability is a bit lame.
If I were to buy an new American model it would be a SQ.
3 yrs. warranty
Made in America
Steel parts
Water temp. Boost.
I would agree with that completely, most European FL machines seem to get between 7 and 10 years before they need replacement and many go on quite a bit longer.
Older machines did last longer, but you also have to remember that their price was also MUCH MUCH higher, some of the early European automatics cost as much as a small car!
Of the modern machines, even the fairly mediocre machines can last and last.
E.g. my grandmother has a Hotpoint Aquarius which must be approaching 10 years old and is used at least once a day. It hasn't had a single repair or given an ounce of trouble.
I don't think a FL machine is intrinsically any less reliable than a Top Loader. They both have their advantages and disadvantages from an engineering point of view.
Front loaders may potentially suffer from more issues with bearings simply because they use them much more ... higher spin speeds and the drum is used to wash the clothes rather than an agitator. TLs only use the tub to spin.
On the other side of it, they don't have complicated transmissions and brakes to give trouble, which seems to be a major issue for top loaders as they start to age.
Overall it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other when it comes to reliability.
Older machines did last longer, but you also have to remember that their price was also MUCH MUCH higher, some of the early European automatics cost as much as a small car!
Of the modern machines, even the fairly mediocre machines can last and last.
E.g. my grandmother has a Hotpoint Aquarius which must be approaching 10 years old and is used at least once a day. It hasn't had a single repair or given an ounce of trouble.
I don't think a FL machine is intrinsically any less reliable than a Top Loader. They both have their advantages and disadvantages from an engineering point of view.
Front loaders may potentially suffer from more issues with bearings simply because they use them much more ... higher spin speeds and the drum is used to wash the clothes rather than an agitator. TLs only use the tub to spin.
On the other side of it, they don't have complicated transmissions and brakes to give trouble, which seems to be a major issue for top loaders as they start to age.
Overall it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other when it comes to reliability.
I ADORE European frontloaders, I've yet to encounter any other machine that can beat my Miele in terms of performance! Granted, I've yet to get my Unimatic up and running fully to the point where I can put a real load in it! 
ronhic
Well-known member
On the note of reliability....
My mother had a Simpson 'Fluid drive' top loader from 1968 to 1989. This was replaced with an Asea Cylinda 12000 (same look but better than Asko today) in May 1989. The Asea has subsequently been replaced 3 weeks ago with a Fisher & Paykel front loader that they buy in from Beko Turkey. Beko also own Blomberg Germany and the quality is showing in their machines.
So in 40 years, she has had to replace 2 manchines. Not bad given my father is a builder (imagine the gunk that has gone through those machines!)
My mother had a Simpson 'Fluid drive' top loader from 1968 to 1989. This was replaced with an Asea Cylinda 12000 (same look but better than Asko today) in May 1989. The Asea has subsequently been replaced 3 weeks ago with a Fisher & Paykel front loader that they buy in from Beko Turkey. Beko also own Blomberg Germany and the quality is showing in their machines.
So in 40 years, she has had to replace 2 manchines. Not bad given my father is a builder (imagine the gunk that has gone through those machines!)
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