Kitchenaid Imperial 21-motor housing removal

[ctv]

Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some info as to how to,(or if you even can), remove the housing from the motor. The model # on the machine is KDI-61C, and on the motor itself no.3005721 type KD-20A. I got this from a rental house the tenants left behind, saying it didn't work, in 2000. It actually did work, just needed some water poured in. Got used for about 6 months, bit of a leak. Then stored til 2007, used about 2 months,(leak still there), stored again til now (2013). Used about twice, then it made a funny intermittent noise at end of cycle. Took everything off from inside the tub to find a shredded thin rubber grey gasket, but luckily found a replacement. So then had a look underneath, and found this white globule slimy stuff on the motor housing. I unhooked the wires, and removed 4 long screws which loosened it, but won't come right off. I'm pretty well taking the whole thing apart to clean to look like new (bit of OCD happening here....), but don't want to wreck anything. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
After reading some on this site, I'd also like to find out more about what someone had said about lubricating the timer. I suspect mine has issues.
Thank you.

 

[stevet]

Stuck like glue!

Since this is a reversing motor, you should be able to remove the bottom motor housing without much trouble aftrer removing the screws.There will not be any stationary start switch in the bottom of the housing to contend with.

However, based on how it looks in the picture you posted, it would seem that it is very much stuck on the laminations of the stator and would have to be tapped off. Even new motors would sometimes be so tight that they would resist coming apart easily.

May I strongly suggest that you remove the whole pump (from the inside) and then remove the motor from the lower black plastic pump mounting plate. Then you will be able to work on it easier on a bench or table. Looks like it was stores in a very damp location which made the goop form on the housing. I have seen that in restaurants where they had machines that had the same style of motors in them.

 

[ctv]

Hi Stevet.
Thanks soooo much for replying. I really want to keep this machine, else I wouldn't have dragged it around with me for so long.
When I undid the screws, it only loosened up enough for it to turn left or right about an inch, but still felt like there was something "holding" it, to not allow it to come right off. Like something else needed unsrewing or unbolting..... Should I keep turning it more in a certain direction, or try tapping and pulling, as you suggested?
Or is there a video on this site showing how to do it?
I don't know what a "laminations of the stator" means. I'm just a gal who can take things apart to a point, then stop at my expertise/comfort level, and don't know any gargon about these things.
Sorry....
In my search on this matter, I also signed onto the "ManageMyLife" site, where a fellow there said it wasn't designed or assembled for servicing, so now I have two opposing solutions.
Barring all else, what would be the best way to clean it without taking that casing/housing off, without damaging anything near the copper wiring or innards of the motor that the housing is covering.
I've spent about 4 days now, taking apart and cleaning everything with (literally), a tooth-brush. Did I mention OCD?
So for this to all be for naught, would send me screaming down the road.
Thanks again.
Ps, would more pictures help?

 

[stevet]

Stop where you are so far!

I am glad you responded that you could not get the motor apart. I had a lapse of memory on my suggestion to remove the bottom housing. There is a ball bearing on the motor shaft that sits inside that housing and it usually doesnt come out easily. It stays on the motor shaft when it does and you can clean the housing once they separate. However, in order to get the housing out in your case, you WILL have to disassemble the whole pump so that all you have left inside the machine is the shaft of the motor.

Again, if you really want to do this and HOPE that it goes back together properly, then remove the whole pump and mounting parts out thru the inside of the machine by disconnecting the wiring harness at the connector, removing the drain hose and the plastic manifold from the rubber hose on the bottom of the motor. Then unclip the motor and push it out thru the inside of the tank. The you can work on it on a bench or table.

If not.. then dry off the goop as best you can and get some electrical component cleaner that is not harmful to motor windings and spray and wipe it down.

That should help.

Am I scaring you yet?

Steve

 

[ctv]

Hi Steve.
Again, sooooo glad you got back to me.
I wasn't sure if I did a big boo-boo by mentioning the info I got from the "other" site.
Whew!
So, I ended up listening to my gut, and didn't try forcing it off. It was still loose enough to turn a bit to the right and left, (I hope that didn't bugger anything up?), and by this time the goop had dried, so got the handy-dandy toothbrush and got off as much as I could including the "pan" part of the motor housing right under the copper coils, trying not to touch them. There was still some stuff the toothbrush couldn't reach near the center shaft.
But wearily hooked back up all the wiring late last night, and it worked!!
Going to try a full cycle today.....wish me luck!
Also, could you tell me how much water I should see with a proper fill? I'm not sure if it's the timer or the float responsible for differing fill levels. Some cycles I have to add water, and some not. Should there be enough water in there for the float to "click"? Or can I just gauge it by how far it should be above or below, say, the heating element? This has been an issue from the start.
Update: New problem. Wah!
I left it full of water last night, and this morning found water pooled up under the motor in the housing. Scooped out all the water from tub, took everything out, and tilted it back to drain the water out from housing. Flashlight revealed possible culprit (?). From the underside, I could see a bit of water around where the left sided black hose is attached to the underside of the tub.
Could this be the problem, and if so, is there an easy fix?
Staring to get tired of all this....and of course dishes are piling up.
Thanks,
Christine.

 

[stevet]

Good to the last drop!

Christine,
That drip is very typical of these machines when they have gone unused for a while. The rubber shrinks a bit but if you continue to use it, it should be fine. However, you may want to make sure that the screws that hold the wash arm support in placce are all evenly tight.

Remove the wash arm and the filter strainer that surrounds the pump.There will be 4 Phillips head screws that attach the top and bottom parts of the wash pump together. The bottom of the wash pump has a plastic tube that pushes down on the rubber hose that is leaking and seals it to the motor mounting plate. The 4 screws hold all that stuff down onto the motor/ pump mounting plate.

Just gently snug up the screws. DO NOT go crazy on them as they are easily stripped out.

That and additional use should stop the drip. I have seen new hoses that have dripped and then stopped after a while.

Give that a try and see what happens. That is a good machine and should give you some good use in the coming years. The major item you will want to buy is the wash arm support and strainer. They are NLA from Whirlpool so you will have to look on Ebay or beg one from one of the members here or find another donor machine so you can get some spare parts for your unit. Your Imperial will clean just as well as the Superba model, even though it has fewer cycle selections.

As far as the water level is concerned, the fill is controlled by the timer and the float functions as a protection against overfilling. You should have a normal water level that comes to just below the bottom of the washarm center piece, that is, to just about the top of the fine strainer that surrounds the pump.
I don't have one of your style machines hooked up right now so I don't have any pictures of the water level but I am sure one of the guys can ost a pic for you to refer to.
If you are getting inconsistent water levels, then most definitely, take the fill valve apart and clean the fine strainer that is inside the valve. They can clog over the years and can affect the water levels.
Also, please be aware that your machine has various water purges during any given cycle which help to clean out the soil chamber and fine strainer UNDER the wash arm. So it is normal to see the water level just barely over the heating element at that point. It can be confusing but once you know what the machine should do, you will have less worries about it.
Hope this helps and gives you something to spend your day on!
Steve

 

[ctv]

Hi Steve.
Well, I got it all back together.
I thought I was being ingenious solving the leak problem.
I discovered that that black hose lifts a bit from inside the tub, so I wrapped white plunbers tape around it, just under the lip, and pushed it back down.
Turned it on, and everything's hunky-doory, but see water on the floor again. Looked under it (panel is still off), and can see it pooling up again in the motor housing, and also got sprayed with water.
Whatever that moving part is at the top of the motor was getting wet, so turned timer to drain, and tipped it back to let all the water drain off and away from the motor.
I forgot to add from previous posts, that the gasket in the picture was in pieces when I first started this project, but I got lucky in finding a replacement off another machine, and even though the replacement was definitely in better shape than original, I don't know if it's covering all it should as a new one would, and I'm wondering if this is the cause of this new and large leak.
I purchased a sheet of stuff from a store here called Industrial Plastics and Paints, that the guy said could be used as a replacement gasket in a dishwasher, (heat/water resistant). I showed him both gaskets.
From the picture, can you tell if it might be the gasket I need to replace? Or might it be something more sinister....?...(please say no)....
Thank you,
Christine.

 

[ctv]

A close up. This part is the hardest, and feels like sand-paper.

 

[ctv]

And here's the sheet I mentioned, hoping to cut out a new gasket. It is 2/16ths of an inch thick, but pliable.

 

[stevet]

Shaft seal time!

If there is water spraying out of the bottom when the machine is running, then it means that you have a bad shaft seal. On these machines, the shaft seal and drain impeller work as a set to seal the motor. In your machine the upper portion of the seal doubles as the drain impeller as well as the grinding element for the mini disposer built into the pump. The part you are replacing the gasket on works like a sizing ring to break the bits of food into smaller pieces.

You may still be able to get that part here and there so start looking for one even as a spare.

If you happened to run the machine without reassembling everything inside the tank, there will be water leaking from the seal when it runs and also just when it is sitting there. When you reassemble the parts they press down and seal the shaft of the motor.
Did you remember to put the small o ring on the shaft before putting the wash impeller back on? If you left it out it will leak too.

Check further and let us all know.
Steve

 

[ctv]

Hi Steve.
I've read some other threads, here, and I must say some of you guys have a quirky sense of humour. Wooda thought on a site like this!
So, the headache with this dishwasher continues.....Oy.
I'm going to make a gasket today from that sheet I bought for that purpose, but would you recommend me cutting it to overlap slightly around the outer edge of that metal plate that sits over it? I think a local repair place here said to do that. The inner part I'll cut out to form what it's supposed to look like from pictures I've found of the original.
I'm easily confused with written instructions and descriptions. Would you have diagrams or pictures showing what it is you're explaining to me, please? That would be oh so helpful.
Such as shaft seal, drain impeller, small O-ring on the shaft....I can pretend I'm smart enough to know what you're talking about, just to end up looking stooopid later.
I'm giving in and doing dishes by hand now. But only what's necessary!
Christine.
Or is there someplace I can look at all the parts, and how they go together.