Vintage Air Conditioners. The Holy Grail of vintage appliances?

[yogitunes]

This is where it paid to date someone in the A/C field........

10,000BTU is still 10,000BTU.......but allowing you to use its full potential is what energy saving is all about......

lets take a easier step to understand....central air is controlled by a numbered thermostat.....you would normally have it at 72 degrees...but to save energy you could turn it up to 74 degrees....not so much colder, but you save energy by raising the temp......on a window unit, all you mostly get is a number of 1 to 10, 10 being coldest, now the manufacturers, from behind the control panel, have raised the lowest temp available to only about the number 8, even though you selected 10, air is cool and comfortable, but you may want it a bit colder, now you have run out of selection, and the compressor won't come on until the room warms up.....but from behind the control panel is the thermostat, with a little screw, that can make that machine cool the room to a lower temp......and now you have complete control of how much energy it uses, and how cold you want the room to be......

think of this adjustment that we do to many washing machines water level....the manufacturer didn't make the machine use less energy, all they did was dub down the hot water mixture, and lower the water level....like having a super capacity machine, that only allows you to wash 3/4 size of a load, raising the water level allows you control of washing a full machines potential load.....look at the new Speed Queen TL, 3.3 cu ft tub, but from the manufacturers set water level, you cannot wash a 3.3 cu ft load.....more like 2.5....but theres potential to raise the water level and achieve a 3.3 cu ft load washed effectively....

I have a feeling you guys need to see a pic of a thermostat of one of my machines....I have 2 newer A/C's that now cool the rooms as effectively as the machines they replaced from the 70's...at first they did not...

 

[austinado16]

I'm familiar with those t-stats and I suspect they are similar to what's used in automotive a/c systems......which I have adjusted, as you describe.

Interesting info, and I think the next time I trip over a fake wood grain window A/C unit at a yard sale or the swap meet, I'm going to buy it, just to bring it home and compare it to my 1999 Kenmore 10,000btu 110v unit.

 

[DADoES]

Window unit thermostats are of three types: 1) bi-metal (a little 5.5K BTU Friedrich I have uses this type); 2) capillary; 3) electronic/thermistor on "modern" units.

Capillary type is most common on older units and up until electronics came into play. It functions similarly to a water level switch, and like many oven thermostats. A sealed tube is filled with a temperature-sensitive gas (or liquid) which expands/contracts to exert pressure on a diaphram to trigger the switch contacts. The usual temperature range (or it was in the past when I was working in the business) is about 60°F to 90°F, which puts 75°F at mid-position. My grandmother's 16K BTU Friedrich heat/cool unit bought in 2004 seems to fit that range. She's rather cold-natured so doesn't need much air conditioning, 78° to 80°F is all she can take without complaining about being too chilled, which is around "10:30AM" on the dial.

 

[3beltwesty]

Some of us pay our electric bills and have watthour meters o

RE "I DONT!! Buy into the notion that the old AC s are energy hogs, you get what you pay for, ice cold air is worth more than something running all the time and doing a marginal job, the old ones, like old refrigerators are quieter colder and last much longer, to my mind there is no comparison. "

There is low law that says one cannot still drive a car that gets 8u miles per gallon; or use a 1970 AC that has an EER of 5 to 6.

If the device is not used much; the loss in cash is not much.

Here in the deep south, an 18,000 BTUH window unit with an EER of 10 can burn 100 bucks worth of juice in August. If you want to use a 1970 unit with an ERR of 5, you just pay 100 bucks extra here. Since money matters here, the lossy old AC or lossy corroded AC is often thrown in the trash, or sold as scrap. One buys a modern AC and it pays for itself in one hot season.

If the same 1970 AC is in a cabin in Minnesota, maybe it only runs a few weekends a year. Thus the unit's lossy ways do not matter since one really hardly uses them at all.

Yet another late 1960's 2x4' AC unit in the ceiling tiles here is a total HOG for electrical usage. I have TWO of these dinos that have not been used in years. The 2nd one has two AC 230 volt fans, one for the condenser, one for the evaporator. The 15,000 BTU beast weights about 280 Lbs. The wiring used is #8 wire. Unit #2 had an EER of 4 in 1968, thus that 15,000 BTUH drew 3750 watts, ie with all the inductive motors the amp draw is about 25 to 30 amps at 230 volts. At start the amps locked rotor are about 100 to 120 thus it has #8 wire. Thus #2 unit has a watthour meter connected to it too. To run this in the summer is about 50 cents an hour, ie 12 bucks a day. To run it all the time for one month burns up over 300 dollars, BUT it is such a corroded mess that its actual heat transfer is only about 1/2. Thus to run this obsolete beast 1 month today costs over 300 bucks and one really just gets about 7500 BTUH. In its place is a split AC that runs on just 120 volts and puts out 14,000 BTUH with just about 1000 watts. The new unit just is about 6 to 8 times more efficient than the old worn out beast. The new unit cycles and thus its 14,000 BTUH keeps the one room cold and it shuts off. The old unit with its 1968 ERR of 4 and half its coils now mush cannot keep up on a HOT DAY.

The savings for a business like mine are actually way better since I have demand meters. On a mild day both the old Unit#2 and new split can "keep up"; ie the old units 7500 BTUH is enough.

BUT on a mild day running the old beast makes the demand increase by 4 Kw; the new one by just 1 Kw. The added 3Kw of using the obsolete AC not only burns more kilowatts, it throws my bill into a higher rate structure. It adds to all my other items. Thus running that beast is not just an kilowatt increase; it is a rate column increase.

If I run both old 2x4 ceiling AC's from the 1960s; the extra demand is 8Kw versus just 2 of running the modern mini spits.

Yet another reason is that during Hurricane season; the modern 14,000 BTUH mini splits will run off a moderate generator. The ceiling units require a generator about 5 times larger to start just one.

If both 1960's 2x4' ceiling units are run "for old times sake"; the amp draw is 50 to 60 amps at 230 volts, to get just about 15,000 BTUH, thus somewhat nuts.

Here I have actual watthour meters on my AC units. During the summer the majority of the cost is due to AC units. If I ran all the old AC units "for old times sake"; I would have a 1400 buck bill versus a 600 buck ac bill at my business. Thus turning off the 1960's ac and using a modern mini split is not a hard decision if it saves one 400 per month per room.

Here I have tools and devices that are energy efficient to total hogs too. I tend to use the hogs less if there is to be many hours of usage.

 

[3beltwesty]

AC EER numbers from 1998; even todays machines beat these nu

Here is some data for some new AC units of 1998

5000 BTUH EER 7* 115 volts 7.8 amps

5900 BTUH EER 8 115 volts 7.0 amps

8000 BTUH EER 9 115 volts 8 amps

12000 BTUH EER 8 115 volts 14 amps

18000 BTUH EER 9 230 volts 9.7 amps

21000 BTUH EER 8.0 230 volts 12.4 amps

25000 BTUH EER 8.0 230 volts 16.5 amps

In some states the rule of a minimum of 8 was not in effect at first below a certain BTUH level. Thus in these states one would see sub EER 8 units, ie 6 to 7 ish even until a decade ago. In the same late 1990's era 1990 sears/whirlpool had a EER 10.5 5200 BTUH unit I got. One paid 130 bucks for a better EER versus 85 for the then made in usa ac of the 1970's EER level.

 

[3beltwesty]

EERR/SEER increases versus the decades

When energy was cheaper many 1970's window units I have seen the specs were in the 6 range. A friends cabin had a 8000 BTUH unit with an EER of 6 and it was an early 1970's unit.

The split AC unit on my California apartment built in 1971 was a 1.5 ton R22 unit, ie 18,000 BTUH. It drew about exactly 2800 watts, thus the BTUH/watts= 6.4

A gulf coast 5 ton AC split unit here from 1970 had an EER of about 7

A gulf coast 5 ton AC split unit here from 1985 has an EER of about 8.5 (it still works and is was called super high efficiency unit back in 1985)

A gulf coast 5 ton AC split unit here from 1992 has an EER of about 10.0

Today one cannot even buy a unit with a SEER rating below 13.

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

The tag on the Packard Bell shows a 3/4 hp compressor so that's about 7500 btu's.

The entire unit on a hot day pulls 10.6 amps.

I'm pretty sure that this unit is late 40's to very early 50's.

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

amps

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

controls

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

Without the wood cabinet.

The evaporator blower is a four bladed fan, not a squirrel cage.

 

[3beltwesty]

Nice unit

Your machine looks like a nice roomy machine to restore. I guess it has the typical horizontal AC fan motor with two long shafts with a 4 bladed fan at each end. ie one for evaporator, one for condenser. My mid 1980's 8000 BTUH Sears/ Whirlpool is like this and same R22 too.

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

No, 2 seperate motors..

The evap fan is in its own chamber where it can pull air through the filter at the bottom or pull in outside air through a small door that opens on the side.

 

[2packs4sure]

Packard Bell

The condenser fan blade has a outer ring around the blades.

The condenser itself is the only part of the unit that has really deteriorated.

 

[toggleswitch]

ah a paint-roller pad cover.I dont think I have seen one cel

By the way my painter has informed me that the BEST pant brushes are CHINESE... It's human hair. And that the best paint rollers are lamb's wool and are usually from Greece. (FEH the Greeks know about sheep I have been told). LOL

Quote: At Mom's house I have a 30,000 BTU unit, cools the entire house, only runs for a few minutes every hour in auto setting. This unit is very loud, but better to run for a few loud minutes than having several 5,000 to 7,000 BTU units in every room running all the time.......my electric bill is never over $80 in the summer months.....

You may have a slow meter.

An over-sized air-condtioner gives you a cold and clammy room/house; it doesn't run enough to dehumidify.

A better solution is, IMHO get a 5,000 BTU/h unit to supplement the big one and let it run full-time. The litle one will dehumidify (while cooling "a little") and the big one will cycle off and and off to keep the place cool, temperture-wise.

 

[3beltwesty]

Thanks for the Photos showing the 2 motors

Your rear motor ie "The condenser fan blade has a outer ring around the blades." is the same as my 8000 BTUH whirlpool and actually a brand new old stock 18000 unit too; but they also extend the shaft to drive the front fan blade too.

Today's 5000 BTUH units have tyoically about the same looking "outer ring around the blades" hole too; but the front is a squirrel cage fan blade.

Your outside condensor looks like some of mine that have been used for 1 or 2 seasons, but I have salt water in my backyard. A vacuuming can help the airflow. There is extra/reserve fin area when an ac unit is built, many designs still work Ok with alot gone. If you are too aggressive and use water spray, sometimes the fins get bent or crap goes deeper into the fins. Your units fins looks perfect compared to the two units I have in the ceiling from 1968, you can push your fingers thru and the vac pulls out entire sections. A typical modern window AC unit here often has thin fins, both the new GE and Maytag 5200 BTUH units I got in the fall of 2005 looked worse than yours when they were scrapped about 2008.

An ideal way for an AC unit here where humidity is high is to have stages of AC units, ie variable displacement. Thus if one really only needs 8000 BTUH at night; a cycling unit with 12000 capacity can keep a house at 70 F; or a 5 ton 60,000 BTUH unit too. The little guy that runs longer will pull out more water.

 

[3beltwesty]

Evil trip to boost EER that degrades the fins quicker here

Some units 3 to 5 year old units *here* that "look ok" from the outside and when opened to oil the motor are found to be "so far gone" that one doesnt attempt to fix them; they go into the dumpster or recycle bin.

The fins are 1/2 gone on the high efficency units.

One has an evil combo of salt air, hot temperature and water constantly being splashed on the fins.

To drop the cost and keep the EER decent the exit fan blades scoop up the condensed water and thrown it at the condensers fins.

This makes the thermal cycle better, but at least here makes the fins corrode quicker. If one punches a hole and lets the water drain and not pool the fins will last longer here, but the EER is less.

One may notice how small some of the 5000 type AC units are today, the small package uses less copper tubing too, thin fins makes the fins here like a FRONT LOADERS ALUMINUM SPIDER, ie they corrode away.

In dry Los Angeles with only 10 inches of rain per year; the same 100 buck 5200BTUH Chinese window unit might 5 decades, here often it is several years

 

[kimball455]

Large Cabinet Commercial AC units

I remember those huge usually Carrier or York units being installed in the 1950 in restaurants and bars here in Cape May.'The Shore Bar, now AIR CONDITIONED for your comfort'. Water was not metered and in many cases it simply went through the condenser and down the drain. The first AC unit at the post office had the classic wood slat water tower. The opened in 1950 Beach Theatre claimed to be the first air conditioned theatre south of Atlantic City. I had several window units in my Victorian but replaced everything with mini splits a few years ago. Don't have to cool the entire house on many days in summer here at the shore but want the bedrooms to be cool and dry. The mini splits give me the zoning capability to do that. Boardwalk Hall Atlantic City now gets its chilled water for AC from a 17,000 ton central plant that also supplies several of the casinos with both steam and chilled water.

 

[3beltwesty]

RE "Water was not metered

RE "Water was not metered and in many cases it simply went through the condenser and down the drain."

I think what you are saying is they cooled the condenser with free water from the city's water supply .

The house I live in now did not have a water meter until roughly 1976, before that totally unmetered.

My dad's house he grew up in the 1920's had a water powdered washing machine driven by a water motor. it was a Coffield, made in Dayton Ohio.

Their slogan was "THE FAUCET WORKS IT, YOU DON'T TURN IT!"

 

[yogitunes]

Toggles.....

I know what your saying about the humidity level, and I thought about the unit being overkill for the size of the house.......but first the unit is placed in regular fan mode when first turned on, after the rooms and surroundings have cooled, then it is placed in AUTO, and maintains moisture and coolness very well, I was suprised....my main concern for a large unit was Mom cooks alot, and usually large meals, and canning during the summer, and I wanted something to be able to handle the extra heat from the stove, if needed.....there are 12,000BTU units in her bedroom and in mine if I wanted to cycle units around, but their mainly used at night before bed to really chill down the rooms for sleep, and then turned off for the rest of the night......so far everything has been at a comfortable level...

 

[rstacey1990]

Sudsmaster and 2packs4sure, do you guys have photos of the outsides of these units by any chance? im curious as to what they look like from the outside. I own a 1955 GE so i may be able to help you figure out the settings providing the knobs are the same. this looks to be even older than mine! im thinking 1954at the latest. and as for that Packard Bell, thats a very interesting one as well. 2 fan motors!? thats most definitly early 50's, and perhaps, like you said, 1940's.

This thread is filled with awesome units. Nice Chrysler Airtemp too! as well as the GE, Coldspot, and any others i forgot to mention. they just dont make them like they used to.