URGENT: My '57 GE Combination -- Is it Done For?

[ozzie908]

Where is Turbokinetic ?

He is an excellent fridge repairman some of his rebuilds from what look like scrap is simply amazing...He helped me fix my Admiral SxS last year too, lovely chap.

Austin

 

[turbokinetic]

Hey guys....

Sorry I have been (and still am!) overseas. I am vicariously disenjoying your winter weather from the lovely climate of Trinidad, West Indies. And I am being paid to be here 'cause it's a business trip!

I made a wiring diagram with AutoCAD to show how to implement a Supco RO41 device.

See if this wiring diagram will help you to solve the problem. The original configuration is shown at the top, with the replacement relay shown below, for comparison as to exactly what changes need to be made.

Printable version: home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/IMG/GE_Fridge_4-wire.pdf

This is based on the diagram that swestoyz posted earlier in the thread. I already had a different scan of that page.

Sincerely,
David

home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/IMG/GE_Fridge_4-wire.pdf

 

[rp2813]

Hi David, and thanks for your post.

 

I'm not very good at reading/understanding schematics.  I see in the Supco schematic that the green wire isn't used, as your description indicated.  Would I just leave it hanging (safely out of trouble's way) or remove it entirely?

 

Do you know if the WR7X57 will work as claimed?  I feel comfortable using something that will hook up the same way as what's happening on the old relay, and am willing to pay more for the ability to match things up and transfer them off the old relay and onto the new.  Otherwise, I would need layman's terms for how the Supco would be adapted.  I'm on the verge of buying a WR7X57 if it's GE's authorized replacement, as I got stung many years ago after buying a Supco for my mom's '75 Coldspot and ending up unable to make it work.

 

Enjoy the nice Trinidad weather!  Even here in the Bay Area we're all tired of the cold days (for us, anyway) and frosty nights.

 

[rp2813]

I bought one of the ebay relays.  It's scheduled to arrive on 3/1. 

 

[stan]

Ralph

I've been following.. Hoping for grand solution for you.
Glad David stopped by for this.
I'd be in a Panic if it was my old fridge!
If it was a old washer, I'd figure it out. But a sick vintage fridge..catastrophic!
Good thoughts

 

[spacepig]

Does anyone know if the above e-bay part would also work for a '55 or '56 combination?

 

[combo52]

Relay problems with a 1957 GE combination refrigerator

Yes sorry Ralph I have not been available I also am enjoying the warmth of Fort Lauderdale and Key West at the moment finally had a break to look at the site.

The first thing I would do with this problem is try testing the resistances of the compressor to see if the windings are any good. Then if you can get it to run check the overall I am drawl and see if it’s within specs.

There’s about a 50-50 chance it’s a bad relay or a bad compressor.

I would try cleaning up the contact and loosening up the old relay with some solvent and lube and see if you can get it to work then you can determine whether the compressor is really bad or not. These compressors unfortunately do wear out mechanically you can also have a winding failure in them ultimate solution may be to put a new were compressor in it.

John.

[this post was last edited: 2/24/2019-10:23]

 

[rp2813]

Thanks John.  I already bought the replacement GE relay, but if that turns out not to be the problem I'm sure someone here will have a need for one at some point.

 

The thing that concerns me is that when the fridge was trying to kick in, the muffled buzzing sound didn't seem to be coming from the relay.  It sounded more like it was coming from the back corner behind the condenser fan.

 

If the compressor is shot, I won't pursue a replacement.  It's a nice fridge, but I prefer a bottom freezer type.  If it were a BF model, frost-free or frost-y, I'd be more inclined to pursue a new compressor.

 

The compressor did jiggle a bit during attempts to cycle on, as if it wasn't totally frozen up and dead, but I know that doesn't necessarily mean it's OK, either.

 

The sad truth is that even if the compressor is fine, the access issues to replace the wiring between the fan and the relay could be what really ends up rendering the fridge a lost cause, at least as far as my ability to repair it goes.  If anyone has replaced a condenser fan or related wiring on one of these, I'd appreciate any helpful information on how to get at it.  As you can see in my reply (ending in 356) above, the opening is small and I don't think I can even fit my hand through it to reach the fan, and I certainly have no view of the mounting screws.

 

[rp2813]

Ephemera

Would the 1958 GE refrigerator/freezer service manual be worth downloading from the library?  I imagine only the door hardware and interior trim would be different, and I'm only concerned with the cooling system.

 

https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~1104~General Electric~RF

 

[swestoyz]

Ralph - I have a copy of the ‘57 service manual scanned. I can send you a copy if you’d like. Feel free to shoot me a PM.

Ben

 

[rp2813]

Thanks Ben!  Message sent!

 

[rp2813]

Many thanks to Ben for sharing his scanned service manual!

 

I was able to remove the condenser fan motor, but I see no way to take the housing apart in order to replace its crispy cord.  It looks as if the two sections have been pressed together.

 

I can't find a part number on the housing.  Just this:  5K51AL24D.  Per the service manual, this is a two-phase motor, and as was stated further up, the cord has three conductors, black, white, and green.  They connect to the relay as follows:

 

Green = Terminal 1, shared with Blue wire from the guardette

White = Terminal 2, shared with White wire from compressor start terminal

Black = Unnamed, possibly AKA Terminal 4 --shared with the power cord and either common or run wire from the compressor, I can't be sure.

 

New aftermarket replacement fan motors only have two conductors (as seen in Paul's picture).   I guess I'm OK with that, and it looks like placement of the holes for the mounting screws is standard.  Unless there's a way to get the existing fan motor apart, this may be the best solution for the fan. 

 

Now here's the interesting thing I discovered.  When pulling the green fan wire connector off the relay, the whole blade it slid onto was moving around.  The screw holding this blade and the wire from the guardette was slightly loose.  Could this have been the source of the trouble?  It would be just my luck that tightening one screw would have fixed the problem and left the fan and its wiring undisturbed.

 

[rp2813]

I went ahead and snipped the fan motor cord near the strain relief and spliced/soldered on a new section with black, white and green conductors.  I feel fairly confident that the old wiring I spliced onto won't short out.

 

I'll still look for a replacement fan, but I know anything new will fail well before 62 years go by.  If I can hold out for a NOS 2-phase motor I will.  I don't even know the difference between 2-phase and single phase, or why GE thought two-phase was a better idea. 

 

If I do end up with a single phase replacement, is it safe to assume the black and white leads are interchangeable?  Everything I've seen has a standard tandem black cord.  And if there's no third (green) wire from the fan motor, should I assume that the blue wire from the guardette will live by itself on relay terminal #1 and the fan will still operate properly?

 

As for the replacement relay, I noticed it has no mounting piece like the existing relay, so I guess it will just hang or lay somewhere like a Supco would.

 

[mattl]

Question regarding brittle wires - has anyone simply slid some heat shrink tubing over the crispy insulation? Add a little heat and it should be as good as  new. Might be easier than stripping and soldering.

 

[turquoisedude]

Yes! I did that on the drive motor of my '53 Westinghouse washer because I didn't feel competent enough to replace the wiring. That might work in this case!

 

[combo52]

Replacement Condenser Fan Motor For A 57 GE Ref

Hi Ralph, you can use almost any two wire motor, WPs PT# is 833697 for example we usually have these around because they sell them in quantity to servicers for around $11.00.

 

GE originally used the 3 wire 2 phase motor because it had more starting torque and used less power once it started, the compressors relay also started the fan motor.

 

The orignal 3 wire motor drew around 30 watts when running, most 2 wire CFMs drew around 45 watts, new electronic ECM motors today only draw around 5 watts toady, I always like putting these new ECM motors in all my rebuild projects, but lets not make this any more complicated.

 

The new 2 wire motor will just get connected to two of the orignal leads [ I am not sure which two as we don't do this repair that often any longer, I would always just test which set is hot when the compressor is running ]

 

John L.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks John, I'm going to test my fan motor repair today.  I'll use a power strip with a breaker in it, and plug that into a GFI outlet.

 

Matt and Paul, I had thought about a way to re-insulate the wiring but didn't know that heat-shrink tubing was a thing.  I'm not sure if it would have been any better than electrical tape, as the sort of twine material in the fan's cord makes the whole repair process difficult.  If the motor shorts out when I test it, I'll either go back to square one and give heat-shrink a try (I hope it comes in at least three colors) or buy a new fan and replace per John's input. 

 

Can I assume that a new motor designated as a GE replacement (for refrigerators a lot younger than a '57 Combination) will have mounting holes in the same places as the current one?

 

 

 

[rp2813]

The Fan Is Toast

I tested the fan motor on a GFI outlet, using only the black and white leads from the motor.  Dead.  But apparently not dead enough to keep from tripping the outlet.   I'm sure this is about the crispy wires deeper into the sheathing than I could reach.

 

Now the question is, if I buy a replacement motor, how can I be sure the blade will mount on it?  The existing blade has two tabs near the center mounting hole and they fit into a component of the motor that doesn't exist on replacement motors.  Do I just flatten those tabs?  I was surprised to find that the blade is fastened to the motor with a simple zip nut.

 

 

 

[combo52]

Replacement Condenser Fan Motor

Will it fit a 57 GE ref ?, Hi Ralph, I though I said it would in my reply # 35 if you use a WP 833697, there are also GE Pt#s that fit as well, these fan motors are one of the most universal parts out there, this WP part literally will fit billions of different refs built from 1950 through many new models roiling off assembly lines now.

 

John

 

[rp2813]

Thanks John.  It's been a hectic day between trips to the DMV (because their web site is so lame) and the usual responsibilities for Dave, so I'm feeling kind of like a human pinball.  I completely spaced out on the information you shared above.

 

The relay arrived today (it's bigger than the original), so now it's just the fan that's holding me up.  I don't know if I can test the relay without the fan connected, so won't do anything until I have a replacement fan motor.

 

I'm familiar with those old WP fan motors since replacing the one on my mom's '75 Coldspot.  As long as the mounting holes match up, I'm good with anything that will be compatible.  I've bought a motor that appears identical (except for that 3rd wire) with WP PN 833697 so now I just have to wait for it to get here.  Thanks again.

[this post was last edited: 2/28/2019-00:22]