Vacuum Windshield Wiper Motor Troubleshooting

[rp2813]

Update

First off, it appears NAPA rules when it come to everyday parts for vintage vehicles. NAPA was the only place that stocked and properly referenced the correct fan belt for the Jimmy, and I just replaced it this past week. The previous belt that was supposedly the correct one per a less with-it auto supply chain was 1" too short, had the wrong pitch, and really squealed at higher RPM. It was a PITA to remove.

Well, regarding the wiper motor, I sort of made some progress. I pulled the motor apart and cleaned it out again, gave it some silicone lubricant and closed it back up. I started the truck, held the motor in my hand and attached the vacuum line to it. I switched it on and the mechanism started moving, but just barely. I took the motor back to the bench and tried the revival method I found for a '33 Plymouth, which advised to attach a very short length of vacuum hose to the motor, cock the motor 3/4 to the right, dip the end of the hose into a small container of refrigeration oil (I used turbine oil) and then move the mechanism 3/4 of the way back, which would cause it to draw in the oil. I repeated this once in the opposite direction per the instructions, then went back to the truck to check for operation, and what a difference! The motor was running smoothly and at a decent clip. I put everything back together and ended up with the original issue. No return sweep. Barely even an initial sweep. I think now it's a case of the linkage needing attention, and a tighter fitting vacuum line.

I'll pull the motor again and run it without the linkage and see how it behaves. Then I'll know what to do next, and that may include sending it off for a rebuild.

 

[qsd-dan]

I think now it's a case of the linkage needing attentio

That's what it sounds like to me. On most older vehicles, once you remove the top cowl cover, the transmission linkage will be exposed. Just hit the moving joints with a silicone lubricant spray while moving the whole works from one extreme to the other. Had to do that to my buddies old '63 Chevy Nova. Freakin 1 speed wipers on that beast. My buddy was insanely jealous over the 3 speed wipers on my '73 Dart

 

[sudsmaster]

3 speed wipers?

Bah.

My '64 Valiant has infinitely variable wiper speed.

Goes all the way up to 11, too!

 

[rp2813]

I had a '64 Galaxie with 1-speed wipers. It was a great speed for being the only one. I had that car until 1978 and the clock never stopped working. Very few 60's vintage cars you could say that about--even back then.

I'm hoping the linkage on the Jimmy is the problem. No cowl access. I'll have to do it from under the dash, but with an extension cord lamp I should be able to find all the pivot points. I've had the motor apart so much now that I'm surprised it even wants to function at all. I'll keep my fingers crossed once I've got the linkage lubed.

 

[sudsmaster]

The '78 Dodge pickup motor is inside the engine compartment, and the linkage is under a cowl cover that I finally got the gumption to remove. Relatively easy to service. The Valiant motor and linkage are under the dash, a real pita to service. Same with the '50 Plymouth, but it's been a while since I needed to bother with the wipers on that.

 

[whirlaway]

The Flapper

All you are doing is wasting alot of your time,most likely the flapper inside the motor is just gone and all of this oiling just gives everthing a temp seal so it can draw a vac,get a new one.Im definitly sure they are on E-bay and electric conversions,Thanks Bobby

 

[58limited]

The previous belt ... It was a PITA to remove.

Cut it, don't try to loosen everything to remove it.

Do you know if the Chevy truck wiper motors were the same? For how many years? Here is a 54-55 Chevy/GMC motor on ebay for $40.00:

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[58limited]

I don't know if an electric upgrade

"would work for my truck. It's all original and still has the 6-volt positive ground system."

Ralph, are you sure about the positive ground? I don't know all of the differences between GMC and Chevy but thought that they were basically the same. My 1948-52 Chevy truck shop manual shows the Chevy trucks to have a negative ground. I have helped several friends work on their early 50's Chevy cars and they were all negative ground. And, the parts catalogs show the same parts for Chevy and GMC trucks. My truck was converted to 12V before I acquired it.

LMC's truck catalog has a 6V electric wiper motor for $240.00. www.lmctruck.com

I found a complete 6V electric wiper conversion kit listed for 1947-53 Chevy/GMC pickups in Classic Chevrolet Parts, Inc's catalog for about $240.00. www.classicchevroletparts.com

 

[hydralique]

I always associate positive grounds with British cars - I didn't realize any American vehicles used positive ground. It's a pain with stuff like motors and radios as most are made only for negative ground.

My grandmother had a '64 Galaxie, or to be more precise, a Country Sedan wagon, and yes that car was built like a tank. She owned hers from the fall of '63 until she died in '97. I can't recall how many speeds those wipers had, or if the clock worked until the end, but I do know the factory underdash A/C still did. It was a terrible car to drive with scary steering and brakes, but it always started and went. It did like regualar stops at the gas station, what with the Thunderbird 390 V8 and trailer towing package, but she didn't drive much so it didn't matter.

 

[rp2813]

It IS Positive Ground

I know it's weird, but yeah, all of the electrical stuff has to be hooked up backwards. The truck is all original, has all of its original wiring and has never been messed with that way. Once I picked it up from a mechanic who hadn't worked on it before, and when I started it up, all of the gauges read backwards, like discharging instead of charging, etc. I immediately walked back to the guy and advised him of the positive ground situation and he said something on the order of "Oh yeah, I forgot about that," and "retrained" the voltage regulator, which is a simple but necessary thing to do with this particular system.

And yeah Bobby, I'm feeling more and more resigned to having to replace or rebuild the motor. I'm not one to give up easily though, so will at least try to lube the linkage and see what happens.

That '54-'55 motor on ebay doesn't look exactly the same. The design of the GMC (and Chevy) changed up a bit on the interior and exterior in '54 and had a complete re-design starting in '55, so I guess the wiper motor also changed. Typically, the parts for my Jimmy that can be interchanged with Chevy range from '48 to '53. That appears to be the case with the wiper motor. I'm going to look into contacting the seller, though. He's way cheaper than other rebuilders I've found thus far.

 

[whirlaway]

Positive ground

All 6volt Chrysler products were positive from at least 39on up to 55.It gave you a hotter spark at the engine and the ignition points lasted longer and didnt pit.I believe Ford also was around 49and 50 and perhaps before that.The 55 Packards were 12volt positive ground,at least the one I had was.GM I was sure was negative ground.Smeone must have changed it somewhere along the way.Thanks Bobby

 

[sudsmaster]

A hidden advantage

Yes, the 50 Plymouth is 6 volt positive ground. I usually find at least one person who is surprised when they look at the battery and is informed that the system is positive ground.

One neat trick, though. JC Whitney sells a little 12 volt conversion cube that can turn 6 volt positive ground into 12 volt negative ground. I put four of these things in parallel and run a modern sound system in my '50 off it. This conversion only works with a 6 volt positive ground system. Not sure of the electronics (they are encased in resin) but it works well enough. And of course the modern system is discreetly tucked under the dash and in the glove compartment, and the original 6 volt AM tube radio works as well.

 

[qsd-dan]

Bah. My '64 Valiant has infinitely variable wiper speed.

Doesn't sound OEM to me

All 6 volt vehicles I ever played with were all positive ground, utilizing a bare ground strap.

"My grandmother had a '64 Galaxie, or to be more precise, a Country Sedan wagon. It was a terrible car to drive with scary steering and brakes, but it always started and went."

Sounds like it had some worn out parts. My buddies 65 Galaxie convertible steers and brakes like a typical 60's/70's car. At least to me, anyway.

 

[danemodsandy]

Dan:

I had a '63 Galaxie four-door sedan for a short time back in the '70s, and it was scary boat-like. Ford products later in the decade were a whole 'nother beast. I later had a '70 LTD Country Squire 10-passenger wagon (essentially the same as the '69, except for a revised grille), and it handled about like the average full-size car of that time. Well, except when I felt playful, because that sucker had a 429 and a four-barrel, and it took nothing at all to break the rears loose.

 

[sudsmaster]

Doesn't sound OEM to me

Oh, but I assure you, it is OEM for that car. The infinitely variable wiper speed on the '64 Valiant, that is.

Still have the car. Not currently registered or insured, on non-op, but it could be put back on the street without much work. If I can locate the owner's manual I'll scan the page that shows the wiper control operation and upload it here. Now... where DID I put that thing?

 

[sudsmaster]

It was an option...

Since this was my first car, I got very used to the luxury of infinitely variable windshield washer speed control, although they don't have blue periwinkles around the borders.

 

[hydralique]

'64 Ford . . .

Dan, my grandmother's wagon only had a little over 100,000 miles on it when she died, and I first drove it in '77 when it had far fewer miles. Part of the problem with the brakes is that Ford did not employ anti-dive front suspension geometry until they redesigned their full-size cars for the '65 model year. The brakes were also drums, which can be hard to modulate due to their tendency to self-energize - this was quite noticeable in the wet where it was very easy to lock up those whitewalls! When I started driving in the mid '70s my parents had a '68 Ford which was quite a bit better. Both cars took a lot of concentration to drive on a narrow road because the steering wasn't very precise, but again the '68 was better. The '64 in particular was happiest on a long, straight interstate where you didn't have to stop or steer.

After my grandmother's death in '97 my mother sold the wagon. She spent some time trying to find it a good home; it ended out going to a Ford enthusiast who wanted a vintage tow vehicle for some other old Fords he had. He took one look at all the weird heavy duty stuff the wagon had (oversized radiator, a filter in the power steering system, etc.), and of course the 390 4 barrel engine, and was thrilled to get it. All in all it was a very good car, just a pig to drive.

 

[sudsmaster]

The '64 Valiant is actually a fairly good handling car, especially for its time. The torsion bar front suspension soaks up bumps very well without getting wallowey. It does have a fair amount of lean, which could be corrected with a front sway bar, but I refrained from putting one in because I was worried it would ruin the smooth ride.

The car's weak points have been its cooling system and brakes. The nine inch drums front and rear and 13 inch rims simply are not big enough for hard driving. But I found that if I aways put in riveted, and not bonded brakes, and did the brake jobs myself, the brakes were no grabby and worked pretty well. And I learned how to drive the car to its limits. I put a lot of miles on that car, and some day I'll pull her out from under the covers, patch all the rust, give her a new coat of paint, renew the brakes etc and make her a daily driver again.

 

[ironrite]

Galaxie 500

One of my older sisters bought a new 1964 Galaxie 500 sedan. Pale yellow, gold cloth/vinyl interior, the factory but underdash SelectAir A/C and Tilt-away steering wheel. It also had the Thunderbird 390 4 barrel engine. It was her first car also with power steering and power brakes. She loved cars, but when she test drove an early 60s Chrysler with the power brakes and steering she almost hit a light pole, so she was leery about buying a car with those options.

I had the chance to borrow it from her in 1973 and was surprised by the power the car had. At the time still had my dad's 1969 LTD with the 390, but 2 barrel carb. The LTD was ok, but after a year in Phoenix, the Brittany Blue, medium metalic, paint faded out, the windshield leaked, causing the front seat to rip and tear. When I took that car into auto shop class in 1973, the teacher couldn't believe the car looked so bad, yet only had about 18k on it. My dad didn't drive the car much.

On those variable wipers, the old Lincolns I had used a wiper motor that was run from the power steering pump. If you turned the knob very carefully you could get it to do intermittent wiping. Probably due to gunk in the system. On those Lincolns the power steering pump located on the front of the engine on the crankshaft. It always concerned me that if you lost a hose would that pump seize.

 

[rp2813]

Yeah, I think those power steering-driven Lincoln wipers were supposed to operate intermittently, but you had to fiddle with the control to get that to happen. I did like that system, though. It worked flawlessly on my dad's '65. Slowest I could get from it was 30 seconds between sweeps.

My '64 Galaxie was fairly stripped down. It was my first car, it was a "cream puff" with only 50K miles on it when I bought it in 1973. It smacked of being an old maid's car, but it was easy to maintain with a 289 that ran on regular gas. It handled fine to me, but I had only driven big boats anyway. I drove that car all the way down to Mazatlan with three other people, loaded down with luggage, and we were hitting 90 mph along the Mexican straightaways that disappeared into the horizon. We blew a tire on the way home outside of Tucson, but other than that we had absolutely no problem, and typical of Fords from that era, even with ambient temperatures over 100 degrees, the needle on the temp gauge never even got close to the middle.

And re: that link to the '54-'55 wiper motor on ebay, I contacted the seller and he's got one for a '51 and it's priced right, so I think I'll just go ahead and buy it.