Vintage Air Conditioner Help-Advice Needed

[davey7]

Hi! I have a vintage Frigidaire unit (through wall, 17k btu, 230 V, I'm guessing early to mid 60's, age-wise) which I had some trouble with last year, it was making a shorting noise around the inside coils. Saturday I took it out and cleaned it (truly filthy, bucket had sediment in it, condenser coils were filled with newspaper (little old lady fix of newspapers are weatherstrip/packing around edges must have been sucked in and congealed). So I get the thing (it's a beast really) back in, plugged in and turned on and there is a quick bang and a slight burnt smell and then nothing. It worked ok before that, the cooling was a bit weak but the dehumidification was terrific.

My question is, a) what is it, b)is it easy to fix, c) are parts even available and d) is it worth it (there was a lot of rust around the condenser supports and some of the aluminum around the coils was corroding)? It's retro fabulous, but if it's unrepairable or unfixable then I'll need to replace it. I've also noticed that I may be somewhat limited in what I can replace it with, due to existing sleeve size and wall thickness - it would be a huge job to replace the sleeve or expand it, masonry walls and 5th floor location.

I'll post some photos tomorrow.

 

[tomturbomatic]

It probably got water on some electrical component. It might work after drying out.

 

[davey7]

Do you think that could be it? It seemed to be doing something similar last summer, and they are designed (or so I thought) to get wet, since the condensate sits in the pan.

 

[maytagmark]

sounds like a burnt wire on the capacitor, if it is not mounted on the outside near the compressor it is inside the control panel, Its should be an easy fix, just dont touch the capacitor,they stay charged even with the unit unplugged. check that and see if you see a loose or burnt wire

 

[davey7]

Thanks Mark, that does sound kind of scary. I'm a bit leery of working on the capacitor myself.

 

[petek]

Right in time for a boiling hot ahead too    

 

[davey7]

I know, right? I have two working units in bedrooms, which work pretty well. It's 90 out already and heading higher.

 

[davey7]

So here are some images - front cover to start with.

 

[davey7]

Here's the label. Any clue as to the age from it?

 

[cfz2882]

motor

does that have a delco"inside out"external rotor fan motor?-i had one of those bad
on a '69 coldspot AC,had a shorted winding and would trip breaker after a couple
seconds-replaced this motor with an emerson i had on hand,had to relocate condenser
ahead about 2" for the emerson to fit.

 

[davey7]

Here's the inside (I think I may have a better picture).

 

[maytagmark]

Looks great for its age,1970's, New units here with the salt air look like that after just a couple of years, Didn't mean to scare you about the capacitor,just use caution,There is a way to discharge the capacitor, or you can use insulated handle pliers if you need to remove a connector from the cap.,I would take the cover off the terminal on the compressor and inspect the wiring and also remove the control panel and inspect the wiring there, if you have a bad connector it is easy and cheap to fix. If you have questions I can guide you through it.

 

[philr]

I wish I had one like it!

I hope you'll be able to repair it.

 

[stevet]

A Frigidaire by any other name ....

would probably be a Fedders unit. Looks identical to the many 5-9000 BTU Fedders units of the 60's thru 80's. I had many of them like this one and they were all built like yours and looked the same as the one pictured. If the unit is in the wall, then you need to make sure that the condenser is clean and the air can flow thru it easily. Looking at the back grille, the right side would have louvers that pull the air thru to the fan and over the compressor, cooling the compressor and then the condenser. If the condenser plugs up with dirt, then there would not be enough air to cool the compressor nor the condenser and the unit will not cool well and the compressor can overheat and cut in and out. Hopefully the burning smell is something simple as some of the guys have already mentioned and some simple maintenance will solve your problems. On the same note, make sure that the evaporator is clean too. After all these years, they can get clogged up with dust even with the filters in place.

 

[davey7]

Thanks for the advice - I need to get cracking on this project, the heat is projected to return soon. At least I have two other units which work. Mark - do you think this unit is actually that new (i.e. 1970's)?

I had the brilliant future plan of hiding a split unit with ducts in the closet, which also has a plumbing stack for a drain line, between the dining room and living room (this unit lives in my dining room) which would cool both rooms better, be quieter, and enable me to seal up the opening for this unit keeping the room warmer in winter. I could even run a line to the only other room which doesn't have some kind of air conditioning.

 

[2packs4sure]

It's very repairable

You can buy a new R22 1.5 ton compressor that would just drop right in.

Run capacitors rarely hold a charge but just short it with a screwdriver to be safe.

It won't spark!

You need to pop the cover off the compressor and make sure the wires are connected and not burned off.

If the wires look good unplug them and take an ohmmeter and check each terminal to ground for shorts ( The Copper Suction Line) , if you get continuity to ground anywhere the compressor is shorted.

It could be a burned wire anywhere that came loose and made contact with the chassis.

A new copeland 1.5 ton R22 recipricating compressor is going to cost around $400.00.

Since it's already out of the wall call an A/C company just to come out and do the basic checks, you might get lucky.

Tell them it's out of the wall and has a standard copeland r22 A/C compressor.

 

[davey7]

2packs4sure - that sounds like what I suspect happened and what it sounded like last season. I'll have to pull it out again, I couldn't have the big hole just open there.

stevet - I'll post some more photos. The pictures show the condenser full of newspaper.

 

[davey7]

So finally after eight years....

So eight years later.... He finally tries to get the AC unit going due to working from home.

I thought I had a brilliant idea and that the vent knob was shorting out the air (it's metal rather than plastic). Nope, I started it up with the cover off with a plastic knob and there was a quick spark in the evaporator fins. As in a visible spark though it didn't trip the breaker.

Is the opinion still, would it be, to fix it or should I think about replacing the beast?

 

[stevet]

Pull the control panel out

And check inside that compartment. There are no wires inside or behind the evaporator. They are only behind the controls. It is very possible that there is a broken connector and it is shorting on something or on another wire. Just remove the control panel gently and you should immediately see what is going on. Having tried it a few times, what ever was shorting out may have burned up or broke the shorted connection and now won't trip the breaker but not allow the unit to run.

Come to think of it, the linkage for the vent was a metal curly-cue piece of wire and it may have moved and is causing the short too. I bet once you fix that up, the A/C will turn right on and start cooling. If, of course there is still any refrigerant in it. Believe it or not, based on the technology and energy standards of that period, many of those A/C's were considered efficient and had EER's of 8-9.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[davey7]

Thanks, I'll have to check that - I'm paranoid after having read about the capacitors, etc.

Yeah, I think they cool effectively and reasonably efficiently.

 

[davey7]

Yeah, so another year goes by and he does nothing....

So I'm having a house guest in a couple weeks and I decided, what with our hot weather and all, that I would try to get my big front AC unit going again.

So I pulled it, got the control panel open and didn't see anything obvious. Then I put it back together, after a little blow to dust and some vacuuming in the chassis.

Then I plugged it in before putting it back in the wall and lo, the fan worked. So I turned it off, shoved it back in the wall and tried the cooling and it seemed to kick in. But then it seemed to short out, although the fan kept working. I'll try it again later, but I noticed that when I plugged it in, there was sort of a crackle across the coils - which I don't think should happen when you plug in an air conditioner that is turned off.

I'm wondering if there is a problem with the house wiring - it's just two wires in metal raceway to the receptacle (it was added on at some point, probably the 70's). The surface mounted wall box was loose, so I turned off power and tightened it, thinking the ground might be loose - however, I don't think that it should need to be grounded (not that I don't need grounding, but that if it's working correctly it won't be shorting) when it's running correctly.

I'll try it once more, but I'm not sure it's worth repairing if there is a weird short somewhere. There are slightly smaller output units that will fit in the sleeve - similar output units are slightly larger and would need a bigger sleeve and my walls are masonry - hassle!

So any advice oh great sages of vintage air conditioning?

 

[viewsaver]

Please find someone with a volt/ohm meter and have them troubleshoot the unit's wiring. Either a wire has rubbed through and is shorting out, or the compressor windings have faulted to ground. It shouldn't be making ANY crackling noises at any time and it's likely not the fault of the wiring to the wall plug. It's possible the capacitor has failed and shorted to the case but the fan probably wouldn't run either because the fan and compressor share the capacitor (it has two sections in the "can").

Even with a faulted compressor the unit is fixable. New units of similar capacity today are garbage except for maybe the Friedrich (not the Kuhl or Chill series). Just quit playing around with it before you burn it up or electrocute yourself. 230V is nothing to play around with as you'll be dead before you hit the floor.

Chris

 

[davey7]

I've got a guy coming to look at it next week - we'll see what he diagnoses.

 

[davey7]

So... bad news

I got somebody in to check the unit, unfortunately the compressor connections are shot and the compressor costs as much as a new unit. While it's in good shape otherwise, the math won't work out for me, so it's off to Abt to buy a Frigidaire (or maybe a Friedrich uni-fit...).

Since I plan to sell in a couple years, a newer unit will be better for that as well.

 

[turbokinetic]

<span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">_{If the compressor terminal connections are bad, there is a product which will connect to damaged pins. Search "QWIKLUG QT2910 3 TERMINAL REPAIR LUGS" or see here:}https://www.amazon.com/QwikLug-QT2910-Terminal-Repair-10AWG/dp/B00T1UN430 </span>

<span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">That will help you reconnect the wiring.</span>

 

[turbokinetic]

There is a product which will allow you to connect to damaged pins on a compressor. These may help you get it going.&#92

https://www.amazon.com/QwikLug-QT2910-Terminal-Repair-10AWG/dp/B00T1UN430

They are called Qwik Lugs.

 

[davey7]

Thanks, but it's been replaced

It turned out that the chassis was a lot rustier than I'd realized, which I noticed when I carted it out. I'm happy with a new unit that I won't have to worry about for a while, since I don't use ac all that much.

 

[davey7]

So revisiting this thread for another of my air conditioners

So the fan on one of my other vintage AC units seems to have failed. It hums when turned out and I pulled the AC and lubricated the fan, which spins more easily now, but still not action. The compressor kicks in just fine. Cleaned it obviously, got rid of 40 years of gunk and wasps nests etc, etc...

I'd like to replace the motor but I'm not sure what model I need to get - it's a 230 V Fridgidaire (I've included a couple pictures with model number). It looks like there are two and three speed fans but not sure which one is compatible (it's fan, low AC and high AC). I can't read any label on the fan, it's either deteriorated or fallen off.